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Barry Bonds

Gator

Gator

Well-Known Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2005
Messages
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Location
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Truly a great accomplishment, shame it's tainted by his 'roid use and Barry being such an ahole. When all that crap came out, if Barry had come clean somewhat (legality issues?) and been humble, then things would probably be different. Roids make you bigger and stronger, but the skills required to size up a pitch and the eye hand coordination required doesn't come from roids, i don't think...
 
To a certain extent, I agree. It does take a lot of skill to hit the ball, especially at that level and he did it in fewer games and times at bat. But could he have been able to do it without the roids (that statement is my belief that he juiced most of his career)? I think the record is truly tainted.

I also give a lot of respect to Hank Aaron, he played at 5'10" and 185 lbs and was an athlete that most respected and many admired.

Now I just wonder, how good would Babe Ruth have been if he conditioned (other than with cigars, booze and women, which I admire)?

Ken
 
Barry's lack of class and use of steroids have ruined the title of Home Run King. He'll be remembered for his abuse of steroids and many fans won't forgive/forget that he cheated to gain the title. With luck, A Rod will take the title from him in the next 4-5 years and he'll do it naturally.
 
How many times has he tested clean compared to not? Should Mickey Mantel's HR's be discounted because he took pain pills and speedballs? What about the pitchers who may have taken substances throwing at him, their strikeouts & ERA don't count?

Until there is proof or he admits it you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Its the American way for the American game.
 
That will always be a question with no answers. As far as Bonds I see no reason to care, he is a cheat and as Frank said an ass. Yeah, it takes a lot of skill and eye hand coordination, but there are hundreds of players out there who have it that are clean and you don’t see them crushing the ball. In my book, yes he did break the record, but he did it in an unethical way.
 
Barry Bonds Rookie card

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AVB said:
How many times has he tested clean compared to not? Should Mickey Mantel's HR's be discounted because he took pain pills and speedballs? What about the pitchers who may have taken substances throwing at him, their strikeouts & ERA don't count?

Until there is proof or he admits it you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Its the American way for the American game.
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I am so glad to see that at least one person has not lost their minds. I read somewhere, and if one of the smarter guys on the board can tell me where I would really be thankful, that you are innocent until proven guilty. Maybe it was a misprint, who knows.

I will concede the fact that he is an ass, and he always has been, at lest that never changed.

Tim
 
Last I recall, Ty Cobb was a helluva player, but an asshole. So you in part blame Bonds' relationship with the media? That's funny to me.
 
AVB said:
How many times has he tested clean compared to not? Should Mickey Mantel's HR's be discounted because he took pain pills and speedballs? What about the pitchers who may have taken substances throwing at him, their strikeouts & ERA don't count?

Until there is proof or he admits it you have to give him the benefit of the doubt. Its the American way for the American game.
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That is true Ray, but he's a pretty classless individual. He won't donate anything to the HoF so they can have it to commemorative his accomplishments. When he hit his 72nd home run, the HoF had to get home plate from the stadium so there was something there for people to see because he wouldn't give them anything. How about Mark McGwire. He never admitted to using steriods and nothing has been proven that he has, but his silence and refusal to answer speaks for itself. If you haven't done anything wrong, then why not just say you haven't done anything. Sorry, just had to vent for a minute (wasn't venting against you or what you said Ray, just venting in general). These guys make so much friggin money and always seem to want a handout (making millions a year then strike because they want more in their pension?? give me a friggin break) and act like a$$holes, that they've brought it onto themselves. I could go on and on but I won't.
 
You can take silence and use it in all sorts of interesting ways. By that reasoning we have to assume that Karl Rove, Harriet Myers and Dick Cheney and by default the President is/are guilty of innumerable things because of their silence.

Just another way of looking at things, one has to be consistent you know.
 
Bonds owns the record, end of story. He still continues to be an arrogant misanthrope whose legacy will always be tainted.
 
Innocent until proven guilty is an honored legal standing we have in this country but does not have bearing on whatever opinion we have of him. Using steroids was not illegal, no more than using pine pitch as a pitcher. It was cheating a game and it's fans. Common sense dictates that if had not used steroids he would still have been a great player but would not have nearly the amount of home runs. His numbers took a jump during the time his physique changed abnormally. Steroids or HGH are the most logical explanation. Perhaps it was a miracle. Here is what Bonds himself said:

"There are some things I can't understand right now - the balls I used to line off the wall are lining out (of the park). I can't tell you why. Call God. Ask Him. It's like, 'Wow.' I can't understand it, either. I try to figure it out, and I can't figure it out."
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— Bonds, on his home run outburst, quoted in Baseball Weekly, May 21, 2001.

We have to believe something. Do you believe in miracles? Is this what God is busy doing? That would explain a lot. The simplest answer is usually the best and that would be he cheated. Not the first hall of famer to cheat but he is, imo, caught. This record will have an asterisk on it in my mind until ARod breaks it.
 
I was listening to Mike and Mike this morning and I think they put it well. He was the best of an era. It ends up being the steroid era but an entire era none the less. Could you claim Babe Ruth to be the best hitter in his day when no black players were included in his games? Many people feel Josh Gibson was a better pure hitter. There is something you can say for every hitter and every era to discredit them and their accomplishments.
 
nicktressler said:
I was listening to Mike and Mike this morning and I think they put it well. He was the best of an era. It ends up being the steroid era but an entire era none the less. Could you claim Babe Ruth to be the best hitter in his day when no black players were included in his games? Many people feel Josh Gibson was a better pure hitter. There is something you can say for every hitter and every era to discredit them and their accomplishments.
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I disagree, there is no way to discredit Hank Aaron's achievment. The man is a gentleman who had death threats because of the color of his skin when he was getting ready to pass Ruth's record. He my friend is a true hero in my book. Plus he had to face some of the greatest pitchers Bob Gibson in particular.
 
Well I mean theres no question he used. Thats not up to dispute. He admitted to taking what ever was giving to him before the grand jury. He tested positive its there. Whats at dispute right now is weather or not he knew what he was taking. I'd like to think ignorance isn't an excuse.


How many times has he tested clean compared to not? Should Mickey Mantel's HR's be discounted because he took pain pills and speedballs? What about the pitchers who may have taken substances throwing at him, their strikeouts & ERA don't count?
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I'd like to think there’s a significant difference between taking performance enhancing drugs, as opposed to something like pain killers to get over an injury and take down the inflammation.
 
Obviously there is a question that he used or we wouldn't be having this discussion. He has never tested positive for steroids but did fail an amphetamine test in 2006 and by MLB policy was tested for the next 6 months. Under baseball's amphetamines policy, which went into effect last season, players are not publicly identified for a first positive test. so even that isn't a lock.

If you have a link that says otherwise I'd like to see it.

Mrepp said:
Well I mean theres no question he used. Thats not up to dispute. He admitted to taking what ever was giving to him before the grand jury. He tested positive its there.
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your right he did only test positive for amphetamine, but i mean the guys head grew...

AVB said:
Obviously there is a question that he used or we wouldn't be having this discussion. He has never tested positive for steroids but did fail an amphetamine test in 2006 and by MLB policy was tested for the next 6 months. Under baseball's amphetamines policy, which went into effect last season, players are not publicly identified for a first positive test. so even that isn't a lock.

If you have a link that says otherwise I'd like to see it.

Mrepp said:
Well I mean theres no question he used. Thats not up to dispute. He admitted to taking what ever was giving to him before the grand jury. He tested positive its there.
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
He is the best player we have seen in this era. He belongs in the top 5 players of all-time discussion. He has done it all. Walks, Runs, RBI, Stolen Bases. He was the consumate 5 tool player and is a first ballot HOF.

Why does anyone even care if he took steroids? His job is to play baseball and entertain. Do you really care how he does it? If you do, why not question everyone else? Steroids wasn't even a banned substance at the time. How many homeruns did he hit off pitchers who were taking steroids? I'm sure it was many. However, I don't care and for the life of me, I cannot figure out why anyone else does. If he was the only one, I could see it. But it was the whole damn league.

It is pieces of shit like Pedro Gomez that have singled him out and have perpetuated the hatred.

Give Barry his due. You don't have to like him as a person (his attitude is a big part of the reason he gets treated this way) but the man has hit more homeruns than any other person to have ever played the game. It is the greatest individual sports record and he is the King. Until A-Rod smashes it in a few years.
 
You still have to be a stud to hit a 95+ mph fastball or a 75 change up, etc. No matter how much steroids you take, it's not going to better your hand/eye coordination.

Now, I can't stand him as a player, but I'll give him kudos for reaching this milestone.
 
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