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Fruits of Castro's Soil Pass No.1

Everyone makes great points and it is much appreciated. However this is what I was trying to avoid in a way. with my cigars and the guys in the pass that signed up I look at it this way. If Bill was to put the La Esp. in for a BGM at a $12 difference and we as a group are ok with that then when someone wants to take the La Esp. out with and RE EL or LCDH for a $12 under put then we need to be ok with that. That's how I look at it at least. Don't get me wrong I understand the point to set up pricing caps for under or over but IMO and this being a CC only pass it would lead to unnecessary arguing and work that would never be completed since not everyone has the same products, prices vary drastically, and there is no set price on cc's out of production. 
 
 
CigSid said:
Great discussion guys, how about I replace the La Escepcion with a Ramon Allones Estupendos RE 2007, which I paid @ $12 for... Even though they are an LE and a few years older, it would be closer in price than the La Escepcion...
 
Thoughts?
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This looks better to me Bill I wonder what others think.
 
Thanks again everyone,
Paul
 
The only reason I brought this up is that in just about EVERY pass, the discussion of over/under puts always comes up. In my mind, there should NEVER be an under put unless it's close. With what you're saying is that if this trade were made, someone down the line could take the La Escepcion for a Monte #2? I understand this is your pass Paul and you can handle things the way you want, but you also need to realize if you allow this, you'll be setting precedence for passes down the road, no matter what the rules are. Because then you're going to get "Why can't I do this trade? It was allowed in Paul's pass so it should be allowed here!". This ends up affecting more than this pass alone....
Tall Paul said:
 If Bill was to put the La Esp. in for a BGM at a $12 difference and we as a group are ok with that then when someone wants to take the La Esp. out with and RE EL or LCDH for a $12 under put then we need to be ok with that. n. 
 
 
 
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Jonesy said:
 
The only reason I brought this up is that in just about EVERY pass, the discussion of over/under puts always comes up. In my mind, there should NEVER be an under put unless it's close. With what you're saying is that if this trade were made, someone down the line could take the La Escepcion for a Monte #2? I understand this is your pass Paul and you can handle things the way you want, but you also need to realize if you allow this, you'll be setting precedence for passes down the road, no matter what the rules are. Because then you're going to get "Why can't I do this trade? It was allowed in Paul's pass so it should be allowed here!". This ends up affecting more than this pass alone....
 If Bill was to put the La Esp. in for a BGM at a $12 difference and we as a group are ok with that then when someone wants to take the La Esp. out with and RE EL or LCDH for a $12 under put then we need to be ok with that. n. 
 
 
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I understand and thank you for the input. What do you think of the new proposal?
 
CigSid said:
Great discussion guys, how about I replace the La Escepcion with a Ramon Allones Estupendos RE 2007, which I paid @ $12 for... Even though they are an LE and a few years older, it would be closer in price than the La Escepcion...
 
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Bill, I think that would work or even better if you have an LCDH H Upmann Royal Robusto to keep it within a LCDH release.
 
 
A few more thoughts on P&T's in general: If we are going by what we paid for the cigars then why bother to check three different vendors to get a baseline price? Is it maybe because we all of us paid something differently for each one - some higher than others. I for one will pay a higher price on a cigar that I really want.
 
If we can't find any vendor with the stock or if they are out stock on a particular cigar that we are looking for then doesn't that qualify the cigar as a HTF product? 
 
I understand the pass concept of trying to keep everything even but there has to be some wiggle room and discussion for rarity and HTF cigars and these shouldn't be treated on the same basis as a regular production cigars or readily available EL/RE's. 
 
Light this! said:
 
Great discussion guys, how about I replace the La Escepcion with a Ramon Allones Estupendos RE 2007, which I paid @ $12 for... Even though they are an LE and a few years older, it would be closer in price than the La Escepcion...
 
Thoughts?
Click to expand...
 
Bill, I think that would work or even better if you have an LCDH H Upmann Royal Robusto to keep it within a LCDH release.
 
 
A few more thoughts on P&T's in general: If we are going by what we paid for the cigars then why bother to check three different vendors to get a baseline price? Is it maybe because we all of us paid something differently for each one - some higher than others. I for one will pay a higher price on a cigar that I really want.
 
If we can't find any vendor with the stock or if they are out stock on a particular cigar that we are looking for then doesn't that qualify the cigar as a HTF product? 
 
I understand the pass concept of trying to keep everything even but there has to be some wiggle room and discussion for rarity and HTF cigars and these shouldn't be treated on the same basis as a regular production cigars or readily available EL/RE's. 
 
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Rule of thumb for a pass is what you paid or MSRP. UNLESS you're trading something like a Liga Flying pig that you may have paid $25 for at your B&M. Then you can't expect to take a Lost City with it, trading doesn't work that way. If you overpaid, you can't go value/value for something that MSRP's for the same price. The problem with cigar pricing nowadays is there are so many "Boutique" lines out there that are limited production...everyone, Drew Estates and Tatuaje being the main culprits, are doing nothing but coming out with LE cigars making rarity something extremely hard, even for the most seasoned passer, to figure out (I know this doesn't affect this pass, but it's a major point in passes these days).
 
The BGM is one of those trades I'd allow an overput for. Just because they were so cheap, ran for 5 years, and were widely available but now they're out of production. This is a case where you take the MSRP of the BGM, add a little value for being out of production, and trade something like I said before, in the neighborhood of a Cohiba in it's place. You don't want a one time, limited release traded for something that wasn't limited and ran for 5 years and was mass produced. 
If Bill paid $12 for the Ramon Allones Estupendos RE 2007, then to me, that's a good trade, but now you have to make sure you value that cigar as a $12 cigar being the only downside. Because now you have a one time LE cigar that's 7 years old so it carries rarity and age. That's what you would need to ponder.
 
Jonesy said:
 
If Bill paid $12 for the Ramon Allones Estupendos RE 2007, then to me, that's a good trade, but now you have to make sure you value that cigar as a $12 cigar being the only downside. Because now you have a one time LE cigar that's 7 years old so it carries rarity and age. That's what you would need to ponder.
 
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Exactly Jonesy, this is why I mentioned the H Upmann Royal Robusto instead which is priced just right and is also a LCDH release. 
 
Yes, I have the H. Upmann Royal Robusto, I can do that one instead...
 
CigSid said:
Yes, I have the H. Upmann Royal Robusto, I can do that one instead...
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Bill, I actually feel more comfortable with the H. Upmann Robusto - anyone else?
 
Light this! said:
 
Yes, I have the H. Upmann Royal Robusto, I can do that one instead...
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Bill, I actually feel more comfortable with the H. Upmann Robusto - anyone else?
 
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I think it sounds like a winner... as stated, a LCDH release, not tremendously rare, but still an LE.
 
Now this is exactly how you handle a situation like this! Kudos to all of you
 
 
Like I told Paul, I wasn't trying to step on toes, just trying to give some sound advice.
 
Great! Thanks for helping out a brother... My current P&T's::
 
5. Bolivar Gold Medal LRE OCT 09 / H.Upmann Royal Robusto LCDH - UPE NOV 12
9. Bolivar Simones RE Canada 08 / Por Larranaga Belicosos Extra RE 2008 - EMA SEP 08
15. H. Upmann Magnum 48 EL 09 / Bolivar Petit Belicosos LE 2009 - MUR MAY 09
23. Punch Punch 07 / Cohiba Genios 2010 - SUB SEP 10
36. Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos RE 09 / SLR Pacifico RE 2009 - MOS JUL 09
 
Final thoughts please.
 
CigSid said:
Great! Thanks for helping out a brother... My current P&T's::
 
5. Bolivar Gold Medal LRE OCT 09 / H.Upmann Royal Robusto LCDH - UPE NOV 12
9. Bolivar Simones RE Canada 08 / Por Larranaga Belicosos Extra RE 2008 - EMA SEP 08
15. H. Upmann Magnum 48 EL 09 / Bolivar Petit Belicosos LE 2009 - MUR MAY 09
23. Punch Punch 07 / Cohiba Genios 2010 - SUB SEP 10
36. Ramon Allones Celestiales Finos RE 09 / SLR Pacifico RE 2009 - MOS JUL 09
 
Final thoughts please.
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Looks great and nice work on your first pass brother. When a pass newbie is up and conversation like this happens I have seen them get very frustrated and you handled it great well done.

Brian and Kris thank you for all your great points and looking out for the pass it is much appreciated. Brian I never thought you were stepping on any toes at all your help and expertise is much appreciated. I hope everyone is learning some valuable info!

Thsnk you everyone,
Paul
 
Well done fellas...this is what a pass is all about. LEARNING through well thought out, intelligent conversations.  :thumbs:
 
I love it!!
 
Out of curiosity how is the humidity bags holding up? Have we had to open a new one yet?

Paul
 
Humidity bags are holding up fine.
 
This pass is ready to fly, joebunaga, are you ready brother???
 
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