Aged Opus, Anejo, Maduro Hemingways

[Gonz]

I am looking for 2-5 year aged cigars to buy or trade for, mostly everyday smokes are what I am looking for. Would love to find a box or two of Original Oliva Master Blends. PM if you got anything with age to trade or sell. Thanks

thanks for the help guys, but i have been taken care of from another Family cigar board.

nope no sarcasm, i posted on both boards at the same time. i did look at the deals but nothing was posted aged good smokes (my opinion). thanks for the help.

I wonder if this is what Gonz is getting at?

This wasn't what I was getting at, but it's sure alarming! Why was mindriot looking for older boxes here? So he could turn around and mark them up and sell them? Sure his prices are absurd, but you all forget, he's doing you the favor of giving you first shot at them!

 

[JHolmes763]

This wasn't what I was getting at, but it's sure alarming! Why was mindriot looking for older boxes here? So he could turn around and mark them up and sell them? Sure his prices are absurd, but you all forget, he's doing you the favor of giving you first shot at them!

You're only saying this because of what he did to your wife. I have no proof of this, but since we're throwing around wild accusations based upon shoddy logic, what the hell...

 

[Gonz]

This wasn't what I was getting at, but it's sure alarming! Why was mindriot looking for older boxes here? So he could turn around and mark them up and sell them? Sure his prices are absurd, but you all forget, he's doing you the favor of giving you first shot at them!

You're only saying this because of what he did to your wife. I have no proof of this, but since we're throwing around wild accusations based upon shoddy logic, what the hell...

As per usual, holmes pipes in with nonsense. Jackass.

And you'd better watch your step if you think for a minute it's ok to say something about my wife.

 

[JayBay]

I used to buy and sell vintage automobiles for a living. I bought a '66 Biscayne once - a nice, straight, rust-free, six cylinder car. I paid about $4,000 for it. After putting it up for sale, it became quickly clear to me that there was a large demand for a car like this for the purposes of building a 427/425 clone. I ended up selling the car for $10,000. I had no obligation to price that car "fairly" based on what I paid for it, or it's original MSRP. As a business owner, I provided a service to those who may not otherwise have access to such an automobile. Both parties win - when the seller makes a profit and the buyer is happy to have found what they're looking for. What I paid for the car is irrelevant.

I am not endorsing unfair business practices, nor am I suggesting that price gouging is acceptable. Furthermore, I am not so stupid as to think comparing a '66 Biscayne to an Opus X is "apples to apples". However, in principle - I am saying that it's okay for a business owner to use his resources to locate product to which the general public may not have access, and do what a business owner is supposed to do with that opportunity; put food on his family's table.

If you choose to wait for aged Opus X cigars to become available at a price you deem as fair, then wait. I'm not sure how Silo runs their business, but if it were mine - complaints about high prices in this case would not make me drop my prices. Personally, I think Silo should be able to sell them for whatever they can get. Sure, somebody who pays a premium for those smokes may bitch about how much they paid, but if they bought - the bottom line is that they wanted the cigars more than they wanted to keep the money they paid for them.

 

[Rodrigo de Jerez]

Guys,

If any of you have a problem with the Silo's prices on rare and aged product then simply do not buy those cigars. So far as I understand, the Silo's aim is provide rare, aged smokes that will be quite hard to find on the open market. You have to consider that these cigars were purchased at MSRP by the vendor himself.

In this case, it appears the consumer is being charged for the service of attaining these cigars and not unreasonably so. Vendors don't just fall onto great quantities of aged product; there is footwork involved. In my opinion, charging any less for aged product would be on the silly side of things.

Just so you guys know, Mindriot is a trustworthy and generous guy. I've had the pleasure of knowing him for a few years now and he has never done anything whatsoever to make me question his character or intentions. Trust me as well, nobody asked me to back up the Silo.

We, as consumers, always have the option to buy certain products from certain retailers. Please, go ahead and buy these rare, aged sticks from another retailer.

-Mark

P.S. Please don't misread my post. I'm not here to attack anybody's position period. I feel the need to issue this disclaimer because sometimes the true meaning of a message can be lost in type.

 

[JHolmes763]

And you'd better watch your step if you think for a minute it's ok to say something about my wife.

I didn't mean anything disrespectful to your wife. Please accept my apology.

 

[MindRiot]

for the record the old links you posted here about my iso was for oliva mater blends in may 07, i didnt start silo cigars until November. not that it matters to some but i have never sold anything i did a iso for personal consumption. hell there are other retailers on here i buy cigars from to smoke simply because i dont have access to them. it is obvious i shouldnt of posted these here and for that i apologize (since they are over msrp, which varies per state due to tobacco tax). i have sent rod a pm about everything. believe me if i could sell opus at msrp or under i would however the simple fact is not alot if any do! msrp does not include tobacco tax or shipping. should there be a premium for aged cigars? i think so. are the prices high? yes. however to say some of the things about me and my company really hurts, i have never bought anything from anyone here or on another board to sell online vintage or current production period. believe me or not that is the truth.

 

[JHolmes763]

SHIFT key, Bro. You know someone will say it. :laugh:

 

[MindRiot]

Lol yeah I know.

 

[Gonz]

I've never said anyone is required to sell Opus at or below msrp. In fact, I've never actually heard of someone getting Opus below msrp from a store or shop unless it was a mistake. My issue is that this sale was presented to us as something exclusive because we're such a bunch of great guys, yet the prices were outrageous. Yes you stated that they were high, and we can only hope that they were high because you got hosed when you bought them in the first place.

As you have stated, it is merely coincidence that you were searching the board(s) looking for aged and HTF cigars right before you opened your store. Unless proven otherwise we'll take your word for it.

They're your cigars and you can do what you want with them. If you want to keep charging double or more of msrp that's your business and good luck with it. There are many of us here who feel that members who don't know any better should be informed before they make hasty purchases of HTF cigars that they have only seen other rave about. If they still want to go ahead and pay that much, fine. But at least they will know there were alternatives, or that they were paying too much.

 

[grateful1]

The question is, are those prices considered 'gouging'.

Regardless of how much you paid(even if you paid $30 a stick and are selling the for $25), if the going rate is $12....then is that gouging.

Another thing to note...taxes. At say $25 a stick...do you charge tax? Where you charged tax when you bought them?

I bet you have to charge it if it's in state...did you pay tax when you bought them from a 'collector' - probably not.

You are a third party reseller. And you're prices are not 'around'(key word here!)...around MSRP.

So...are those prices considered 'gouging'?

Oh yea Gonz...Rod and hte rules talk about being selling at or around 'MSRP'.

 

[KayakinBoy]

In the past, I have made an ass out of myself fighting with dealers about the prices they sell cigars at. I am not going to do that anymore.

Frankly, I do not care if you sold your Opus for $1,000 a pop, I just do not like it being posted here, where new members see it, hear all of us talk about how great it is, and get ripped off. You do offer Opus to the members of this board, and I am sure some of them (including myself at times) have a really hard time finding a few sticks.

Hopefully, you understand where we are coming from.

And yeah, anyone who charges that much for Opus, just because they are "aged", I think it is gouging.

 

[JHolmes763]

So...are those prices considered 'gouging'?

Wikipedia: Price gouging is a pejorative term for a seller pricing much higher than is considered reasonable or fair.

Yes, the prices are high. "Gouging" is a derogatory term that implies Kevin is here to take advantage of us with the price limits he's chosen, though. Although they're too high for me, I don't consider them unreasonable since several people here expressed interest, especially given the short aging and rarity.

So no, I don't consider it gouging.

I think the new members have been alerted that this may not be the best deal for them, if they're willing to wait and shop around. Kevin offers great deals to Brothers on many other cigars, though, so don't make your decision just on this one offer.

---John Holmes...

Edit: fix tags...

 

[Jonesy]

And yeah, anyone who charges that much for Opus, just because they are "aged", I think it is gouging.

Exactly. Being a vendor, he has to make a profit to make a living, but to put such a premium on cigars that are just a few years old is rediculous. Double MSRP isn't acceptable for 3 years age on a cigar no matter who you are, how much you paid for the lot, and what you think is acceptable for 3 years age.

There are those of you that say if you don't like the prices, don't buy them, or buy them from someone else, or I've dealt with him before so he has to be credible. Gouging is gouging no matter who you are or how respected you are. If you're that respected and are such an asset to the community, you wouldn't try to sell us cigars at double MSRP. Just my thoughts on the matter.

 

[Rod]

I've never had a complaint against Kevin. He's offered CP some great deals. I don't believe he was aware of our gouging rule, and I also don't believe he's intentionally gouging the members. Considering the circumstances in which he acquired these cigars, he most likely has little leeway for profit.

My earlier post was nothing more than to prove a point to some of the newer members - we do not allow outright gouging. Other forums do allow gouging, we don't. Looking at Kevin's history here, I would say he's a pretty honest retailer.

My suggestion is to retract this sale, as the prices are high (which it seems are out of Kevin's control, please correct me if I'm wrong), and move on.

 

[uptown_isy]

believe me if i could sell opus at msrp or under i would however the simple fact is not alot if any do! msrp does not include tobacco tax or shipping.

MSRP doesn't include tobacco tax, but the tax is only paid to the state if the cigars were sold in-state. I do not pay NY tobacco taxes if I sold cigars out of state. I wouldn't consider these prices "gouging", as gouging is a strong word, as John put it. However, all my Opus have always been sold at MSRP.

 

[MindRiot]

Ok after speaking with Rod, he thought it would be best to give more detailed information about these cigars and the prices that offend some on the board. To start with the cigars were bought from a person I know, he started working out (alot)around 6 months ago and his wife was running marathons. So needless to say he stopped smoking, the cigars which were over 1000 cigars were offered to me as an all-or-nothing deal. The price was not great considering it was a touch above msrp which in TN the tobacco tax is 6.6% and the retailers never charge msrp because Fuentes like some other vendors are not the same markup. Also along with the Opus, Anejo, and Maduro Hemingways were a ton of other cigars that may or may not be considered Rare or great aged.

This fellow kept his cigars in ziplock bags separated by brand and age not size. He had 8 humidors full of cigars packaged like this. It took us 2 days to seperate cigars per size and date then remove the cigars that had any type of damage or other oddities (missing cello, cracked cedar). So we took into account the age and rarity of aged cigars available for purchase and the time put in sorting, bagging, receiving and shipping related to this purchase/sale. Also, we offer free shipping on ordes over $100 (5% or so). I will agree the prices are high, but if you knew what I paid for them after labor the profit is not good. It does hurt when I am called a gouger. However on a forum of any type, people will draw their own conclusions. In my mind gouging happens on items you must have - gasoline, plywood and generators before a hurricaine, etc. You have no choice but to pay whatever is asked. Cigars are not in this category.

I run a business that must make profit to pay rent, salaries, taxes, etc. I can not sell for less than I pay and stay in business. Nearly every B&M runs on keystone (100% markup) + tobacco ta and then you pay local/state sales tax. $100 + 6.6% TN Tob Tax + 9.25% Sales = $116.46. I bought these from someone who paid these prices and expected his cost and a modest profit for keeping these in good condition for up to 8 years. Would you accept any less for your stash? Most members are not in the position to purchase 1000 aged cigars at one moment. We took the risk, acquired the whole lot and will be forced to write off some portion as unsellable. It will take us time and effort to recoup our outlay and we are entitled to make a fair profit on our investment, same as you.

If you have purchased based on this post we have a 100% return policy, so if you have buyers remorse or think you got screwed call, email or pm me and we will work out the return. That goes for any thing we offer online or in our store, if any one has ever read our terms of agreement you would see that we stand behind the product 100%. If for any reason you are not happy we will refund the purchase Period. We priced the Opus based on MSRP, our time, cost, and the fact that we had to invest a large sum of our capital to acquire these. If you are interested, the Padrons, Maduro Hemingways and Vsg's are really close to msrp because I am able to wiggle on those. So that is the whole story and if I left any thing out I apologize, however we try very hard to source Rare & Aged cigars at decent prices and like others sometimes that doesn't happen. If anyone has any questions feel free to ask.

At Silo, we try and offer the best prices we can on rare, aged, and hard-to-find brands. We have taken heat on more than one occasion from a vendor for over-discounting their product. In our mind a 'hot deal' may mean a great price (which we've offered many times before) or something truly hard to find for most consumers. We prefaced the initial post that they were expensive. Had we purchased regular production cigars and marked them up at keystone + tob tax, nobody would protest - why then is it a crime to do the same with these? At 2x MSRP we are below 'normal' profit margins.

 

[KayakinBoy]

I think we can agree that you are probably not lying about what you paid, but I'm sure you can understand why we are protective of people who just don't know any better. I paid $125 for TAA cigars the first time I went. I paid $20-30 for Opus my first time. Hell, I even bought a Graycliff for $30... :blush:

We are just trying to help educate and keep people from making the same mistakes some of us have.

And I'm not trying to fight, but I know of three shops in Knoxville that sell Opus and other nice Fuente cigars for MSRP. Either way, no hard feelings here.

 

[grateful1]

So...are those prices considered 'gouging'?

Wikipedia: Price gouging is a pejorative term for a seller pricing much higher than is considered reasonable or fair.

Yes, the prices are high. "Gouging" is a derogatory term that implies Kevin is here to take advantage of us with the price limits he's chosen, though. Although they're too high for me, I don't consider them unreasonable since several people here expressed interest, especially given the short aging and rarity.

So no, I don't consider it gouging.

I think the new members have been alerted that this may not be the best deal for them, if they're willing to wait and shop around. Kevin offers great deals to Brothers on many other cigars, though, so don't make your decision just on this one offer.

---John Holmes...

Edit: fix tags...

So, you're saying you are a Libertarian?

<edit to add smiley>

 

[Gonz]

Had we purchased regular production cigars and marked them up at keystone + tob tax, nobody would protest - why then is it a crime to do the same with these? At 2x MSRP we are below 'normal' profit margins.

I think you are making a big assumption in this statement. If you were here trying to sell Rocky Patels and other average cigars I think we'd call you out just the same. Actually, it appears you have some CAO Sopranos at significantly above what they can be had for.

And if at double msrp you are below normal profit margins that you just simply made a bad business decision buying all these cigars.

Furthermore, if this guy was selling his entire stash because he's not into cigars anymore and expecting to get more than he paid he's been smoking alot more than just cigars. I think you will find, if you bother doing some research, that your statements about us expecting to make a profit on cigars that we sell to be downright wrong. That's not the way things work around here, nor most other respectable forums.