The GAS Pass

[StinkiMonki]

I'm against #10 and #65.

The DCA vs. Strad is not really a competition, regardless of the value. It's not on par with the rarity component.

The Casa Church is a bit tougher and I wouldn't be dissapointed to see this trade. It just seems off to me.

As for the rest, I think it sounds fine.

Geoff

 

[jlada]

Okay, after much thought and correspondence with some other well-respected brothers:

Approved:
T: #6 AF Anejo 77 Shark /// P: #74 Partagas 160 Robusto Major
T: #70 Tatuaje West /// P#77 Padilla Miami 8 & 11 Churchilll
T: #71 GOF 2004 Churchill /// P#78 GOF 2005 Churchill
T: #67 AF Opus X Perfecxion #2 /// P#79 ESG Churchill

I don't have a big issue per se, but would like input:
T: #65 Casa Fuente Churchill /// P#76 Padron 40th Maduro

Disapprove
T: #10 AF Don Carlos Edicion de Aniversario Toro /// P: #75 Stradivarius Churchill

The AF DCA is extremely limited and considered HTF (not to mention expensive). Whereas the Stradivarius is readily available (from what I can tell + input from others) in a lot of places online + B&M's.

 

[BigJake6904]

Sounds Good, Ill wait for the input/ approval on the casa.

As for the DCA, ill make it easy. Change the put to #75 FFOX Forbidden X Lancero 2005

 

[Jonesy]

Based on how this is going. To make it a bit easier, let's try this.

My proposed P/T:

Approved:
T: #6 AF Anejo 77 Shark /// P: #74 Partagas 160 Robusto Major GOOD
T: #70 Tatuaje West /// P#77 Padilla Miami 8 & 11 Churchilll GOOD
T: #71 GOF 2004 Churchill /// P#78 GOF 2005 Churchill NO GOOD the '04's are long gone while even though the band states 2005, it's the current issue out now.

Seemingly Agreed Upon
T: #10 AF Don Carlos Edicion de Aniversario Toro /// P: #75 Stradivarius Churchill NO GOOD Rarity alone
T: #65 Casa Fuente Churchill /// P#76 Padron 40th Maduro NO GOOD MSRP is good, but Rarity needs to be factored in also


NEWLY pending
T: #67 AF Opus X Perfecxion #2 /// P#79 ESG Churchill Hosts call

You can make an argument on most of these going MSRP for MSRP but you have to factor in the rarity and accessibility into these also. The Padron 40th for the Casa Fuente may be spot on with MSRP, but you can go anywhere or call anyone just about and get one....not so with the Casa. The GoF for GoF goes to the rule of putting in equal value or better, and on this trade, you're not.

 

[5 O'Clock Somewhere]

http://www.jackschwartz.com/s.900/don-carl...rio-cigars.aspx

 

[Jonesy]

[quote name='5 O'Clock Somewhere' post='643669' date='Apr 2 2008, 05:55 PM']http://www.jackschwartz.com/s.900/don-carl...rio-cigars.aspx[/quote]
You don't go by what one specific place offers a cigar for. In this instance for a DCA, MSRP must be used.

 

[BigJake6904]

With everyone pitching in, Ive become very confused as rarity seems to be opinionated by everyone differently, as Kevin pointed out, DCA's can be bought online just as everything else.

I think Jeff Needs to make a final decision on what is approved as of this point and what is denied as it seems previous approvals by him are now being questioned

I know at least that all the MSRP's on the puts were at or above the sticks, and rarity is the only question. If anything needs to be substituted for another take let me know, Jeff.

 

[5 O'Clock Somewhere]

I wasn't saying it was a fair P/T, it wasn't. With the b/s/t shenanigans earlier today and the interest in this thread I figured people might be interested in a vendor with DCAs at good prices.

 

[Jonesy]

With everyone pitching in, Ive become very confused as rarity seems to be opinionated by everyone differently, as Kevin pointed out, DCA's can be bought online just as everything else.

I think Jeff Needs to make a final decision as it seems previous approvals by him are now being double questioned.

I know at least that all the MSRP's on the puts were at or above the sticks, and rarity is the only question. If anything needs to be substituted for other take let me know, Jeff.

No approval of his are being "double questioned". He asked me for my opinion on the p/t's that you offered and I gave it in my post. There is no specific value you can put on rarity or age but other than maybe the GoF trade , I'm pretty sure most everyone else will agree with me on my assessment. As far as the DCA's go, you don't go by who has it and for what price....you go by the MSRP. In any pass if MSRP is available to you, that's what you use. If you can't find a specific MSRP, then you search multiple sites, find 3 or so box prices, and then divide the box price by the number of cigars and that gives you your value. Pretty cut and dried system.

 

[BigJake6904]

With everyone pitching in, Ive become very confused as rarity seems to be opinionated by everyone differently, as Kevin pointed out, DCA's can be bought online just as everything else.

I think Jeff Needs to make a final decision as it seems previous approvals by him are now being double questioned.

I know at least that all the MSRP's on the puts were at or above the sticks, and rarity is the only question. If anything needs to be substituted for other take let me know, Jeff.

No approval of his are being "double questioned". He asked me for my opinion on the p/t's that you offered and I gave it in my post. There is no specific value you can put on rarity or age but other than maybe the GoF trade , I'm pretty sure most everyone else will agree with me on my assessment. As far as the DCA's go, you don't go by who has it and for what price....you go by the MSRP. In any pass if MSRP is available to you, that's what you use. If you can't find a specific MSRP, then you search multiple sites, find 3 or so box prices, and then divide the box price by the number of cigars and that gives you your value. Pretty cut and dried system.

MSRP is not what's in question, as every put was over msrp of the take. Rarity value is what's in question.

 

[Jonesy]

With everyone pitching in, Ive become very confused as rarity seems to be opinionated by everyone differently, as Kevin pointed out, DCA's can be bought online just as everything else.

I think Jeff Needs to make a final decision as it seems previous approvals by him are now being double questioned.

I know at least that all the MSRP's on the puts were at or above the sticks, and rarity is the only question. If anything needs to be substituted for other take let me know, Jeff.

No approval of his are being "double questioned". He asked me for my opinion on the p/t's that you offered and I gave it in my post. There is no specific value you can put on rarity or age but other than maybe the GoF trade , I'm pretty sure most everyone else will agree with me on my assessment. As far as the DCA's go, you don't go by who has it and for what price....you go by the MSRP. In any pass if MSRP is available to you, that's what you use. If you can't find a specific MSRP, then you search multiple sites, find 3 or so box prices, and then divide the box price by the number of cigars and that gives you your value. Pretty cut and dried system.

MSRP is not what's in question, as every put was over msrp of the take. Rarity value is what's in question.

ummmmm...... I realize that. That was a generalization and not solely directed towards you.

 

[verhoevc]

I sure as heck hope my P/Ts aren't this difficult... this is getting ridiculous... if you go by what some of the people are saying you could NEVER trade half the stuff in this pass?!
Chris

 

[BigJake6904]

I feel sorry for you guys at the end. BBMFs for everything.

 

[jlada]

After giving this some much deserved research and thought, I've decided to go ahead and think about it some more and post later. Since you said you were mailing it Friday, I can give it some noggin' time.

After corresponding with several brothers here and locally via phone, I've got some good information and have been mistaken about one of my prior assumptions on the cigars in question -- specifically the GoF 2004/2005 blends.

I think there needs to be a slight cool down here, gents.

By the way, this situation is a distinct reason why I said in italics "we can all be the judge of rarity" in the pass rules. I am no authority, nor do I claim to be. I figured with the list I put up (with no expense spared, and ever cigar being on my "top shelf" worthy list) that there would be some nice cigars thrown around, and rarity issues would come up. This is the exact reason I didn't put in an old 858 Sun Grown, a couple rare Opus vitolas, and a few other HTFs. However, I would prefer the pass come to a concensus rather than me be a dictator. Obviously, everyone has different opinions on cigar rarity, and thus, there must be a final say in what is allowed. But, I will be going with the popular vote/opinion rather than be a vetoer.

Nonetheless, I'm going to give it a rest for the night. More input is welcome (and encouraged, mind you) from all the pass members.


-----------------------------

Edit: As another note -- As I said in the beginning, and I'm glad I thought hard and had the foresight of what might take place in the pass:

Please factor in cost, rarity, tact, and cigar knowledge to dictate what is a fair trade and what isn't.

I am the first to admit ignorance in some categories, but I am adamant about finding the answer if I don't know it. I'm not ashamed to ask 10 brothers, either.

Given the relatively high-end nature of the pass (no cigar under $10 or so dollars, and some at $30)...... and you are responsible for making sure you have cigars that can be fair puts.

I am not saying people are not being fair, I simply warned people that it was "high end" in nature. The original list tallies in hundreds and hundreds of dollars worth of cigars.

Furthermore, I think the BBMF statment is somewhat out of line. I see quite a few non-BBMF cost/rarity cigars in the pass that I could name dozens upon dozens of cigars that would be fair puts. However, Jake, you are choosing some of the BEST CIGARS in the pass to take. Therefore, it is only fair that a premium should be sacrificed for said cigars. When $100+ goes on the chopping block in the form of some HTFs and a proverbial creme de la creme of cigars are being taken, it is only fair and justified that the pass is reinforced.

 

[Jonesy]

Both of these statements are out of line.

I sure as heck hope my P/Ts aren't this difficult... this is getting ridiculous... if you go by what some of the people are saying you could NEVER trade half the stuff in this pass?!
Chris

This isn't getting ridiculous, this is everything about knowing what is a good trade for what. There are certain cigars here that run $30+. If you want to trade for them, do your homework and see what will work. This is a higher end pass and it was stated so in the beginning....if you have a problem with the p/t's , you shouldn't have joined.

I feel sorry for you guys at the end. BBMFs for everything.

To me, this is a slap in the face statement towards Jeff. Seems like you would have learned you're lesson by now seeing this is you're 4th pass in 3 months and in each separate pass, your P/T's have been shot down. Not a good percentage if you plan on getting in more passes down the road. I would be trying to go above and beyond on P/T's if I were you because no one will invite you in a pass if they realize that you've tried to "squeeze" your P/T's in every pass you've been in so far.

 

[KeithS]

Rarity can be tough (as you have already found out) I'd try limited editions, discontinued cigars, custom rolls, etc would be a place to start, other cigars that are released on a cycle (e.g. Anejo's) also.

The phrase "rarity cannot be bought" is key to remember, you cannot trade a regualr production cigar with a high MSRP for a rare one with a lower MSRP. Athough a higher MSRP does play into effect when the rarity is slightly canted; it can help balance the trade out.

Lastly one thing to remember this is supposed to be fun and also a learning experience, if your not sure about a trade, pm a senior member and ask them for their opinion.

Tim posted this in my first hosted pass and I think it was an excellent statement. It seems that there are some newer members in this pass so some may still be learning.

Since rarity can be somewhat subjective maybe 3 members should be picked to vote on rarity with their decision being final. Jeff could ask for a vote on trades that are close and a final decision could be made.

Lets not make it stressful.

Keith

 

[BigJake6904]

My involvement in this pass has caused more headaches than I ever expected. Passes are meant to be fun and a means of communication and camaraderie amongst gentlemen that share a love for the same hobby. I will be honest, I sent Jeff a pm stating I would simply ship the pass on to the next person, and simply add a bit to it's strength as a means to right a wrong, and keep the drama off the boards and certainly out of his pass. He encouraged me to do a few P's and T's still , as of course that is the purpose of all of this. I have included a few sticks as a gift to Jeff that are labeled "Host" in the box, for the drama I inevitably caused.

I wanted to apologize for the BBMF comment, that was meant more of as a joke. However, being the internet, the way which I meant it was of course not the way many took it. There were a few comments exchanged by members of the pass and myself that both sides took an offense to, however, being the one that instigated it, I hope to make it right. As I pointed out to Jeff, I like to keep a low key and drama out of my life, so inevitably this will probably be my last pass, at least for quite some time.

For those of you that questioned my integrity, and simply thought I was trying to take away from the community, I urge you to consider some of the other things which I have contributed here on CP and not to judge me solely based on our interaction here this night. Some of the responses by more established members seemingly could have been a bit more helpful instead of so brash, but given the nature of this pass, I understand why.

My biggest issue I guess is being a judge on rarity and I will explain why, which is what instigated all the heated posts. There are some rare sticks that are fairly ample and available to us here on CP. To me, what used to be rare before joining, such as any ISOM, is no longer rare at all, but just as prevalent as many NC sticks. I felt the same thing held true with sticks such as Opus, Anejo, and Casa Fuentes. Reason being, if you were to go post an ISO thread, you undoubtedly would have at least one member that has them that would be more than gracious in getting you a few sticks. This is what I based my opinion of rarity on, the ampleness of some of the cigars here on CP, as opposed to those that live near one or two B&M's or an hour away from one. Obviously, I was in the wrong, and my judgment as opposed to the majority what a misconception.

For the trouble this brought to Jeff's pass, and to those involved, I apologize and hope this can satisfy any questions y'all may have had. Granted that Jeff already approved these P/T's and none of these were brought into question, I will propose these and let the other one's go null and void, Im sure they will cross my path sometime in the future. Sorry for the drama guys, I hope you all can recognize that it was not my intention to do so.


T: #6 AF Anejo 77 Shark /// P: #74 Partagas 160 Robusto Major
T: #70 Tatuaje West /// P#77 Padilla Miami 8 & 11 Churchilll
T: #67 AF Opus X Perfecxion #2 /// P#79 ESG Churchill

 

[jlada]

HOLY WALL OF TEXT!!!!

[sarcasm]Pussy!!!! Man up and put a BBMF if you're gonna talk smack.[/sarcasm]

:sign: :love: :laugh:

 

[Jonesy]

I wanted to apologize for the BBMF comment, that was meant more of as a joke. However, being the internet, the way which I meant it was of course not the way many took it. There were a few comments exchanged by members of the pass and myself that both sides took an offense to, however, being the one that instigated it, I hope to make it right. As I pointed out to Jeff, I like to keep a low key and drama out of my life, so inevitably this will probably be my last pass, at least for quite some time.

The BBMF may have been meant to be a joke, but you were the only one that knew it. After the posts in front of yours, with you saying that, came off as an insult towards the pass and Jeff.

For those of you that questioned my integrity, and simply thought I was trying to take away from the community, I urge you to consider some of the other things which I have contributed here on CP and not to judge me solely based on our interaction here this night. Some of the responses by more established members seemingly could have been a bit more helpful instead of so brash, but given the nature of this pass, I understand why.

No one here questioned your integrity. I only got "brash" after you made the insulting post, up until then, I was being helpful.

My biggest issue I guess is being a judge on rarity and I will explain why, which is what instigated all the heated posts. There are some rare sticks that are fairly ample and available to us here on CP. To me, what used to be rare before joining, such as any ISOM, is no longer rare at all, but just as prevalent as many NC sticks. I felt the same thing held true with sticks such as Opus, Anejo, and Casa Fuentes. Reason being, if you were to go post an ISO thread, you undoubtedly would have at least one member that has them that would be more than gracious in getting you a few sticks. This is what I based my opinion of rarity on, the ampleness of some of the cigars here on CP, as opposed to those that live near one or two B&M's or an hour away from one. Obviously, I was in the wrong, and my judgment as opposed to the majority what a misconception.

There were no heated posts in this thread. About rarity, it doesn't matter how "ample" the supply is here in the community, it has everything to do with the general availability of the cigar in public (ie. B&M , online retailers, etc....).

For the trouble this brought to Jeff's pass, and to those involved, I apologize and hope this can satisfy any questions y'all may have had. Granted that Jeff already approved these P/T's and none of these were brought into question, I will propose these and let the other one's go null and void, Im sure they will cross my path sometime in the future. Sorry for the drama guys, I hope you all can recognize that it was not my intention to do so.


T: #6 AF Anejo 77 Shark /// P: #74 Partagas 160 Robusto Major
T: #70 Tatuaje West /// P#77 Padilla Miami 8 & 11 Churchilll
T: #67 AF Opus X Perfecxion #2 /// P#79 ESG Churchill

This hasn't brought trouble to the pass. This is a learning experience, a way to get to know other members, and a way to have fun. The only thing that was wrong was your BBMF comment and you apologized for that so all should be square now. I've watched what you've done in your time here as a member Jake and you've been nothing but a stand up guy that I'd like to sit down and smoke with some day. You've contributed many different ways from what I've seen so far and it's commendable. You just have to realize that the one little comment that was taken out of context can be run with many different ways....the little :laugh: icons right here would have kept me from thinking it was meant as an insult an realized it was a joke.

Brian

 

[jlada]

Thanks for playing BigJake6904! Let use know when you ship it on out tomorrow.

And as for all pass members, I want the subject dropped. There will be no more discussion about the issue in this thread - period. Take it to PM.

Onward to khari! Ready, brother?

Pass list updated, map updated. Contest coming for pass members after it leaves khari (halfwayish point).