Fake Davidoff and Dunhills sold on CP

[Wurm]

I don't know who AB is. I don't know Tim.

What I do know is this: if a guy asked me to put my reputation on the line to broker cigars for him to my brothers on this or any other board in exchange for a discount on the purchase of a few of the cigars in question, my spidey sense would be all atingle. How could anyone be that naive? As I said, I don't know Tim but color me skeptical.

And most of us have no clue who you are.

 

[bfreebern]

Tim - thanks for the clarification, but I still have a hard time with this whole situation. I don't think it should have ever been allowed to happen, not due to hindsight, but due to the fact that so many things could go wrong. Unfortunately they did and now nobody can truly be held accountable, due to the fact that the true seller isn't a member here, just the broker.

I'm going to agree with Van55 on this, despite my many trades/dealings with Tim. Who is this AB guy and how well does/did Tim know him? I know these questions are moot at this point, but we should have seriously taken several looks at this before it ever happened. Numerous guys got screwed on this deal and now we're at a point where nobody will ever see any resolution, while the forums now have many many more fakes floating around.

We now have to take a serious look at every transaction, if we weren't already and if we need to call bullshit, we call bullshit. It's sad that it's come to this, but being the community we are, we are now forced to be that much more protective/skeptical.

 

[Devil Doc]

Tim - thanks for the clarification, but I still have a hard time with this whole situation. I don't think it should have ever been allowed to happen, not due to hindsight, but due to the fact that so many things could go wrong. Unfortunately they did and now nobody can truly be held accountable, due to the fact that the true seller isn't a member here, just the broker.

I'm going to agree with Van55 on this, despite my many trades/dealings with Tim. Who is this AB guy and how well does/did Tim know him? I know these questions are moot at this point, but we should have seriously taken several looks at this before it ever happened. Numerous guys got screwed on this deal and now we're at a point where nobody will ever see any resolution, while the forums now have many many more fakes floating around.

We now have to take a serious look at every transaction, if we weren't already and if we need to call bullshit, we call bullshit. It's sad that it's come to this, but being the community we are, we are now forced to be that much more protective/skeptical.

You mean go back to the way it used to be, before we became kinder and gentler?

Doc.

 

[tone-ny]

Tim - thanks for the clarification, but I still have a hard time with this whole situation. I don't think it should have ever been allowed to happen, not due to hindsight, but due to the fact that so many things could go wrong. Unfortunately they did and now nobody can truly be held accountable, due to the fact that the true seller isn't a member here, just the broker.

I'm going to agree with Van55 on this, despite my many trades/dealings with Tim. Who is this AB guy and how well does/did Tim know him? I know these questions are moot at this point, but we should have seriously taken several looks at this before it ever happened. Numerous guys got screwed on this deal and now we're at a point where nobody will ever see any resolution, while the forums now have many many more fakes floating around.

We now have to take a serious look at every transaction, if we weren't already and if we need to call bullshit, we call bullshit. It's sad that it's come to this, but being the community we are, we are now forced to be that much more protective/skeptical.

You mean go back to the way it used to be, before we became kinder and gentler?

Doc.

YUP!

 

[mmburtch]

While (snip) is a trustworthy guy, I'm really not a fan of these types of sales. I'm sure no harm was intended, however CP is about a community atmosphere; if we allow members to sell cigars for their friends, they're skirting around the 4 month rule. The purpose of the 4 month rule is a privilege earned to the member, not their friends. I will amend the rules to clarify this.

Again, I'm sure no harm was intended, however I prefer not to host these types of sales in the future as there are too many factors that could go wrong. This isn't about the people involved in this sale, it's about future sales, and creating more possibilities for things to go wrong. Our track record at CP is pretty damn good because of the rules we have in place; I'm not a fan of the "buyer beware" mentality that other cigar forums adopt. Again, nothing personal here...please proceed. However in the future, sales for friends will not be allowed simply because of the increased risk involved.

Hindsight... or was it foresight?

 

[tone-ny]

While (snip) is a trustworthy guy, I'm really not a fan of these types of sales. I'm sure no harm was intended, however CP is about a community atmosphere; if we allow members to sell cigars for their friends, they're skirting around the 4 month rule. The purpose of the 4 month rule is a privilege earned to the member, not their friends. I will amend the rules to clarify this.

Again, I'm sure no harm was intended, however I prefer not to host these types of sales in the future as there are too many factors that could go wrong. This isn't about the people involved in this sale, it's about future sales, and creating more possibilities for things to go wrong. Our track record at CP is pretty damn good because of the rules we have in place; I'm not a fan of the "buyer beware" mentality that other cigar forums adopt. Again, nothing personal here...please proceed. However in the future, sales for friends will not be allowed simply because of the increased risk involved.

Hindsight... or was it foresight?

Tim's sale happened in February of 2009!

 

[Van55]

I don't know who AB is. I don't know Tim.

What I do know is this: if a guy asked me to put my reputation on the line to broker cigars for him to my brothers on this or any other board in exchange for a discount on the purchase of a few of the cigars in question, my spidey sense would be all atingle. How could anyone be that naive? As I said, I don't know Tim but color me skeptical.

And most of us have no clue who you are.

Why does who I am matter?

I am nobody to speak of. I have been on cigar boards since 2002. I practice law. I have read the posts on this thread and the other threads on this issue.

And I have a certain amount of common sense.

Consider this setup without your friendship with Tim obscuring your own common sense: A friend of yours says he wants to sell some "excess stock" of rare and expensive cigars. He knows you are a member of Cigar Pass with a good reputation here. He says you can have a couple of the cigars he is offering for, say, a 25% discount if only you will offer the cigars at Cigar Pass. But not only are you to offer the cigars for sale, you are to collect the sales proceeds and turn them over to your friend, after which he will mail out the cigars. He will remain nameless in your offer to sell the cigars and thereafter. Considered objectively, does this arrangement really pass your smell test?

 

[bfreebern]

You mean go back to the way it used to be, before we became kinder and gentler?

Doc.

Yes sir.

 

[grateful1]

I don't know who AB is. I don't know Tim.

What I do know is this: if a guy asked me to put my reputation on the line to broker cigars for him to my brothers on this or any other board in exchange for a discount on the purchase of a few of the cigars in question, my spidey sense would be all atingle. How could anyone be that naive? As I said, I don't know Tim but color me skeptical.

And most of us have no clue who you are.

Why does who I am matter?

I am nobody to speak of. I have been on cigar boards since 2002. I practice law. I have read the posts on this thread and the other threads on this issue.

And I have a certain amount of common sense.

Consider this setup without your friendship with Tim obscuring your own common sense: A friend of yours says he wants to sell some "excess stock" of rare and expensive cigars. He knows you are a member of Cigar Pass with a good reputation here. He says you can have a couple of the cigars he is offering for, say, a 25% discount if only you will offer the cigars at Cigar Pass. But not only are you to offer the cigars for sale, you are to collect the sales proceeds and turn them over to your friend, after which he will mail out the cigars. He will remain nameless in your offer to sell the cigars and thereafter. Considered objectively, does this arrangement really pass your smell test?

Van, we don't normally have these types of sales on CP without Rod's ok.
You normally have to have the stock in hand.

Two things regarding this sale...it was an adjunct to the sales on ICC. It was brought to us by a trusted member...and the sale on ICC continued as well.
From what I gather, the whispers in the back room of ICC were never brought out here....otherwise it would have been discussed in the open.

Ah...I see, your saying it should have been Tim to initially see the 'red flag'. On that I agree, but I was not in his shoes to see what he saw..

It does bother me that TIm was given a discount, when he was asked in the sale if he was getting anything.

AB - might be 'Alan/Bruce' as that's was the chain.

---------------------------

Tim - I'm sorry you got in the middle of this one.

 

[insight]

AB is allenB

 

[siriusstoogie]

So if you have inventory left from this, what is the recourse?

 

[tone-ny]

So if you have inventory left from this, what is the recourse?

That's a good question Joe, I'm personally chalking it up to experience!

 

[Wurm]

I don't know who AB is. I don't know Tim.

What I do know is this: if a guy asked me to put my reputation on the line to broker cigars for him to my brothers on this or any other board in exchange for a discount on the purchase of a few of the cigars in question, my spidey sense would be all atingle. How could anyone be that naive? As I said, I don't know Tim but color me skeptical.

And most of us have no clue who you are.

Why does who I am matter?

I am nobody to speak of. I have been on cigar boards since 2002. I practice law. I have read the posts on this thread and the other threads on this issue.

And I have a certain amount of common sense.

Consider this setup without your friendship with Tim obscuring your own common sense: A friend of yours says he wants to sell some "excess stock" of rare and expensive cigars. He knows you are a member of Cigar Pass with a good reputation here. He says you can have a couple of the cigars he is offering for, say, a 25% discount if only you will offer the cigars at Cigar Pass. But not only are you to offer the cigars for sale, you are to collect the sales proceeds and turn them over to your friend, after which he will mail out the cigars. He will remain nameless in your offer to sell the cigars and thereafter. Considered objectively, does this arrangement really pass your smell test?

It only matters in relationship to your last post. And in regards to my common-sense, I don't chase after VHTF cigars because the few I have had didn't impress me much. My common-sense also tells me setting over a hundred dollars on fire is stupid.

As I have said before, the people who thought things were fishy back then should have set off the sirens right then and there, if they had of, we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.

So if you have inventory left from this, what is the recourse?

Smoke them. Just don't trade them or gift them.

 

[Devil Doc]

Tim - thanks for the clarification, but I still have a hard time with this whole situation. I don't think it should have ever been allowed to happen, not due to hindsight, but due to the fact that so many things could go wrong. Unfortunately they did and now nobody can truly be held accountable, due to the fact that the true seller isn't a member here, just the broker.

I'm going to agree with Van55 on this, despite my many trades/dealings with Tim. Who is this AB guy and how well does/did Tim know him? I know these questions are moot at this point, but we should have seriously taken several looks at this before it ever happened. Numerous guys got screwed on this deal and now we're at a point where nobody will ever see any resolution, while the forums now have many many more fakes floating around.

We now have to take a serious look at every transaction, if we weren't already and if we need to call bullshit, we call bullshit. It's sad that it's come to this, but being the community we are, we are now forced to be that much more protective/skeptical.

You mean go back to the way it used to be, before we became kinder and gentler?

Doc.

YUP!

You mean go back to the way it used to be, before we became kinder and gentler?

Doc.

Yes sir.

Well, I agree. I never was much for that kinder and gentler BS.

Doc.

 

[Wurm]

Since when did we become kinder and gentler? I still see people who screw up being called on it all the time.

BTW is there any more info in regards to the fake cigars forthcoming? The posts about the bands and wrappers was great but surely there is more.

 

[tone-ny]

Since when did we become kinder and gentler? I still see people who screw up being called on it all the time.

BTW is there any more info in regards to the fake cigars forthcoming? The posts about the bands and wrappers was great but surely there is more.

No we stopped calling out folks right away, and we have let a stuff slide that wouldn't have passed muster.

 

[mmburtch]

While (snip) is a trustworthy guy, I'm really not a fan of these types of sales. I'm sure no harm was intended, however CP is about a community atmosphere; if we allow members to sell cigars for their friends, they're skirting around the 4 month rule. The purpose of the 4 month rule is a privilege earned to the member, not their friends. I will amend the rules to clarify this.

Again, I'm sure no harm was intended, however I prefer not to host these types of sales in the future as there are too many factors that could go wrong. This isn't about the people involved in this sale, it's about future sales, and creating more possibilities for things to go wrong. Our track record at CP is pretty damn good because of the rules we have in place; I'm not a fan of the "buyer beware" mentality that other cigar forums adopt. Again, nothing personal here...please proceed. However in the future, sales for friends will not be allowed simply because of the increased risk involved.

Hindsight... or was it foresight?

Tim's sale happened in February of 2009!

Sorry, poorly worded. My intention was to comment on Rod's post in hindsight, and notice how prophetic it was.

 

[dagoR6]

Why not out Bruce and Allan at this point? Post up all of their info and put them on the scumbag list.

 

[grateful1]

Why not out Bruce and Allan at this point? Post up all of their info and put them on the scumbag list.

That's been done. see below
This is an adjuct thread to hte main one on ICC, where this all really started.

 

[insight]

AB hasn't been added yet, Bruce and Chibnkr were added over the weekend.