The Empire Strikes Back...the pass

[stepthirteen]

48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000

Jim,
Is this the one that comes in a coffin?

E

Yep

 

[markmarksman]

Just so you old timers can talk about my P/T's here they are. My custom has always been to post my P/T's with the pass host first to see what he thinks and then let the rest of your go over what you think may be wrong or right. I feel these are good but have at her guys.




T-#41 AF BTL/ P- AF 8-5-8 SG.
T-#19 WOAM/ P-TAT Black
T-#16 Illusione ~23~ Culebra /P-#45 God of Fire Carlito Robosto from 06'
T-#37 Cohiba Maduro Genios '07 / P-#46 Casa fuente Belicoso
P-#47 DC Maximus #2 Churchill


Mark

Mark, at this point, posting your P&Ts for open discussion is meaningless...the Pass Host has already approved them. To argue one way or another about a cigar exchange would (in my mind) be disrespectful to the host.

I totally understand the idea of running your P&Ts by the host via PM, but I always thought that would be if one of them was a bit unorthodox.....like you did with your 3rd P&T, a culebra for a non culebra or a CC for a non-CC.

When I was in my first Newbie Pass, I did PM my P&Ts to Jonesy so I could get a grasp on the whole concept. Brian walked me through it, step by step in a patient manor and I learned from him. You can read all the previous Passes you want, the one that you're in could still be a little different.

That being said, once we gain more experience as we participate in more Passes, I thought the idea of posting them publicly was what this whole process was about....posting your selections and discussing your thought process behind why you proposed them in the first place. Once you learn the basics of 'HTF for HTF' and 'equal value for equal value' and how to calculate pricing to determine a cigar's market value....I believe there is no 'right or wrong', just one person's opinion versus another's....and that's what's up for discussion.

Which now brings me to my point, has the underlying current of the quick pace influenced us to not go public and just send them directly to Brian to stay in stride?....to avoid the discussions back-n-forth that would normally take up a bit of time in the Pass thread? Should the pace dictate the process and take away from the learning curve?

Brian, I don't mean this in a bad way, it's just that the model you have set up in your Passes could be a little intimidating to some of us. You mentioned a sort of 'schedule'...that's hard to maintain when you have the human element involved within a Cigar Pass. If the Pass didn't make it to the Herf that you and Isy have planned, is that such a bad thing? (not unless you planned on giving away all the cigars at the Herf! :laugh: ) Isn't the fact we all just get together OK too?...and the Pass progresses at it's natural pace?

Brian, the fact that you are taking on the undaunted task of running a Pass is wonderful and I appreciate your invitation and all your hard work, let's just put it in the proper light and make it a great experience for everyone involved.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

I was just following the pass rules. The say to send ourP/T's to the pass host first so thats wat I did. Ya, I was a little concerned about my 3rd P/T but The only other ISOM's I have are way above the price of the culebra so I found something else that cam close. That being said I believe it was still a pretty good trade.


Mark

 

[Doc Wylie]

Just so you old timers can talk about my P/T's here they are. My custom has always been to post my P/T's with the pass host first to see what he thinks and then let the rest of your go over what you think may be wrong or right. I feel these are good but have at her guys.




T-#41 AF BTL/ P- AF 8-5-8 SG.
T-#19 WOAM/ P-TAT Black
T-#16 Illusione ~23~ Culebra /P-#45 God of Fire Carlito Robosto from 06'
T-#37 Cohiba Maduro Genios '07 / P-#46 Casa fuente Belicoso
P-#47 DC Maximus #2 Churchill


Mark

Mark, at this point, posting your P&Ts for open discussion is meaningless...the Pass Host has already approved them. To argue one way or another about a cigar exchange would (in my mind) be disrespectful to the host.

I totally understand the idea of running your P&Ts by the host via PM, but I always thought that would be if one of them was a bit unorthodox.....like you did with your 3rd P&T, a culebra for a non culebra or a CC for a non-CC.

When I was in my first Newbie Pass, I did PM my P&Ts to Jonesy so I could get a grasp on the whole concept. Brian walked me through it, step by step in a patient manor and I learned from him. You can read all the previous Passes you want, the one that you're in could still be a little different.

That being said, once we gain more experience as we participate in more Passes, I thought the idea of posting them publicly was what this whole process was about....posting your selections and discussing your thought process behind why you proposed them in the first place. Once you learn the basics of 'HTF for HTF' and 'equal value for equal value' and how to calculate pricing to determine a cigar's market value....I believe there is no 'right or wrong', just one person's opinion versus another's....and that's what's up for discussion.

Which now brings me to my point, has the underlying current of the quick pace influenced us to not go public and just send them directly to Brian to stay in stride?....to avoid the discussions back-n-forth that would normally take up a bit of time in the Pass thread? Should the pace dictate the process and take away from the learning curve?

Brian, I don't mean this in a bad way, it's just that the model you have set up in your Passes could be a little intimidating to some of us. You mentioned a sort of 'schedule'...that's hard to maintain when you have the human element involved within a Cigar Pass. If the Pass didn't make it to the Herf that you and Isy have planned, is that such a bad thing? (not unless you planned on giving away all the cigars at the Herf! :laugh: ) Isn't the fact we all just get together OK too?...and the Pass progresses at it's natural pace?

Brian, the fact that you are taking on the undaunted task of running a Pass is wonderful and I appreciate your invitation and all your hard work, let's just put it in the proper light and make it a great experience for everyone involved.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

I was just following the pass rules. The say to send ourP/T's to the pass host first so thats wat I did. Ya, I was a little concerned about my 3rd P/T but The only other ISOM's I have are way above the price of the culebra so I found something else that cam close. That being said I believe it was still a pretty good trade.


Mark

Not trying to beat a dead horse on this issue, but what the rules state is that all P's & T's indeed are subject to final approval by Brian, but then go on to say "Please post all of your requested P/T's in the thread for approval."

Incidently, my first P's & T's are usually always shot down for all to see by multiple pass participants. This pass business is a tricky one! :laugh:

 

[stepthirteen]

I am not trying to beat a dead horse, but the rules do not say you have to PM Brian with the P's/T's first they say this-

Prior to receiving the box please have an idea of your P/T's so we can make a speedy turnaround. This is the key to the pass. Please post all of your requested P/T's in the thread for approval. Be prompt. Quick turnaround is key as everyone is anxiously waiting to receive the box. Once you receive the box, make the exchange, check the RH levels and make sure the sticks are in tack. You do not want to be blamed for poor shipping and having a broken stick on your hands, post on CP and mail it off ASAP. It's more fun to have the box make its rounds through the pass quickly.

And this, but this does not say specifically that they are PMd it just says Brian has the final say-

Bully1875 will have to approve all P/T's prior to passing the box

All of the passes I have been in on CP (accept for one, I have been in several) have not required that the P's and T's be PMd to the host first. I think that it really does not matter either way, but in order to learn I think getting feedback from other pass members publicly is very beneficial .

Jim

 

[bully1875]

Just so you old timers can talk about my P/T's here they are. My custom has always been to post my P/T's with the pass host first to see what he thinks and then let the rest of your go over what you think may be wrong or right. I feel these are good but have at her guys.




T-#41 AF BTL/ P- AF 8-5-8 SG.
T-#19 WOAM/ P-TAT Black
T-#16 Illusione ~23~ Culebra /P-#45 God of Fire Carlito Robosto from 06'
T-#37 Cohiba Maduro Genios '07 / P-#46 Casa fuente Belicoso
P-#47 DC Maximus #2 Churchill


Mark

Mark, at this point, posting your P&Ts for open discussion is meaningless...the Pass Host has already approved them. To argue one way or another about a cigar exchange would (in my mind) be disrespectful to the host.

I totally understand the idea of running your P&Ts by the host via PM, but I always thought that would be if one of them was a bit unorthodox.....like you did with your 3rd P&T, a culebra for a non culebra or a CC for a non-CC.

When I was in my first Newbie Pass, I did PM my P&Ts to Jonesy so I could get a grasp on the whole concept. Brian walked me through it, step by step in a patient manor and I learned from him. You can read all the previous Passes you want, the one that you're in could still be a little different.

That being said, once we gain more experience as we participate in more Passes, I thought the idea of posting them publicly was what this whole process was about....posting your selections and discussing your thought process behind why you proposed them in the first place. Once you learn the basics of 'HTF for HTF' and 'equal value for equal value' and how to calculate pricing to determine a cigar's market value....I believe there is no 'right or wrong', just one person's opinion versus another's....and that's what's up for discussion.

Which now brings me to my point, has the underlying current of the quick pace influenced us to not go public and just send them directly to Brian to stay in stride?....to avoid the discussions back-n-forth that would normally take up a bit of time in the Pass thread? Should the pace dictate the process and take away from the learning curve?

Brian, I don't mean this in a bad way, it's just that the model you have set up in your Passes could be a little intimidating to some of us. You mentioned a sort of 'schedule'...that's hard to maintain when you have the human element involved within a Cigar Pass. If the Pass didn't make it to the Herf that you and Isy have planned, is that such a bad thing? (not unless you planned on giving away all the cigars at the Herf! :laugh: ) Isn't the fact we all just get together OK too?...and the Pass progresses at it's natural pace?

Brian, the fact that you are taking on the undaunted task of running a Pass is wonderful and I appreciate your invitation and all your hard work, let's just put it in the proper light and make it a great experience for everyone involved.

:thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

Wow, gone for a day and come back to a lot of unanswered questions... Well let's sort this all out..

First and foremost.. I really do not intend on this (or any pass I start) to be intimidating at all, unorthodox yes, but not intimidating.. The reason I allow CC for NC and such is because it give's people the opportunity to try something that may be a bit harder to get their hands on with a matching origin. I do require HTF for HTF and MSRP for MSRP (as close as possible), but it adds a unique flavor to the pass when you add the CC for NC. I have been criticized for doing this, but if you don't like it, then don't join... I, for the most part, have had a great response to these (2) passes so far. The reason for the speed is not only the herf (which is going to be infrickencredible), but for the benifit of the cigars.. I have been in a number of passes (now including my own) where a box has been from one person to another and across the county a few sticks get damaged, now I expected (although didn't want) this to happen, but last pass we had 1 stick pulled from the pass with suspected beetle damage (it turned out not to be), but the rest were in perfect shape and the box got back to me within 2 months. I was very happy everyone was so in tune.. I do however realize that this is a learning curve for all of us (especially me) and by all mean's do not (and will not anymore) want to rush anyone unless the time frame is truly unreasonable. Next, the PM'ing the host is not a requirement. Some people feel there are things that need to be discussed prior to publiclly posting their P/T's, I respect that and will accomodate anyone that want's to do this.. This is where I give you (the members of the pass) the freedom to do as you will. I will however (moving forward) require all P/T's to be posted publiclly prior to official acceptance by me. This will give everyone the opportunity to express their opionions of the person's P/T's and wage their influence over my decision (which I encourage). I also want to give kudo's to those of you who have spoken up and made these concerns regarding my pass etiquitte. I really do appreciate it. It make's us all a little more wiser in the end.

So after a short deliberation on my Part, here are my P's/T's for approval-

Puts-

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08
22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded
29 - Monte # 2 '06

Takes-

48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000
49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000)
50- Punch Punch from 2006
51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007

I await the approval/denial .

Jim

Jim.. You do mean


Take's -

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08
22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded
29 - Monte # 2 '06

Put's -

48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000
49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000)
50- Punch Punch from 2006
51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007



RIght??? Also, can you confirm there are 2 VSG Wizards and that the stick numbering is correct. Thanks

I am not trying to beat a dead horse, but the rules do not say you have to PM Brian with the P's/T's first they say this-

Prior to receiving the box please have an idea of your P/T's so we can make a speedy turnaround. This is the key to the pass. Please post all of your requested P/T's in the thread for approval. Be prompt. Quick turnaround is key as everyone is anxiously waiting to receive the box. Once you receive the box, make the exchange, check the RH levels and make sure the sticks are in tack. You do not want to be blamed for poor shipping and having a broken stick on your hands, post on CP and mail it off ASAP. It's more fun to have the box make its rounds through the pass quickly.

And this, but this does not say specifically that they are PMd it just says Brian has the final say-

Bully1875 will have to approve all P/T's prior to passing the box

All of the passes I have been in on CP (accept for one, I have been in several) have not required that the P's and T's be PMd to the host first. I think that it really does not matter either way, but in order to learn I think getting feedback from other pass members publicly is very beneficial .

Jim

I agree Jim, however as mentioned before, I will accept what the member want's and then require a public posting prior to approval P/T's




I hope this clear's some questions up..

 

[GregSVT]

Marc did put two Wizards in there and I even put the extra in it's own bag and numbered it (he had it in a zip lock bag). If you re-read the thread you'll see where he says the Tat Frank he was going to put in was damaged and he was going to put an extra Wizard in for good measure. Come on Newbs...read more post less.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

I don't mean to bitch, but isn't it stick for stick, not two for one. Nothing there is the same price as the BBMF Maduro. What stick for what stick?

Please limit your TAKES to a maximum of 3 ~ 5…just be sure that the value of the stick replacement is equal or greater as this is about Quality NOT Quantity.

This is more Quality and Rarity matching then anything else.

Just the rules.

 

[bully1875]

Marc did put two Wizards in there and I even put the extra in it's own bag and numbered it (he had it in a zip lock bag). If you re-read the thread you'll see where he says the Tat Frank he was going to put in was damaged and he was going to put an extra Wizard in for good measure. Come on Newbs...read more post less.

Thanks... Yeah.. you noobs :whistling:

I don't mean to bitch, but isn't it stick for stick, not two for one. Nothing there is the same price as the BBMF Maduro. What stick for what stick?

Please limit your TAKES to a maximum of 3 ~ 5…just be sure that the value of the stick replacement is equal or greater as this is about Quality NOT Quantity.

This is more Quality and Rarity matching then anything else.

Just the rules.

Andy, point taken, however, nothing of Jim's have been approved as of yet..

Jim, can you please specify which sticks you are putting for which you are taking.

Thanks,
Brian

 

[stepthirteen]

I beg the differ because by my account the hoyo particularus is a close put for that bbmf.

 

[bully1875]

I beg the differ because by my account the hoyo particularus is a close put for that bbmf.

Jim, I agree with the P/T for the BBMFM, but to simplify things please spell out what for what.. Then we can have a discussion on why or why not this is good.

I personally like the rarity of this stick, however as much as I look, I cannot seem to find a price at all...

 

[stepthirteen]

Here are my Puts and Takes-


Take ~for~ Put

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08 ~for~ 48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000
22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded ~for~ 49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000)
29 - Monte # 2 '06 ~for~ 50- Punch Punch from 2006
51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007

I am not right on the money for the Hoyo, but I am pretty confident they where close to the Opus 22 value when they sold fresh, but I could be wrong, so do not etch it in stone. Either way they are expensive now. I have seen them go for $60-$80 a piece if you can find them.

I am going to make one more pass through the box once this is finalized and I will let you know on the VSG .

Jim

 

[SPIVY]

IMHO The BBMFM is Valued between 45 and 75 depending on the source. The Opus 22 Set puts a value of ~43.18. I have 5 that I have paid between 60-75. The Particulares that I have seen for sale were at the upper range of that. I think that one is a close but fair trade. And in my opinion the rest are spot on

E

And for the record. I was offered a couple (Particulares) of then last week at 40GBP each. But I acted too slow.

 

[bully1875]

IMHO The BBMFM is Valued between 45 and 75 depending on the source. The Opus 22 Set puts a value of ~43.18. I have 5 that I have paid between 60-75. The Particulares that I have seen for sale were at the upper range of that. I think that one is a close but fair trade. And in my opinion the rest are spot on

E

And for the record. I was offered a couple (Particulares) of then last week at 40GBP each. But I acted too slow.

Great comment. Any chance you have a price on the Particulares anywhere?
Like I previously mentioned, I like the rarity factor, but do not know the msrp..

 

[CigarMan Andy]

IMHO The BBMFM is Valued between 45 and 75 depending on the source. The Opus 22 Set puts a value of ~43.18. I have 5 that I have paid between 60-75. The Particulares that I have seen for sale were at the upper range of that. I think that one is a close but fair trade. And in my opinion the rest are spot on

E

And for the record. I was offered a couple (Particulares) of then last week at 40GBP each. But I acted too slow.

Great comment. Any chance you have a price on the Particulares anywhere?
Like I previously mentioned, I like the rarity factor, but do not know the msrp..

That works. BBMF Maddi $45 is non marked up. Both are rare..

 

[bully1875]

IMHO The BBMFM is Valued between 45 and 75 depending on the source. The Opus 22 Set puts a value of ~43.18. I have 5 that I have paid between 60-75. The Particulares that I have seen for sale were at the upper range of that. I think that one is a close but fair trade. And in my opinion the rest are spot on

E

And for the record. I was offered a couple (Particulares) of then last week at 40GBP each. But I acted too slow.

Great comment. Any chance you have a price on the Particulares anywhere?
Like I previously mentioned, I like the rarity factor, but do not know the msrp..

$229 for a box of five. $45.80 each. That works. BBMF Maddi $45 is non marked up. Both are rare...I linked the site for reference...

Andy, that's the 2001 edition... Jim is putting the 2000 in. Based on that it looks like a go. Hopefully we can get some more feedback..

Thanks for the link.

 

[SPIVY]

IMHO The BBMFM is Valued between 45 and 75 depending on the source. The Opus 22 Set puts a value of ~43.18. I have 5 that I have paid between 60-75. The Particulares that I have seen for sale were at the upper range of that. I think that one is a close but fair trade. And in my opinion the rest are spot on

E

And for the record. I was offered a couple (Particulares) of then last week at 40GBP each. But I acted too slow.

Great comment. Any chance you have a price on the Particulares anywhere?
Like I previously mentioned, I like the rarity factor, but do not know the msrp..

$229 for a box of five. $45.80 each. That works. BBMF Maddi $45 is non marked up. Both are rare...I linked the site for reference...

As Brian said that is a 2001. Also they do not have it in stock and have not had it for a while. I would think this t/p works.

 

[bully1875]

Here are my Puts and Takes-


Take ~for~ Put

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08 ~for~ 48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000
22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded ~for~ 49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000)
29 - Monte # 2 '06 ~for~ 50- Punch Punch from 2006
51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007

I am not right on the money for the Hoyo, but I am pretty confident they where close to the Opus 22 value when they sold fresh, but I could be wrong, so do not etch it in stone. Either way they are expensive now. I have seen them go for $60-$80 a piece if you can find them.

I am going to make one more pass through the box once this is finalized and I will let you know on the VSG .

Jim

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08 ~for~ 48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000 - Still can't find MSRP and I paid $50 for the BBMF, but I like the rarity and im sure the MSRP matches. - GOOD

22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded ~for~ 49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000) - GOOD

29 - Monte # 2 '06 ~for~ 50- Punch Punch from 2006 Punch Punch - Found a source where Monte #2 is $11.08 and Punch Punch is $9.32 - Big gap and rarity is not really a factor here.. Let's discuss this furthur or put a different stick in. - NO GOOD (For Now)

51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007 - THANKS !!

 

[CigarMan Andy]

Here are my Puts and Takes-


Take ~for~ Put

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08 ~for~ 48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000
22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded ~for~ 49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000)
29 - Monte # 2 '06 ~for~ 50- Punch Punch from 2006
51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007

I am not right on the money for the Hoyo, but I am pretty confident they where close to the Opus 22 value when they sold fresh, but I could be wrong, so do not etch it in stone. Either way they are expensive now. I have seen them go for $60-$80 a piece if you can find them.

I am going to make one more pass through the box once this is finalized and I will let you know on the VSG .

Jim

12 - Opus X BBMF Maduro from Opus 22 '08 ~for~ 48- Hoyo de Monterrey Particulares Edicion Limitada 2000 - Still can't find MSRP and I paid $50 for the BBMF, but I like the rarity and im sure the MSRP matches. - GOOD

22 - Cohiba Sig VI '03 – unbanded ~for~ 49- AVO 22 Euro Edition (from canister #241 of 2000) - GOOD

29 - Monte # 2 '06 ~for~ 50- Punch Punch from 2006 Punch Punch - Found a source where Monte #2 is $11.08 and Punch Punch is $9.32 - Big gap and rarity is not really a factor here.. Let's discuss this furthur or put a different stick in. - NO GOOD (For Now)

51- Partagas Series D #4 from 2007 - THANKS !![/b

Monte #2 box price for 25 - $249, or $9.95 each.

 

[stepthirteen]

I am happy to delete the monte/punch if that is what we want to do . I was trying to place sticks in here that I think are worth the time smoking. IMHO the Punch Punch is a smoke that not many mention, but is a great smoke. Anyway I agree with the others. For the record the 2000 Hoyo is even more rare than the 2001 and will simply blow your mind, to quote someone else.

Jim

 

[SPIVY]

I am happy to delete the monte/punch if that is what we want to do . I was trying to place sticks in here that I think are worth the time smoking. IMHO the Punch Punch is a smoke that not many mention, but is a great smoke. Anyway I agree with the others. For the record the 2000 Hoyo is even more rare than the 2001 and will simply blow your mind, to quote someone else.

Jim

Hence why I have been looking for them