The Letters - Update December 21, 2008

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

I'm processing some OFAC documents that have recently been cited on another board. I believe there might be some information as to the triggering of the W and R-Letters.

I have a strange feeling that all the wonderful info Wilkey gives us comes from the fact that he is really a super computer attached to a draw machine.

Yeah, I get the impression that Wilkey must be a physicist or a lawyer or something. I enjoy listening to him.

Actually, I heard he was a Russian spy.

 

[PSTAN]

Came across this link/informaiton posted on another board. It is interesting to read.

 

[alexgtp]

Came across this link/informaiton posted on another board. It is interesting to read.

This is freaking scary.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Came across this link/informaiton posted on another board. It is interesting to read.

The New York Times has an article on the same subject, with a bit more info.

I wonder if there's a simpler explanation behind this.....doing some digging.

Regards - B.B.S.

 

[grateful1]

The linked news stories are old news. This stuff was reported back in at least 2005...and some earlier.
This goes back to asking..HOW the fed picked these people out to receive letters. I don't think it's relational.

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

The linked news stories are old news. This stuff was reported back in at least 2005...and some earlier.
This goes back to asking..HOW the fed picked these people out to receive letters. I don't think it's relational.

Well, assuming that the implication in the article, that a lot of the people being investigated are military, contractors with the military, and/or former military (at least, I kind of read that), I wonder if the people getting letters have connections to the military (knowing the large percentage of vets/active duty folk on here). Not that I'd like to think that the US gov't is screwing its own, but it wouldn't be the first time...

 

[vortex]

It's all about controlling the population - the "consumers". Quite arbitrary. You think anyone really gives a damn about whether or what we smoke? But there is great concern about whether we obey. And, of course, whether any revenue can be gleaned!

It also occurs to me that this thread, while it is pertinent to cigar smoking, it is also fraught with political undertones. What could be more political than an embargo and it's enforcement?

It's also VERY interesting. I, for one, am glad this thread is being explored! :thumbs:

 

[eltex]

I must applaud everyone involved with this thread. For those of us who don't post much, it has allowed us to remain somewhat up to date on what fellow BOTL's are going through right now. Lets hope that things will settle down and those who have gotten the letter find a satisfactory resolution soon. :thumbs:



Centex

 

[vudu9]

The linked news stories are old news. This stuff was reported back in at least 2005...and some earlier.
This goes back to asking..HOW the fed picked these people out to receive letters. I don't think it's relational.

Well, assuming that the implication in the article, that a lot of the people being investigated are military, contractors with the military, and/or former military (at least, I kind of read that), I wonder if the people getting letters have connections to the military (knowing the large percentage of vets/active duty folk on here). Not that I'd like to think that the US gov't is screwing its own, but it wouldn't be the first time...

Yep - population control. I'm big into conspiracy.

 

[moki]

It's all about controlling the population - the "consumers". Quite arbitrary. You think anyone really gives a damn about whether or what we smoke? But there is great concern about whether we obey. And, of course, whether any revenue can be gleaned!

Anyone got a spare tinfoil hat?

 

[DePasta]

 

[Mark Twain]

Sheesh

Everyone knows that only copper keeps the government out of your head. That's why I line my room with it. Still doesn't help with the voices though.

 

[drew_goring]

Well, I am the recipient of one of the first Canadian "letters"

I am currently living in Calgary, and have been for the past 7 months, but I had a letter sent to my "permanant" in Saskatchewan. I just heard it read over the phone by a family member, but am having it sent to me this week. Basically "reminding" me of my tax obligations, etc. Kind of weird because I haven't had cigars delivered to that address for probably closer to 9 months.

:laugh:

 

[Infinity]

Well, I am the recipient of one of the first Canadian "letters"

I am currently living in Calgary, and have been for the past 7 months, but I had a letter sent to my "permanant" in Saskatchewan. I just heard it read over the phone by a family member, but am having it sent to me this week. Basically "reminding" me of my tax obligations, etc. Kind of weird because I haven't had cigars delivered to that address for probably closer to 9 months.

:laugh:

Oops! Just when you thought that Canadians don't need a tinfoil hat :laugh:

Brian

 

[Ginseng]

Brian,

Your bump is very timely. As of late, there has not been much to report. The one individual whom I've been following is in negotiations with OFAC. This was the fellow who ignored the R-Letter. He subsequently received a Prepenalty Notice advising him of a maximum penalty of $1,170. He is presently trying to get that penalty reduced. His intended response is to admit to two purchases under $250 value to try and get the penalty down to $500.

Anectdotally, letters are still being received although no one is publically admitting it.

***********************************************

UPDATE February 26, 2007

My source made a mistake and in so doing, gave me erroneous information. Here are portions of our communications.

I received the warning letter after using XXX vendor and their XXX payment processing option using XXX major credit card

to which I responded:

When was this purchase made? What was the approximate dollar value? I'm guessing under $500. Was this purchase made between March 2004 and August 2005?

and received this in return:

Within the last month... under $500

I subsequently received communications from the vendor in question. He raised some relevant points regarding the new payment gateway and the timing of the letter and in fact at least one member contacted me with questions about this as well. I passed on to my source what was given to me by the vendor and finally received this:

Oh hell, my mistake. I dug out the letter..it was dated 1/31/07 referring to a purchase 12/24/04. Since I picked up the package from XXX vendor and the certified letter at the same time @ the post office... I put the 2 together and mis-read the dates (year)of purchase.

So, the bottom line is as follows:

1. The period of interest as far as the OFAC investigation has not changed and remains early 2004 to late 2005.

2. I am aware of no reports of letters being received for purchases made in 2006 or 2007.

3. I am aware of no reports of letters being received in response to purchases made through any of the recently established payment processing gateways.

4. Nobody has any plausible explanation of OFAC's motivation for this specific investigation. We simply do not know what the triggers for this sweep are although the rules and laws are documented and clear. In other words, no one knows why now and why only this time frame of interest.

I deeply regret that I presented inaccurate information to the community. In my haste to inform others of what I perceived as a new and imminent threat, I checked but did not double check my information. And for that I apologize to the community members as well as the vendor. I will continue to maintain that my primary responsibility is to obtain, analyze, and disclose relevant information to my fellow cigar smokers but from this point onward, I will maintain open communications with the vendor as well.

As to whether this or any vendor should be placed on "no-buy" lists, I leave that to your individual discretion and risk tolerance level.

Wilkey

***********************************************

UPDATE February 25, 2007 - RESCINDED and RETRACTED
Late Breaking News - I just received a first hand report of a W-Letter being received for a purchase under $500 made within the last month to one of the targeted Hong Kong-based vendors. There are two truly troubling aspects to this notification.

1. The purchase was recent, thus negating the prior assumption that the only period of interest was early 2004 to late 2005. Clearly, the attention this vendor is receiving is ongoing and intensive.

2. This purchase was made using the second, newly established payment gateway. This means that all known payment options are at risk. Further, the evidence now strongly suggests that the two major credit card providers (of cards in traditional or pre-paid format) are implicated in the turning over of purchase and account information to OFAC.

Based on this most recent disclosure, I'm motivated to publically voice my position on this vendor. This is the position I've been offering in response to private inquiries. This vendor should be placed on the "No-Buy" list until further notice. Furthermore, I would place all vendors from the Hong Kong region on the "No-Buy" list.

Another prominent forum has recently expressed the intent to throttle down the "look what Cuban cigars I just bought" threads in response to this climate of scrutiny. Prior to these events, this forum was well known for this type of public disclosure and some would say flouting of the law. Now it appears that the situation has become sufficiently worrisome for them to change something fundamental to their culture.

Folks, these are dangerous times. Be safe.

Wilkey

 

[davew0670]

is it illegal to purchase ANYTHING from companies that sell cuban cigars? Ive purchased quite a few accesories from companies that sell cuban cigars.

 

[Satchmo]

is it illegal to purchase ANYTHING from companies that sell cuban cigars? Ive purchased quite a few accesories from companies that sell cuban cigars.

That was my thought, certain Hong Kong vendors also sell accesories, etc. If a purchase was detect and one was confronted with it, what would happen if the answer to the inquiry was the purchase of a humidor?

Quade

 

[Ginseng]

is it illegal to purchase ANYTHING from companies that sell cuban cigars? Ive purchased quite a few accesories from companies that sell cuban cigars.

That was my thought, certain Hong Kong vendors also sell accesories, etc. If a purchase was detect and one was confronted with it, what would happen if the answer to the inquiry was the purchase of a humidor?

Quade

I would say that unless one were prepared to go in front of a federal judge and show him the humidor in question, this might not be a tactic one would want to undertake.

As they say in the social services, the only "safe" sex is no sex.

Wilkey

 

[Satchmo]

is it illegal to purchase ANYTHING from companies that sell cuban cigars? Ive purchased quite a few accesories from companies that sell cuban cigars.

That was my thought, certain Hong Kong vendors also sell accesories, etc. If a purchase was detect and one was confronted with it, what would happen if the answer to the inquiry was the purchase of a humidor?

Quade

I would say that unless one were prepared to go in front of a federal judge and show him the humidor in question, this might not be a tactic one would want to undertake.

As they say in the social services, the only "safe" sex is no sex.

Wilkey

I hear what you are saying, Wilkey. I was not recommending this. It should provide a reason for making a purchase (highly unlikely reason). I am not sure what lengths the government would take given that response. I would not want to be the one to test their commitment.

Quade

 

[Dave]

is it illegal to purchase ANYTHING from companies that sell cuban cigars? Ive purchased quite a few accesories from companies that sell cuban cigars.

That was my thought, certain Hong Kong vendors also sell accesories, etc. If a purchase was detect and one was confronted with it, what would happen if the answer to the inquiry was the purchase of a humidor?

Quade

I would say that unless one were prepared to go in front of a federal judge and show him the humidor in question, this might not be a tactic one would want to undertake.

As they say in the social services, the only "safe" sex is no sex.

Wilkey

Quite a shame, seeing as how one of these vendors also happen to sell the MRN book, although they are not based in Hong Kong.

As for the funneling of "look what Cuban cigars I bought" threads, does this also apply to our non-U.S. citizens/residents?