50 cent blowout holy crap

[LilBastage]

His first post sounds nothing like a vendor, even though he apparently is the vendor. It is intentionally made to look like he's quoting (and he even has the quotation marks) a great deal he came across.

It seems to me that this practice is a little shady and tigger is correct in pointing it out. If you're offering something for sale and you are the vendor, just put up the offer. Don't try to make it look like you're looking out for your buddies here with some great deal you happened upon. If the cigars are any good at all they should very easily sell themselves at $.50/ea.

 

[Pmagus]

Hey guys-
I REALLY do want to get this right. After 20 years on Madison Avenue in the advertising business, I may let some of my writing instincts get the better of me, BUT bottom line, I was simply offering what I belive to be a very good deal-- how many fifty cent hand-rolled cigars can you buy these days-- and that seems a whole lot more important than the window dressing.

Still, if the presentation rankles, MEA CULPA.
The offer for a wheel on faith still stands.

 

[tigger]

A step in the right direction Paul.

There's nothing wrong with writing good copy. Not that my opinion carries, or should carry much weight, but all you'd need to do to get me off your back when you recommend or sell your products in the future is to make it clear that they're yours.

 

[grateful1]

Hmmm, did I miss an introduction?

 

[bfreebern]

I also think falsely advertising the Pinars as 100% Cuban is pathetic as well:


"After Painstakingly sorting and classifying every single leaf, we combined several of the Cuban tobaccos (with an emphasis on Ligero for classic Cuban strength). The result, rolled 100% from Cuban leaf (filler, binder, and wrapper) is the quintessential Cuban cigar. The flavor is deep, rich and complex while remaining incredibly smooth and easy smoking."

"When you deal with 40+ year old tobacco, some leaf simply isn't perfect. It is rougher, perhaps a little crumbly, yet it is loaded with oils, and great cuban flavor. We use this leaf, completely unblended, 100% Cuban, to create the Pinar Habanitos line of cigars."

 

[stogieman]

Well guys, I have read the thread from start to present and I'm telling you, Paul is a stand up BOTL. I've met him a few time at different events and while on vacation down in Ocean City, MD. Paul donated 10 boxes of great stogies at last years Quad State Herf and five of them were raffles that you can only find overseas. Gary, you may remember Paul from that box of 50 stogies that you carried back to CT. We all can't be Shakespears in our writing skills but I'd back Paul any day on his deals that he offers us. As a matter of fact, I'll give you a call later on Paul and pick up a wheel of this special and try them out. At the worst, I'll send them to my nephew in Iraq but I'm sure that they are a half decent smoke for the money. I just wanted to offer my $0.02 as a friend of Paul and let you all know he's not here to rip you off or anything like that........ :thumbs:

 

[Wurm]

Well the latest European Cigar Cult rated the P Magus maduro torpedo with 4 stars (5 is the best of the best).

I've never seen a P Magus of any type for sale over here, but after the review I'd like to try one.

If Mr. Magus would stop with the shady marketing tactics his cigars might sell by themselves.

Good Rollers / Good Tobacco / Good Cigars / Shady Marketing = Not very many sales.

After the Pinar fiasco, you'd think he would have learned and I'm still hoping he does.

Stogieman saying hes a good guy makes me think he just needs to brush up on his Internet skills and try again.

 

[Diesel Grinch]

Well guys, I have read the thread from start to present and I'm telling you, Paul is a stand up BOTL. I've met him a few time at different events and while on vacation down in Ocean City, MD. Paul donated 10 boxes of great stogies at last years Quad State Herf and five of them were raffles that you can only find overseas. Gary, you may remember Paul from that box of 50 stogies that you carried back to CT. We all can't be Shakespears in our writing skills but I'd back Paul any day on his deals that he offers us. As a matter of fact, I'll give you a call later on Paul and pick up a wheel of this special and try them out. At the worst, I'll send them to my nephew in Iraq but I'm sure that they are a half decent smoke for the money. I just wanted to offer my $0.02 as a friend of Paul and let you all know he's not here to rip you off or anything like that........ :thumbs:

I just sent an E-mail to paul and I'm willing to give it a shot because of the above.

DG

 

[Pmagus]

For the sake of clarity, please understand what we are trying to do. A true factory outlet service is the goal. Nothing shady. We manufacture a variety of brands (our own and several under contract for companies much bigger than us). The cigars we offer in the Factory Outlet are not the same as the ones we distribute to retailers, unless its something discontinued or closed out. We strenuously support our B&M partners and have no wish to compete with them. We are just not big enough to pump out thousands of bundles of lesser cigars under some other name, so we figure to offer them to bargain hunters at low prices. "Cigar Factory Outlet" really says it all.

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

The frequency of inquiries on cigar forums from uninformed cigar consumers regarding Pinars became almost as common as the cello on / cello off questions ; thousands of cigar consumers were taken advantage of by Magus and his marketing ploy of pre embargo tobacco.

It wasn't seasoned cigar consumers that fell prey to the bogus claims, it was the inexperienced who often paid top dollar for these for the promise of smoking a real Cuban. With the holiday gift giving season approaching, imagine how you would feel if Christmas morning, your wife tells you how she purchased these Pinars, ( instead of the Tatuaje Reservas they had in stock) , because she was told they were made with real Cuban tobacco AND they were only $5.00 more per stick!

The current cigar industry is blessed with the some amazing companies producing consistent, tasty cigars with fair prices and ethical marketing - I personally rather support these companies at any cost.

 

[moki]

Dayyyyum
where did you guys learn to play nice?
Anyway I thought you would like this kind of offer.
How about this--
if you're curious, send me an e-mail with address--I'll send you a wheel. If you don't think its worth the $27.50....keep it, for nothing. If you DO think its worth it, THEN send a check.
Now, find a way to rag about THAT.

Throw in a free Ginsu knife & potato peeler and you've got a deal!

 

[moki]

For the sake of clarity, please understand what we are trying to do. A true factory outlet service is the goal. Nothing shady. We manufacture a variety of brands (our own and several under contract for companies much bigger than us). The cigars we offer in the Factory Outlet are not the same as the ones we distribute to retailers, unless its something discontinued or closed out. We strenuously support our B&M partners and have no wish to compete with them. We are just not big enough to pump out thousands of bundles of lesser cigars under some other name, so we figure to offer them to bargain hunters at low prices. "Cigar Factory Outlet" really says it all.

That's fine... but as Tigger aptly pointed out, your presentation made it seem like you stumbled across this great deal on cigars, and was careful to never mention that you had any connection at all to the cigars being sold. This seems disingenuous.

If you want to sell your cigars in the retailer section, do so. There's no need to play games with "great deals" you've run across. State that they are your cigars, and sell them.

 

[DePasta]

The frequency of inquiries on cigar forums from uninformed cigar consumers regarding Pinars became almost as common as the cello on / cello off questions ; thousands of cigar consumers were taken advantage of by Magus and his marketing ploy of pre embargo tobacco.

It wasn't seasoned cigar consumers that fell prey to the bogus claims, it was the inexperienced who often paid top dollar for these for the promise of smoking a real Cuban. With the holiday gift giving season approaching, imagine how you would feel if Christmas morning, your wife tells you how she purchased these Pinars, ( instead of the Tatuaje Reservas they had in stock) , because she was told they were made with real Cuban tobacco AND they were only $5.00 more per stick!

The current cigar industry is blessed with the some amazing companies producing consistent, tasty cigars with fair prices and ethical marketing - I personally rather support these companies at any cost.

Unfortunately that happened to me......have yet to smoke the damn thing! ??? Wonder how age affects these suckers....hmmm

 

[Mrepp]

The frequency of inquiries on cigar forums from uninformed cigar consumers regarding Pinars became almost as common as the cello on / cello off questions ; thousands of cigar consumers were taken advantage of by Magus and his marketing ploy of pre embargo tobacco.

It wasn't seasoned cigar consumers that fell prey to the bogus claims, it was the inexperienced who often paid top dollar for these for the promise of smoking a real Cuban. With the holiday gift giving season approaching, imagine how you would feel if Christmas morning, your wife tells you how she purchased these Pinars, ( instead of the Tatuaje Reservas they had in stock) , because she was told they were made with real Cuban tobacco AND they were only $5.00 more per stick!

The current cigar industry is blessed with the some amazing companies producing consistent, tasty cigars with fair prices and ethical marketing - I personally rather support these companies at any cost.

I've got nothing against you MMM, I just like paying devils advocate. Has there actually been any proof to the contrary that its not pre-embargo Cuban tobacco? I haven't had one personally but just because its Cuban tobacco doesn't mean the cigar's not going to suck.

 

[moki]

I've got nothing against you MMM, I just like paying devils advocate. Has there actually been any proof to the contrary that its not pre-embargo Cuban tobacco? I haven't had one personally but just because its Cuban tobacco doesn't mean the cigar's not going to suck.

I think the burden of proof should fall upon Pinar in this case; they are the ones making some rather... hard to believe claims. For a number of reasons, I really have a hard time believing they "found" this quantity of Cuban tobacco in a warehouse in New Jersey.

Anyway, as you noted, just because the tobacco is Cuban doesn't make it good... and IMHO these cigars suck, no matter where the tobacco comes from.

The funny thing is, the "Cuban Cigar" meme causes many who are new to the game to jump over the cliff and buy these suckers... so it's an effective ploy.

 

[Ginseng]

I've got nothing against you MMM, I just like paying devils advocate. Has there actually been any proof to the contrary that its not pre-embargo Cuban tobacco? I haven't had one personally but just because its Cuban tobacco doesn't mean the cigar's not going to suck.

Let's be clear about one thing regarding the Pinar situation. Extraordinary claims demand extraordinary proof. In this case, the burden of proof is solely on the producer.

Run of the mill claim: My cigars contain tobacco from Honduras.
Level of proof needed: Almost none. We all know Honduras supplies a huge proportion of the tobacco used in NC cigars. If it looks like a cigar and is not a Pepin-branded product, chances are 50/50 it contains Honduran leaf.

Extraordinary claim: My cigars contain 40-year old Cuban tobacco.
Level of proof needed: A helluva lot more than just saying it. If the producer cannot back this up with appropriate, reasonable, verifiable evidence, I have no choice but to dismiss it outright and call "bullshit." Furthermore, personal responsibility to my fellow smokers compels me to express my misgivings about this marketing claim. I would not comment on whether or not they suck, but rather the (un)likelihood that they actually do contain pre-embargo tobacco.

Now, Pinar aside, if this fellow can communicate to us via marketing approaches that we, as a community, deem ethical, then by all means we'll give his products a shake. In this case, perhaps his lack of familiarity with the internet medium is conflated with an approach that seems shady, but he's gotten straight-up advice on how to remedy that. It's all here in black and white.

Wilkey

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

I've got nothing against you MMM, I just like paying devils advocate. Has there actually been any proof to the contrary that its not pre-embargo Cuban tobacco? I haven't had one personally but just because its Cuban tobacco doesn't mean the cigar's not going to suck.

Although I do not have a trained palate for pre embargo tobacco, I did smoke Pinars on two seperate occasions and found nothing Cubanesque about them. In addition, I have yet to read one review from a seasoned Cuban cigar smoker that indicates any plausibility to Magus' claims of Cuban tobacco inclusive. I do not recall Magus providing any support evidence of his marketing claims during the Pinar production era or after.

Why not ask Magus to provide proof considering he was the one who profitted from the sales of his claims?

 

[Mrepp]

Now, Pinar aside, if this fellow can communicate to us via marketing approaches that we, as a community, deem ethical, then by all means we'll give his products a shake. In this case, perhaps his lack of familiarity with the internet medium is conflated with an approach that seems shady, but he's gotten straight-up advice on how to remedy that. It's all here in black and white.

Wilkey

oh no comment about his current marketing scheme

I think the burden of proof should fall upon Pinar in this case; they are the ones making some rather... hard to believe claims. For a number of reasons, I really have a hard time believing they "found" this quantity of Cuban tobacco in a warehouse in New Jersey.

Fair enough, I opened a window for you Paul, lets see how you can respond.

 

[Matt R]

I see no problem with the initial post from Paul. It's quite obvious to me and should be to most people here that he is retailing these cigars. As for the Pinar fiasco, well, it was/is a marketing scheme that is used by tons of advertising people in every market across the board. The claim of 100% Cuban tobacco in the cigars, from what I recall, does not say the netire cigar is Havana leaf. So, if you put one small portion in the cigar, it DOES contain Cuban tobacco, if that is indeed what was done. Now, a few old bales of tobacco, "found" or purchased, can go a long way, if that's what is being done. Sure, it "fools" some consumers, but so does almost all advertising in one way or another. If every business told you the 110% truth, you'd all be raising your own chickens and tomatoes and would never take a trip to the grocery store. Add to that, Paul was not the only one doing this. Our good friend Lars Tetens had 100%, 40 tear old tobacco in some of his cigars when he first started too. I'm all for members here and on the other boards looking out for the other members, but some of you seem to think that we have to "save" everyone else out there purchasing cigars. Screw 'em and let them make their own mistakes. I bought a handful of Pinars a decade or so ago and I recall knowing from the marketing at the time, that the blend had some 100% Cuban leaf in it, but not all of the tobacco was Havana. And, like Andrew, they pretty much sucked and I never bought one again (sorry Paul). But, I think I've bought cigars from almost every manufacturer out there and found at least one of their brands to suck, so I didn't buy those anymore either. Paul's (pmagus) marketing doesn't seem too far off from another "BIG" retailer who continues to grow and really, IMO, caters to those who don't know a lot about what they are buying and not many people seem to give a shit about his sales schemes.

Oh and I don't know Paul, have never met him, to my knowledge and aside from the Pinars I bought years ago, have never bought anything of his. So, don't jump on my ass for shilling.

 

[moki]

Dayyyyum
where did you guys learn to play nice?
Anyway I thought you would like this kind of offer.
How about this--
if you're curious, send me an e-mail with address--I'll send you a wheel. If you don't think its worth the $27.50....keep it, for nothing. If you DO think its worth it, THEN send a check.
Now, find a way to rag about THAT.

Sounds familiar?

...and to add some balance, an article that claims the Cuban tobacco deal was real. Same thing in The New York Times, for what it's worth...