VewyPhishy - fake cigars

[siriusstoogie]

There will be plenty of people that will offer to make this right, if Mike chooses not to.

Correct. I have both the Sublimes and the DC ELs, and I will make it right if Michael chooses not to or ignores the issue.

Greg and Robbie, this really freakin' sucks guys but I'm sure you both know that this will be made right one way or the other. It's just how this place is!

Am I the only one that has a concern with this??

While I appreciate your generosity, Moki, I think it sets a dangerous example. The risk for entering into a transaction of this nature MUST rest with the buyer. If there's no risk, what's to keep the next person from buying cigars they know nothing about if the expectation is that "someone" on here will make it right. amateuraficionado's response implies that he already has this expectaion -- after all, "it's how this place is!"

Don't get me wrong. I know this a community and we look out for each other, but I also firmly believe that we need to take personal responsibility and begin to look out for ourselves at some point. If we handle purchases with the expectation that there is a safety net in place, what's to keep anyone and everyone from climbing onto the tight wire and trying to make it across the crevasse? Some folks need to fall and get hurt in order to ensure only those who are adequately trained should try to make the crossing. (Sorry for the piss poor example, but I hope it makes the point...)

If we want to go down this route, then maybe we need to look at revamping the Cigar Pass Insurance program to cover personal buys. If you do a lot of buying/selling, you may need to pony up to cover your risks.

Interesting take but these are acts of brotherliness/kindness not condoning Mike's wrong. And to your last point (highlighted), this is how Credit Default Swaps got started

 

[tone-ny]

Steve this has been done before, it is just a way of making up for someone not owning up to his debt or obligation. Especially, during Secret Santa and other like events. I don't think it happens that often, but others have stepped up and made things right.

This one was a little different in that Mike refused to take any responsibility. He basically said you guys don't know what you are talking about so how you can dispute the cigars I sent you. He also made a call about their character by saying maybe they confused the cigars he sent with bogus ones they had. So he made it seem like he was beyond reproach and these guys are wrong.

Bottom line he had a chance to make it right, he chose to say it wasn't of his making and bug off. Moki is just doing what he does on an on going basis, PIF.

 

[bfreebern]

Anyone know how to contact him?

 

[moki]

Am I the only one that has a concern with this??

While I appreciate your generosity, Moki, I think it sets a dangerous example. The risk for entering into a transaction of this nature MUST rest with the buyer. If there's no risk, what's to keep the next person from buying cigars they know nothing about if the expectation is that "someone" on here will make it right. amateuraficionado's response implies that he already has this expectaion -- after all, "it's how this place is!"

Don't get me wrong. I know this a community and we look out for each other, but I also firmly believe that we need to take personal responsibility and begin to look out for ourselves at some point. If we handle purchases with the expectation that there is a safety net in place, what's to keep anyone and everyone from climbing onto the tight wire and trying to make it across the crevasse? Some folks need to fall and get hurt in order to ensure only those who are adequately trained should try to make the crossing. (Sorry for the piss poor example, but I hope it makes the point...)

If we want to go down this route, then maybe we need to look at revamping the Cigar Pass Insurance program to cover personal buys. If you do a lot of buying/selling, you may need to pony up to cover your risks.

I made the offer because I know Michael, and I hope he will do the right thing. If he does not, I feel comfortable covering for him as a favor to him. Whether that's the right thing to do from the perspective of covering for something he really should take care of himself, or from the perspective of teaching people a lesson is open for debate.

 

[Sweetrice80]

There will be plenty of people that will offer to make this right, if Mike chooses not to.

Correct. I have both the Sublimes and the DC ELs, and I will make it right if Michael chooses not to or ignores the issue.

Greg and Robbie, this really freakin' sucks guys but I'm sure you both know that this will be made right one way or the other. It's just how this place is!

Am I the only one that has a concern with this??

While I appreciate your generosity, Moki, I think it sets a dangerous example. The risk for entering into a transaction of this nature MUST rest with the buyer. If there's no risk, what's to keep the next person from buying cigars they know nothing about if the expectation is that "someone" on here will make it right. amateuraficionado's response implies that he already has this expectaion -- after all, "it's how this place is!"

Don't get me wrong. I know this a community and we look out for each other, but I also firmly believe that we need to take personal responsibility and begin to look out for ourselves at some point. If we handle purchases with the expectation that there is a safety net in place, what's to keep anyone and everyone from climbing onto the tight wire and trying to make it across the crevasse? Some folks need to fall and get hurt in order to ensure only those who are adequately trained should try to make the crossing. (Sorry for the piss poor example, but I hope it makes the point...)

If we want to go down this route, then maybe we need to look at revamping the Cigar Pass Insurance program to cover personal buys. If you do a lot of buying/selling, you may need to pony up to cover your risks.

I think Steve is just trying to say that No one should "bank" on anyone covering for someone. For an example. If I brought cigars from person A, but I do not personally know him, I will be Ok because if I get screwed someone else will cover for me. Its like using the community as an insurance policy. Moki, knew the guy which is why I think he was willing to pony up the cigars in a favor for him. I just think that, we should not have that mind set that someone will be there to bail us out, even though more times or not someone will PIF out of generosity.

David

 

[Rod]

I think it's safe to say we've given Mike an adequate amount of time to pony up and do the right thing. Clearly he doesn't feel that it's necessary. Mike's account will be terminated tomorrow.

I truly don't believe Greg or Robbie brought this to the table so that we would feel sorry for them and send them sympathy smokes, and I'm not insinuating that's what you meant Steve. However, I fully support the PIF camaraderie we have here and see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I've PIF'd in the past and will continue to do so. It's a choice we make, and no one is bound to any rules saying one way or another.

 

[tone-ny]

Andrew is Harris still taking information for the list or has someone else stepped up?

 

[Macion Grey]

I've got an awesome solution! If in doubt, send your Cuban cigars to me. I'll smoke them all, and tell you whether or not I enjoyed them.

Easy.

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

I think it's safe to say we've given Mike an adequate amount of time to pony up and do the right thing. Clearly he doesn't feel that it's necessary. Mike's account will be terminated tomorrow.

I truly don't believe Greg or Robbie brought this to the table so that we would feel sorry for them and send them sympathy smokes, and I'm not insinuating that's what you meant Steve. However, I fully support the PIF camaraderie we have here and see absolutely nothing wrong with it. I've PIF'd in the past and will continue to do so. It's a choice we make, and no one is bound to any rules saying one way or another.

Rod thank you for all your efforts with this unfortunate situation.

I want to say that if I insulted anyone or said anything recently that was inappropriate I apologize. I have been in anger recently, not for losing out on a couple of smokes but rather a breach of trust that I had with Mike who welcomed me with open arms when I arrived here at CP. Please don't feel bad for me I am truly blessed and would like to thank all of my friends here who have been so kind to me.

 

[moki]

Andrew is Harris still taking information for the list or has someone else stepped up?

Harris is MIA :/

 

[BrooksW]

A very sad situation.

~brooks

 

[PJ the Comic]

A very sad situation.

~brooks

No sir. A very good situation. I continue to be impressed with the way the board operates. I still have much to learn about boards but the way this transpired it was a very humane way to solve issues. Honesty, debate over issues, cooler heads speaking and being listened to, and all the while transparent and open. I would say this was interesting and educational. Not a bad siotuation at all IMO.

It is a shame for one individual only, and that also is human. To stiffen the back when threatened. Even if it was a perceived threat. Being new here I know none of the speakers personally, so I dare not pass judgment on anyone.
I am more impressed with CP after this.

PJ

 

[stevehawk]

Steve this has been done before, it is just a way of making up for someone not owning up to his debt or obligation. Especially, during Secret Santa and other like events. I don't think it happens that often, but others have stepped up and made things right.
This one was a little different in that Mike refused to take any responsibility. He basically said you guys don't know what you are talking about so how you can dispute the cigars I sent you. He also made a call about their character by saying maybe they confused the cigars he sent with bogus ones they had. So he made it seem like he was beyond reproach and these guys are wrong.

Bottom line he had a chance to make it right, he chose to say it wasn't of his making and bug off. Moki is just doing what he does on an on going basis, PIF.

I understand what Mike did and why Moki is stepping up. The point I'm trying to make (apparently not very well) is that "stepping up" is beginning to become an expectation of the board.

And you can't compare SS to a private deal. In the case of Secret Santa it makes perfect sense for us to step up and make things right. It's a community event in which everyone on the board is encouraged to participate and Santas are assigned at random. You don't know what you're going to get, or who it will come from. A private puchase/trade, on the other hand, is not a community event and is not random. You agree in advance to what you are sending/receivng and to/from whom.

I made the offer because I know Michael, and I hope he will do the right thing. If he does not, I feel comfortable covering for him as a favor to him. Whether that's the right thing to do from the perspective of covering for something he really should take care of himself, or from the perspective of teaching people a lesson is open for debate.

Moki, I'm glad you provided the clarification, because it's an important one. You are doing it as a favor to Mike -- the seller. You're not doing it for the buyer simply because "that's the way this place is."

I think Steve is just trying to say that No one should "bank" on anyone covering for someone. For an example. If I brought cigars from person A, but I do not personally know him, I will be Ok because if I get screwed someone else will cover for me. Its like using the community as an insurance policy. Moki, knew the guy which is why I think he was willing to pony up the cigars in a favor for him. I just think that, we should not have that mind set that someone will be there to bail us out, even though more times or not someone will PIF out of generosity.

David

Exactly! I apologize for my inability to make the point as clear as it should have been.

 

[tone-ny]

I understand what Mike did and why Moki is stepping up. The point I'm trying to make (apparently not very well) is that "stepping up" is beginning to become an expectation of the board.

And you can't compare SS to a private deal. In the case of Secret Santa it makes perfect sense for us to step up and make things right. It's a community event in which everyone on the board is encouraged to participate and Santas are assigned at random. You don't know what you're going to get, or who it will come from. A private puchase/trade, on the other hand, is not a community event and is not random. You agree in advance to what you are sending/receivng and to/from whom.

It draws a parallel in that in this case the person ran away from the responsibility, ala the SS have. Not owning up to a responsibility is what I was trying to highlight. The cigars where in question he chose to say they were legitimate and stopped all communication.

I agree a sale is a sale, but it was a sale on the BST and not really a private sale per se. It was out there for the whole community to look at. There were multiple buyers (3) if I'm not mistaken, so for him to state that all three mistook the cigars he sold with ones they already owned.

 

[pembroke3355]

I do not think anyone should expect someone else to make good on a deal gone bad. Mobig and I were both sold bad PSD4 from Jeht2000. He promised to refund our cash and has not been heard from since. I did not expect anyone to replace the sticks. I chalked it up to experience and moved on. Moki made a offer to make good on the sticks which was very kind. To expect someone to replace or make good on bad deals is too much to expect from other members. If it is done that is fine but to expect it is wrong IMO. :thumbs:

 

[bunn163A]

I do not think anyone should expect someone else to make good on a deal gone bad. Mobig and I were both sold bad PSD4 from Jeht2000. He promised to refund our cash and has not been heard from since. I did not expect anyone to replace the sticks. I chalked it up to experience and moved on. Moki made a offer to make good on the sticks which was very kind. To expect someone to replace or make good on bad deals is too much to expect from other members. If it is done that is fine but to expect it is wrong IMO. :thumbs:

I originally thought it best i not post anything here as I do not have a dog in the fight.To those involved i am sorry for your loss. however I am new here and am wondering why jeht2000 is still an active member and why vewyphishy has been banned.Like I said i have nothing in this,but would like to know the why jeht2000 is still a member if he ripped you off?

 

[MOBIG]

I do not think anyone should expect someone else to make good on a deal gone bad. Mobig and I were both sold bad PSD4 from Jeht2000. He promised to refund our cash and has not been heard from since. I did not expect anyone to replace the sticks. I chalked it up to experience and moved on. Moki made a offer to make good on the sticks which was very kind. To expect someone to replace or make good on bad deals is too much to expect from other members. If it is done that is fine but to expect it is wrong IMO. :thumbs:

I originally thought it best i not post anything here as I do not have a dog in the fight.To those involved i am sorry for your loss. however I am new here and am wondering why jeht2000 is still an active member and why vewyphishy has been banned.Like I said i have nothing in this,but would like to know the why jeht2000 is still a member if he ripped you off?

That’s a very good question? I thought he was band, but he log in on June 15, maybe Rod could take care of this matter…

 

[Rod]

I do not think anyone should expect someone else to make good on a deal gone bad. Mobig and I were both sold bad PSD4 from Jeht2000. He promised to refund our cash and has not been heard from since. I did not expect anyone to replace the sticks. I chalked it up to experience and moved on. Moki made a offer to make good on the sticks which was very kind. To expect someone to replace or make good on bad deals is too much to expect from other members. If it is done that is fine but to expect it is wrong IMO. :thumbs:

I originally thought it best i not post anything here as I do not have a dog in the fight.To those involved i am sorry for your loss. however I am new here and am wondering why jeht2000 is still an active member and why vewyphishy has been banned.Like I said i have nothing in this,but would like to know the why jeht2000 is still a member if he ripped you off?

He was never banned because I was never made aware of this situation. We do not have moderators here, all of the administrative duties fall on me, and if I'm not aware of something (ie bad trader) there is nothing I can do about it. If Jeht2000 did in fact fail to make good on a deal then the buyer should PM me with all of the details, evidence (threads), etc so I can take appropriate action.

 

[pembroke3355]

I also never noticed that he was not banned. I will admit I never PM'ed Rod about it so I have no one to blame but myself.

 

[MOBIG]

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