VewyPhishy - fake cigars

[grateful1]

Sorry that was kinda long.

You don't get to use that phrase often, huh!








:sign:

 

[MX]

Sorry that was kinda long.

You don't get to use that phrase often, huh!








:sign:

......no

tim

 

[sinnyc]

I love lamp.



One of the many reasons I chose CP over many other cigar-related sites is because of threads like this. When a problem arises here that cannot be satisfactorily settled in private it is brought out in to the open. This sort of community based self-policing can get messy, sidetracked, and drawn out but the issues do eventually get settled. Former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" and I agree. That's what's happening here; this issue has been opened up for all to see and when a resolution is reached, everyone in the community will know what happened, why, and how.

I hope this all gets worked out between the seller and buyers. But I'm really impressed by the offers to "make things right" in the event it doesn't. These examples of generosity and community-oriented spirit are really great to see and reaffirm my happiness with Cigar Pass. Good on ya for the offers!

Here's hoping everyone stays calm and an equitable solution is reached.

- Tim

 

[flamchop]

I love lamp.



One of the many reasons I chose CP over many other cigar-related sites is because of threads like this. When a problem arises here that cannot be satisfactorily settled in private it is brought out in to the open. This sort of community based self-policing can get messy, sidetracked, and drawn out but the issues do eventually get settled. Former U.S. Supreme Court Justice Louis Brandeis said "Sunlight is the best disinfectant" and I agree. That's what's happening here; this issue has been opened up for all to see and when a resolution is reached, everyone in the community will know what happened, why, and how.

I hope this all gets worked out between the seller and buyers. But I'm really impressed by the offers to "make things right" in the event it doesn't. These examples of generosity and community-oriented spirit are really great to see and reaffirm my happiness with Cigar Pass. Good on ya for the offers!

Here's hoping everyone stays calm and an equitable solution is reached.

- Tim

Just want to say X2 on that. I could not have said it better myself. Especially I love lamp.

 

[Kingantz]

I decided to go ahead and put fire to one of the Sublimes I received from Michael, curiosity getting the best of me as I really want to know for sure if it is the real thing or not. I measured the cigar’s length right at 6 ½” and the ring gauge between 52 and 54. The head was actually smaller than the foot. I punched the cap with the largest RG on my knife, and as I pulled the cap away, bits of tobacco fell on my laptop. I took a pre-light draw and it tasted much like how plain white paper smells. Not good.

I torched the foot and it lit very quickly, took a couple quick puffs and a long draw. There was plenty of smoke that came through, however it was extremely bland and way mild, basically like drawing air that had a slight sweetness to it. I took several more draws thinking maybe it just needed a little time to get going, however it stayed the same. No flavor at all that I could detect.

After about a quarter inch, I set it down and once the fire was out and the cigar cooled, I began dissecting the specimen. With wrapper off, then binder, what I found inside was even worse than that what was in the Double Corona previously dissected. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Link to the album

 

[NullSmurf]

Strange. First thing that came to mind is "Toledo Windowbox". Awright, you old fuggers!

 

[DirtyDave]

30 User(s) are reading this topic (1 Guests and 5 Anonymous Users)

I really hope that those out there in the gallery are watching for the right reasons. This thread is a great teaching point.
If you look and read closely, it cuts right down to the true fabric of what Cigar Pass is all about.
Our (The Cigar Pass) collective azimuth may stray a few degrees to either side, but as a community we are still running true to course.
This is a very bad a nd tense situation indeed, but if you look at what has happened you will see the character of our membership, and more importantly our "leadership"

There was an issue between 2 members that could not be worked out on a man to man level.
It was brought to the attention of the Official and unofficial leadership of CP.
After review and discussion it was brought to the public
all parties involved have been, and will be given the opportunity to make their case.
and while this will end how it will, and no true "justice" or compensation can be forced, all those involved will see that in the end, they are sorted out in a manor that best reflects there situation.

The process works, I have seen it.

Everyone reading, and viewing this thread should take the time to see what is really going on here. It is nothing short than the true cycle and spirit of family.

Sorry that was kinda long.

Tim

This is one major reason I keep checking back. I'm a complete newb to this forum so I've been really interested in how this plays out, but didn't want to contribute do to my lack of tenure.

I've been very impressed with the way this has been handled despite the sensitive subject matter. It has been a very informative thread. Here's to a great community and hopes of a proper rectification!

 

[moki]

I decided to go ahead and put fire to one of the Sublimes I received from Michael, curiosity getting the best of me as I really want to know for sure if it is the real thing or not. I measured the cigar’s length right at 6 ½” and the ring gauge between 52 and 54. The head was actually smaller than the foot. I punched the cap with the largest RG on my knife, and as I pulled the cap away, bits of tobacco fell on my laptop. I took a pre-light draw and it tasted much like how plain white paper smells. Not good.

I torched the foot and it lit very quickly, took a couple quick puffs and a long draw. There was plenty of smoke that came through, however it was extremely bland and way mild, basically like drawing air that had a slight sweetness to it. I took several more draws thinking maybe it just needed a little time to get going, however it stayed the same. No flavor at all that I could detect.

After about a quarter inch, I set it down and once the fire was out and the cigar cooled, I began dissecting the specimen. With wrapper off, then binder, what I found inside was even worse than that what was in the Double Corona previously dissected. I'll let the pictures do the talking.

Just to add to this for everyone's edification... I had a similar issue come up like this years ago. I dissected a fake Cohiba Reserva along with a real Cohiba Reserva (same vitola). Here's what they looked like.

Authentic Cohiba Reserva: This was constructed as you'd expect, wrapper, concentrically followed by binder, followed by numerous long filler leaf that had been folded accordion-style, each piece of filler leaf making a different part of the blend.

Fake Cohiba Reserva: This exhibited construction similar to other fake Cubans I've dissected, wrapper, concentrically followed by binder, concentrically followed by numerous wrappings of "filler", which was wrapped and wrapped again to make up the bulk of the cigar, and then inside, short filler.

I think it's instructive to see them side by side in terms of what it should look like vs. what a fake with plenty of short filler inside looks like. Also note that there are fakes with long filler in 'em too... this is just another nail in the coffin.

This ugly-ass diagram also shows off what I've often, but not always, found in fake Cuban cigars. The reason there are so many concentric rolls of tobacco in many fakes is that they don't have the cigar molds to use for proper sizing, so they just keep wrapping the filler around the cigar until it's about the right size:

http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-463

 

[juandiablo]

Thanks for posting those pics moki I had no idea what a real and a fake dissection look like.

 

[amateuraficionado]

Jeezus H. Chrise my head is spinning from reading this thread!!! Greg and Robbie, this really freakin' sucks guys but I'm sure you both know that this will be made right one way or the other. It's just how this place is!

So funny that these cigars should come into question. Back in December a member from another board was selling some Sublimes for a price that was, let's just say, one hell of a deal!! I sent a message and inquired where they came from. I got a reply ten days later basically to the tune of, 'well I guess you don't want them huh?' I responded that I never heard back from him so I assumed they were all sold. I told him I was still interested but once again inquired about the source because of the incredible pricing. What I received was a two paragraph rant about basically what a jerk I was for questioning the authenticity of his cigars, much akin to Mike's response regarding his sticks. He proceeded to insult me and go so far as to leave a negative trader comment because of my inquiry, which he actually completely lied about. For a while I questioned whether what I did was right or wrong given this member's tenure on this other board. I cannot attest to the authenticity of his cigars one way or the other but, this incident has completely reaffirmed for me that I handled the situation properly.

 

[Shamrocker]

I think it's instructive to see them side by side in terms of what it should look like vs. what a fake with plenty of short filler inside looks like. Also note that there are fakes with long filler in 'em too... this is just another nail in the coffin.

This ugly-ass diagram also shows off what I've often, but not always, found in fake Cuban cigars. The reason there are so many concentric rolls of tobacco in many fakes is that they don't have the cigar molds to use for proper sizing, so they just keep wrapping the filler around the cigar until it's about the right size:

http://www.vitolas.net/displayimage.php?pos=-463

Thank you both, moki and Kingantz for the pictures. And thank you to the other BOTLs and SOTLs who have provided examples of fakes compared to the genuine specimens. It made me grab a few of my CCs out of the humidor for a little inspection.

Cheers!

 

[souldog]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been constructive...

 

[Kingantz]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been destructive...

Fixed that for ya Jon...

 

[badhangover]

So funny that these cigars should come into question. Back in December a member from another board was selling some Sublimes for a price that was, let's just say, one hell of a deal!! I sent a message and inquired where they came from. I got a reply ten days later basically to the tune of, 'well I guess you don't want them huh?' I responded that I never heard back from him so I assumed they were all sold. I told him I was still interested but once again inquired about the source because of the incredible pricing. What I received was a two paragraph rant about basically what a jerk I was for questioning the authenticity of his cigars, much akin to Mike's response regarding his sticks. He proceeded to insult me and go so far as to leave a negative trader comment because of my inquiry, which he actually completely lied about. For a while I questioned whether what I did was right or wrong given this member's tenure on this other board. I cannot attest to the authenticity of his cigars one way or the other but, this incident has completely reaffirmed for me that I handled the situation properly.

Private sales can be a mo'fo, indeed. Your (non sale) experience with that other person does sound horrible on their part. Still, FWIW, I never reveal my sources to those I perceive to be new at this and are considering purchasing CC's from me. I just don't care for someone who recently signed up PM'ing me and saying to the effect: "Sure, I'll buy those from you.... but where did you buy them yourself?" I feel it's a backdoor attempt to glean sources in what is an otherwise perfectly acceptable arena to make that query. People rightfully want to trust in their purchase. I try not to be rude about declining to reveal the respective source. But, honestly, if the person is new to this hobby then it shouldn't matter to them where it is sourced from - as they are highly unlikely to recognize the source and the general history and consensus of that source's reputation. On the other hand, if it's someone I know from experience (or bumping into each other through the years on CC centric cigar boards), I have no problem providing full details of provenance.

By the way, I'm not calling you new. I don't know if you are or not. Unknown to me is a close kin to new, and that often occurs when one participates in several online communities or even just one large one. Can't very well know everyone.

 

[SPIVY]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been constructive...

No need for this. Now start passing out those Bolivar Platinum Medals. :laugh: Or better yet I have a guy who knows a guy who can get Silver and Bronze Medals.

 

[Kingantz]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been DEstructive...

No need for this. Now start passing out those Bolivar Platinum Medals. :laugh:

Okay, what's this I keep hearing about....Bolis???

 

[SPIVY]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been DEstructive...

No need for this. Now start passing out those Bolivar Platinum Medals. :laugh:

Okay, what's this I keep hearing about....Bolis???

Speaking of Bolivars...I can't wait for the Elegantes...I am just trying to add a little light to this thread. :laugh:

 

[Kingantz]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been DEstructive...

No need for this. Now start passing out those Bolivar Platinum Medals. :laugh:

Okay, what's this I keep hearing about....Bolis???

Speaking of Bolivars...I can't wait for the Elegantes...I am just trying to add a little light to this thread. :laugh:

Me n' you both brotha! Those things look.....elegant!

 

[amateuraficionado]

So funny that these cigars should come into question. Back in December a member from another board was selling some Sublimes for a price that was, let's just say, one hell of a deal!! I sent a message and inquired where they came from. I got a reply ten days later basically to the tune of, 'well I guess you don't want them huh?' I responded that I never heard back from him so I assumed they were all sold. I told him I was still interested but once again inquired about the source because of the incredible pricing. What I received was a two paragraph rant about basically what a jerk I was for questioning the authenticity of his cigars, much akin to Mike's response regarding his sticks. He proceeded to insult me and go so far as to leave a negative trader comment because of my inquiry, which he actually completely lied about. For a while I questioned whether what I did was right or wrong given this member's tenure on this other board. I cannot attest to the authenticity of his cigars one way or the other but, this incident has completely reaffirmed for me that I handled the situation properly.

Private sales can be a mo'fo, indeed. Your (non sale) experience with that other person does sound horrible on their part. Still, FWIW, I never reveal my sources to those I perceive to be new at this and are considering purchasing CC's from me. I just don't care for someone who recently signed up PM'ing me and saying to the effect: "Sure, I'll buy those from you.... but where did you buy them yourself?" I feel it's a backdoor attempt to glean sources in what is an otherwise perfectly acceptable arena to make that query. People rightfully want to trust in their purchase. I try not to be rude about declining to reveal the respective source. But, honestly, if the person is new to this hobby then it shouldn't matter to them where it is sourced from - as they are highly unlikely to recognize the source and the general history and consensus of that source's reputation. On the other hand, if it's someone I know from experience (or bumping into each other through the years on CC centric cigar boards), I have no problem providing full details of provenance.

By the way, I'm not calling you new. I don't know if you are or not. Unknown to me is a close kin to new, and that often occurs when one participates in several online communities or even just one large one. Can't very well know everyone.

I completely agree, and actually adhere to those same practices myself. The problem for me was just that, in the way he responded. New is however a relative term. I am indeed relatively new to the hobby but would also be likely to recognize several sources, some well known and others not as much, as well as some general history and consensus on reputation. Did I expect him to actually disclose the source? No, I really didn't. What I was looking for was merely some reassurance of authenticity. I've posed this same question to a few old timers on this and other boards when making purchases and have always had my concerns respectfully quelled. If these were regular production cigars I would've never even inquired but, being that they were what they were, at the price they were being offered, I felt at least some due diligence was warranted.

 

[pembroke3355]

Wow! Mike I'm really offended by your words and actions here. Is this what you think CP is about? Do you really think I would bamboozle you over a couple of cigars? Mike please respond because I feel an apology is owed.

And you know this because of your long and enduring tenure here, correct? We're ALL newbies here dude... Just have some respect, you're already winning in this argument, so just keep quiet and wait to see what happens.

Wheelin' and dealin' so much can get you fakes once in a while, okay? Does it suck? Sure does. I've had friends who don't get their money back and the original seller was banned. Them's the ways it goes sometimes. For now, just sit and wait, it'll pan itself out, instead of thrashing about everytime a new development comes in. If all else fails, you can give the fakes to SPIVY since he likes reviewing them. :laugh:

Souldog my post was a question to Mike since this is the only way I can contact him. Why you needed to chime in with your infinite wisdom is beyond me

Oh come now Miami, you'll be okay. No need to throw a fit. :laugh: Brent had some good advice. I notice Greg has been DEstructive...

No need for this. Now start passing out those Bolivar Platinum Medals. :laugh:

Okay, what's this I keep hearing about....Bolis???

Speaking of Bolivars...I can't wait for the Elegantes...I am just trying to add a little light to this thread. :laugh:

Me n' you both brotha! Those things look.....elegant!

Cough cough Boli whore. :laugh: