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When it's not alright to pass a "Cuban" cigar

moki said:
sleazy_rider.jpg
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I smoked a gifted cigar...and was ask to do a review and send it to the fellow...it was bland and tasted like a wannabe Davidoff...but looked cuban....I went with a NC guess....and I was not correct. It was actually a well aged cigar that many people enjoy.

Just goes to show....Moki wears glasses! :rolleyes:
 
I still don't agree it's a 50/50 proposition, Ginseng... if you claim you "love Cuban cigars" or "love the Cuban cigar profile" then you should be able to pick out a Cuban from a non-Cuban at better than a coin-flip guess rate. Otherwise, what validity is there to your claim that you "love Cuban cigars" or "love the Cuban cigar profile" if you can't even identify it when you taste it?

None in my book. If you can't walk the walk, don't make the claim... or at least make less specific claims. The profile of a particular marca that you like from Cuba, perhaps...

Blind taste tests are an excellent reality check for all of the superfluous information we've accumulated over the years. It's not a matter of pride or expertise or anything of the kind, it's a matter seeing where your preconceptions and your taste buds meet... because that's where you should be putting your money.

I'm currently the victim in a blind taste testing -- feel free to follow along and laugh at me. I already screwed one up badly... :)
 
Did I miss something? What did cigar #3 end up being?
 
jfields said:
Did I miss something? What did cigar #3 end up being?
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If you mean in my blind taste testing, JC posted the results for cigar #'s 3 & 4 in the thread... about 3/4 of the way down. I said it was a Cabaiguan belicoso, because it was the right vitola, had a very light wrapper (almost looked CT shade to me), and because it didn't taste like any Cuban torpedo I'd ever had.

Turns out it was a Montecristo #2 (one of the most inconsistent cigars on the planet), from an off year (2001), and Dane also was a bit perplexed by that cigar, but he ended up nailing it. I don't feel too bad, though, because he thought cigar #4 was a Cuban Montecristo as well, but I felt it was non-Cuban, and something like an Edge... it ended up being a Pepin torpedo.

Currently in terms of origin, I'm currently 3/4 and Dane is 2/4 (Cuban vs. non)... though I'm sure that will change, as I expect to fail miserably a bit more soon :)
 
Thanks. I saw where Dane guessed a Monte #2, and you a Cabiguan. But, I never saw where the true idenity was shown.
 
Ginseng said:
moki said:
If I hand you a cigar, tell you it is Cuban, and you have a young, impressionable mind, you'll be more inclined to enjoy the cigar. This is why blind taste tests are so important, you take the pretension factor out of the equation altogether.
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Oh goat boffer, of course you'll be inclined to enjoy it more. And why shouldn't you? Smoking for pleasure is not a strictly objective exercise and it is not as unidimensional as the mere "taste" of a cigar. When you smoke a Cuban cigar, you are not just combusting leaf and measuring the byproducts. You're meditating on the tradition of the Cuban cigar and the history of tobacco in the New World. In locking in on the "meme" theory, you're chasing a narrow goal and have devised a fallacious test in an attempt to reveal and discredit this prejudicial mechanism on the assumption that it is by definition, evil.

Does that which has no sensory effect have meaning? Sure. I hand you two bars of soap. One is made by the industrial giant Procter and Gamble while the other is made by company that supports Fair Trade and is made by indigenous peoples in Tanzania. Both are soap. Both work. But I'll feel a lot better about myself buying and using the Fair Trade soap.

If the enjoyment of cigars was strictly premised on an equation of some sort, I sure as hell wouldn't be spending my money or my time doing it.

And as for different from what cigar...I thought I had implied as much in my post. I was speaking of the specific menu of cigars that had led to my developing an ennui for Habanos over the preceding weeks.

Now pull it out of ol' Roscoe, smoke an unbanded cigar and breeeeeeeeeeeeath.

Wilkey
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What do you mean by "Fair Trade?" ???

Are you sure that your Tanzania soap was manufactured not using child labor? How about the equal treatment of men and women in the Tanzania work place? Yep, they do that in Tanzania all the time. :rolleyes: Oh and I'll bet the management structure of this Tanzania soap company doesn't use intimidation, bribes and threats of or actual physical abuse either.......

While this whole "Fair Trade" is a real nice touchy-feely, save-the-world concept, (socialism) it's basically a bunch of crap that doesn't work, go ask the former USSR or the Communists in China. :laugh:

Have you ever read the story about the two immigrants (Mr. Procter and Mr. Gamble) who started that company in 1837? It's a truly moving story of success by two hard working men who were forward thinking innovators that weren't looking to the government for handouts. Did you know that P&G established a profit sharing plan for its employees in 1887? This was LONG before many companies did things like this for their workers during the industrial revolution.

I don't know about you but I feel much more comfortable about myself buying a product from a fine, established company that has a proven history of success, responsibility and oh yeah, treating their workers properly for you "union" folks ;) that is right here in the good ole USA (they started and are still located in Cincinnati, Ohio).

I'd also feel a whole lot better about myself buying a Procter & Gamble product that indirectly benefits jonesy and probably quite a few other CP brothers with my purchase than some third world scammers who more likely than use child labor and abuse women during the manufacture of their "Fair Trade" soap.

Wasn't the original topic here something about when not to pass a "Cuban" cigar? ???

1. DO NOT "put" a Cuban cigar in a pass that you "took" from a pass when you don't have 100% confidence in the integrity of the person who originally put that cigar.

2. KNOW YOUR SOURCES. "hildagohabanos" is NOT a good one nor is any other one who claims they save you shipping costs because their company's president is a pilot who ships the cigar himself on his private plane.
 
Just a hypothetical here...

What if I have someone has very, very sensitive girly skin and I'm worried they're worried that the Tanzanian soap might not be mild enough and could cause a horrific outbreak of itching, burning rash on 95% of my their body?

Is is then acceptable for me to get someone to buy the Proctor and Gamble?
 

This thread is being topped for all the new folks and the big spring passing season about to begin. I would advise newer/inexperienced members to read up to post #21 for the relevant content.

Wilkey
 
vortex said:
Burnt Tongue said:
I don't think they should be passed as gifts or in bombs, or for that matter in passes that occur in the US. Because they are illegal there are some in the US who would prefer to not have them in their humidors.
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Without doubt one should try and tailor a gift to the wants of the recipient. Usually, the profile has some info. Also, wish lists are a good source.

The rule of law has been tossed to the wayside in this country and should be a big issue in elections.
That being said, there is also a great tradition of civil disobedience in this country and it's use to affect change in unjust laws can't be over-stated. But it does require accepting the punishment in order to bring the discrepancy to light. The problem with that today is the stigma attached to breaking the law. Often the punishment for victimless crime is much harsher than the crime itself.
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So y'all don't have to search for thread #21. :D


Dan
 
Lightninrod said:
vortex said:
Burnt Tongue said:
I don't think they should be passed as gifts or in bombs, or for that matter in passes that occur in the US. Because they are illegal there are some in the US who would prefer to not have them in their humidors.
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Without doubt one should try and tailor a gift to the wants of the recipient. Usually, the profile has some info. Also, wish lists are a good source.

The rule of law has been tossed to the wayside in this country and should be a big issue in elections.
That being said, there is also a great tradition of civil disobedience in this country and it's use to affect change in unjust laws can't be over-stated. But it does require accepting the punishment in order to bring the discrepancy to light. The problem with that today is the stigma attached to breaking the law. Often the punishment for victimless crime is much harsher than the crime itself.
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So y'all don't have to search for thread #21. :D


Dan
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:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Read more!
 
Hello everyone. I'm a newbie on this board, and after reading this post I was just curious as to whether or not Blue Dragon and/or Mark Twain ended up taking the blind test. If so, what were the results? This was a very interesting and insightful thread, especially for a newb...
 
Welcome MN...you might have a greater response here if you posted in the Intro forum. :)
 
Anyone care to enlighten me on what this above post is in reference too? Feel free to pm me!
 
So wilkey, why do you keep ignoring my points about your "Free Trade" soap? ???

You do know that for the most part Tanzania is backwards, corrupt cesspool, don't you?
 
Since joining this board I have received a few fake cigars in trades and that where purchased. Being a new member I didn't feel comfortable coming forward with the info until recently. At which point I contacted Rod and Ginseng to discuss how to handle this. I am waiting to get a responce from the parties involved to remedy this. Pictures of some of the cigars where taken and sent to Rod for verification that they where in fact fake even though imo it was obvious.I believe the parties involved where not trying to scam me and just unaware of the fact that they had fakes and have messaged them and would like to give them time to come forward on there own.

Thanks
Josh

edited to add posted this in both threads.
 
Thanks for coming forth, Josh. I hope you can get this issue resolved.

If you wouldn't mind, I'd love to see the photos too.

Wilkey
 
Ginseng said:
I'm topping this thread. Please read the opening post and the first page. Beyond that the thread gets clogged up with distracting chatter but concentrate on the first post.


When is it NOT alright to give out a "Cuban" cigar?
1. When you do not know without a doubt that the cigars in question are authentic Cuban cigars. The risk is higher if:

1a. You don't don't know what that particular Cuban cigar should look like or taste like.
1b. You have not verified the authenticity by smoking (if you have experience with the genuine article.)
Wilkey
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Um...Besides your posts and those of others with more knowledge than me, how would I know. It is sort of the downfall of the whole thing. I don't know what one really looks likes, and if I've only been smoking fakes then the real thing would seem like the fake to me.

For example if you sent a cigar to me and told me it was authentic, having very limited experience in the matter, would have to except you at your word. Even if that means that it goes against what the facts are telling em. (I am not trying to imply that you should or would, just using it a point of reference.)

I guess my point is that as a newbie you have no real way to measure the validity of your cigar, you just lack the experience to make the distinction.
 
Breedy said:
Ginseng said:
I'm topping this thread. Please read the opening post and the first page. Beyond that the thread gets clogged up with distracting chatter but concentrate on the first post.


When is it NOT alright to give out a "Cuban" cigar?
1. When you do not know without a doubt that the cigars in question are authentic Cuban cigars. The risk is higher if:

1a. You don't don't know what that particular Cuban cigar should look like or taste like.
1b. You have not verified the authenticity by smoking (if you have experience with the genuine article.)
Wilkey
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Um...Besides your posts and those of others with more knowledge than me, how would I know. It is sort of the downfall of the whole thing. I don't know what one really looks likes, and if I've only been smoking fakes then the real thing would seem like the fake to me.

For example if you sent a cigar to me and told me it was authentic, having very limited experience in the matter, would have to except you at your word. Even if that means that it goes against what the facts are telling em. (I am not trying to imply that you should or would, just using it a point of reference.)

I guess my point is that as a newbie you have no real way to measure the validity of your cigar, you just lack the experience to make the distinction.
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That would be a cigar you don't pass/trade/sell. That's the point of the original post.

Basically, if you don't know, you should hang on to the cigar and smoke it NOT put it in someone else's hands.
 
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