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You crazy hunters......
- Thread starter gawntrail
- Start date
Just some updated info from local (Milwaukee) TV and papers.stevehawk said:
In the affidavits (spell?) the shooter claims he stopped firing and threw what was left of his ammo in the lake. He also claimed someone shot at him first, and he returned fire.
As for the group having only 1 gun, they were only a short distance from their cabin, so maybe they were not in active hunting mode (I am not a hunter, just my thoughts).
As for someone here mentioning that they must have not been "real" hunters because they were out in week one, from what I know of Wisconsin hunters and from what I get from the local news, is that they are regular hunters.
2 of the victims were father daughter.
One of the wounded died last nite (early today) so the count now is 6.
Horse
Member 200
- Joined
- Aug 1, 2001
- Messages
- 2,981
I've now found my newest...
"What do you think, darling? Should I hate him?"
"You don't even know him."
"Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him. "
Other, calling Kenny a Jackass will get you absolutely nowhere around here. And btw, absolutely no one was pointing their comments at you back on page 1. Matter-o-fact, there may be a total of (1) person on this board that actually gives two sh*ts about what you have to say.
"What do you think, darling? Should I hate him?"
"You don't even know him."
"Yes, but there's just something about him. Something around the eyes, I don't know, reminds me of... me. No. I'm sure of it, I hate him. "
Other, calling Kenny a Jackass will get you absolutely nowhere around here. And btw, absolutely no one was pointing their comments at you back on page 1. Matter-o-fact, there may be a total of (1) person on this board that actually gives two sh*ts about what you have to say.
If nobody cares what I have to say I invite everyone to STFU already and stop throwing their two cents in.
And nobody was aiming their comments at me? Are you serioues? I can only assume you didn't actually even read the thread.
And nobody was aiming their comments at me? Are you serioues? I can only assume you didn't actually even read the thread.
Ok, I'm a little late showing up here, sorry guys.
As for the nut job, no he is clearly not your typicle hunter, more like whako hunter. People who knew claimed he was an avid hunter, but not really if this is the way he thinks trespassing then shooting at people as well.
I thought it very strange that the party shot at only had one gun between them all as well. I could be wrong here, but the key to me seems to be that it was a group from elswhere that comes to this property every year to hunt as a group. What you have here is a city folk expidition out to the country to hunt. The one gun they had may not have even been theres even, it may have been provided by the land owner. It's the least he could do for what hes charging those city folk and all.
The article I read claimed the SKS was compleatly leagal for hunting in that state and the sherriff discussing it even confirmed that they are somewhat common for hunting in that state. Here in Kansas that is a legal rifle for hunting with as well. The only requirement here is that the gun be of a caliber greater then .223. There is no provision at all for magazine size when hunting anything other then birds. Pheasant, ducks, geese and all the other birds all have a magazine limit, but not deer or other hunted animals. For deer there is a bullet requirement of soft pointed ammunition though so you do need to pick up a box of the good stuff.
I will further say I have seen several people hunt with SKS and even loaned mine to a coworker to hunt deer with before. They are a cheap but accurate gun, and if your hunting muley's you don't always need to reach out all that far anyway. A hundred yards is often more then enough and readily accomplishable with the open sights. In fact, the ballistics compare VERY similarly with a .30-30 and how many deer have been killed with one of them over the century. In my case the guy in question didn't have a rifle of his own and while he was more then welcome to use my 7mm Rem Mag while he was with me, I certainly wasn't loaning it to him to take home with him. I needed it myself for one thing, plus I'm a little protective of a rig that expensive. The season for rifles here is so short though we thought it would be good for him to have a rifle he could take out with him even if I wasn't available to go. It worked out very well for him.
My last point here is actually more of a question. I'm no net boards expert here so can I get a rulling on other1 here? Is his behavior with the inuendos and such actually troll behavior? Or is that only for non-members that try stir the sh**? Anyone? Can I get a rulling here please??
I really don't think I need a rulling on when he called Kenny a jackass though. That very clearly crossed the line and I can't see where Rod wouldn't have every right to ban this account for such behavior so outside the lines. There is a way to respectfully disagree with each other and this guy clearly doesn't have a clue.
Perhaps others will know that have been around more then I here lately. Is this other1's first time this far past the line?? Seems to me I remeber him involved in other cr** in the past but I myself don't remeber the exact details. In any case if this is a self moferated forum now perhaps this should be an issue for the moderators to deal with? Perhaps the moderators should make a recomendation to Rod??
As for the nut job, no he is clearly not your typicle hunter, more like whako hunter. People who knew claimed he was an avid hunter, but not really if this is the way he thinks trespassing then shooting at people as well.
I thought it very strange that the party shot at only had one gun between them all as well. I could be wrong here, but the key to me seems to be that it was a group from elswhere that comes to this property every year to hunt as a group. What you have here is a city folk expidition out to the country to hunt. The one gun they had may not have even been theres even, it may have been provided by the land owner. It's the least he could do for what hes charging those city folk and all.
The article I read claimed the SKS was compleatly leagal for hunting in that state and the sherriff discussing it even confirmed that they are somewhat common for hunting in that state. Here in Kansas that is a legal rifle for hunting with as well. The only requirement here is that the gun be of a caliber greater then .223. There is no provision at all for magazine size when hunting anything other then birds. Pheasant, ducks, geese and all the other birds all have a magazine limit, but not deer or other hunted animals. For deer there is a bullet requirement of soft pointed ammunition though so you do need to pick up a box of the good stuff.
I will further say I have seen several people hunt with SKS and even loaned mine to a coworker to hunt deer with before. They are a cheap but accurate gun, and if your hunting muley's you don't always need to reach out all that far anyway. A hundred yards is often more then enough and readily accomplishable with the open sights. In fact, the ballistics compare VERY similarly with a .30-30 and how many deer have been killed with one of them over the century. In my case the guy in question didn't have a rifle of his own and while he was more then welcome to use my 7mm Rem Mag while he was with me, I certainly wasn't loaning it to him to take home with him. I needed it myself for one thing, plus I'm a little protective of a rig that expensive. The season for rifles here is so short though we thought it would be good for him to have a rifle he could take out with him even if I wasn't available to go. It worked out very well for him.
My last point here is actually more of a question. I'm no net boards expert here so can I get a rulling on other1 here? Is his behavior with the inuendos and such actually troll behavior? Or is that only for non-members that try stir the sh**? Anyone? Can I get a rulling here please??
I really don't think I need a rulling on when he called Kenny a jackass though. That very clearly crossed the line and I can't see where Rod wouldn't have every right to ban this account for such behavior so outside the lines. There is a way to respectfully disagree with each other and this guy clearly doesn't have a clue.
Perhaps others will know that have been around more then I here lately. Is this other1's first time this far past the line?? Seems to me I remeber him involved in other cr** in the past but I myself don't remeber the exact details. In any case if this is a self moferated forum now perhaps this should be an issue for the moderators to deal with? Perhaps the moderators should make a recomendation to Rod??
Because sometimes people are rude to me and I won't sit back and just take it.
I don't care for being called ignorant or having my integrity questioned. There are plenty of people on this board who know me better than that.
I don't care for being called ignorant or having my integrity questioned. There are plenty of people on this board who know me better than that.
Excellent movie! Great lines! The history in it is cr**, they screw it up completly, but Val Kilmer plays his part great.Horse said:
I'm your huckleberry.
I wish I could remeber the guys name with the shot gun, but Why so and so, you mad cap, where you goin with that shot gun??
I'll reserve judgment on Other1 for now, but I'm more bothered by another matter altogether at the present moment.
The news and politics thread was closed for a reason, and this illustrates why. It wasn't just a politics thread, it was the NEWS and politics thread. For awhile now, news and political topics have been posted in the lobby when they shouldn't have been in the first place. I've made some sarcastic references on a few of them about the thread being re-opened, but apparently some folks aren't getting the clue. I'll be sure and be more straightforward in the future should it continue. :sneaky: Rod gave us a chance, and we all blew it. However, that doesn't mean that a few members of this community should take it upon themselves to somehow turn the lobby into a mini-board of news and political happenings. Hopefully these kinds of posts will stop and we won't have to worry about CP members fighting due to a NEWS (and politics) issue.
The news and politics thread was closed for a reason, and this illustrates why. It wasn't just a politics thread, it was the NEWS and politics thread. For awhile now, news and political topics have been posted in the lobby when they shouldn't have been in the first place. I've made some sarcastic references on a few of them about the thread being re-opened, but apparently some folks aren't getting the clue. I'll be sure and be more straightforward in the future should it continue. :sneaky: Rod gave us a chance, and we all blew it. However, that doesn't mean that a few members of this community should take it upon themselves to somehow turn the lobby into a mini-board of news and political happenings. Hopefully these kinds of posts will stop and we won't have to worry about CP members fighting due to a NEWS (and politics) issue.
SKYDIVNEKD
Call me "Walt Kowalski"
- Joined
- Jul 24, 2001
- Messages
- 3,789
SFG...point well taken!
However, if one is NOT looking to stir up $hit, why would one post an intentionally vague/inflammatory statement and then leave it at that?! If a discussion is to be had, would this type of post not be counter-productive?! If one's stance is on one side of the fence, why would one intentionally lead others to believe otherwise?!
My initial post refers to a postion, when taken, is in fact ignorant and emotion based. Being led to believe this may be Other1's opinion, I questioned his take on the topic. Nothing more. No flame intended.
Floyd T.
However, if one is NOT looking to stir up $hit, why would one post an intentionally vague/inflammatory statement and then leave it at that?! If a discussion is to be had, would this type of post not be counter-productive?! If one's stance is on one side of the fence, why would one intentionally lead others to believe otherwise?!
My initial post refers to a postion, when taken, is in fact ignorant and emotion based. Being led to believe this may be Other1's opinion, I questioned his take on the topic. Nothing more. No flame intended.
Floyd T.
You are very wrong on that assumtion. 3 of the 6 were from Rice Lake (Population 8,038 ), nowhere near being "city folk". Rice Lake is 51 miles from Hayward where the killings happened. Most were very experienced hunters, one of the dead hunted since he was 12.gibu said:I thought it very strange that the party shot at only had one gun between them all as well. I could be wrong here, but the key to me seems to be that it was a group from elswhere that comes to this property every year to hunt as a group. What you have here is a city folk expidition out to the country to hunt. The one gun they had may not have even been theres even, it may have been provided by the land owner. It's the least he could do for what hes charging those city folk and all.
The following From http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov04/277848.asp
Deer camps are an institution in Wisconsin - families, friends and co-workers get together each year on opening weekend to head into the woods and hunt.
Every year they gather: Sons joining their fathers; nephews and nieces joining their uncles; friends joining their hunting buddies - all making sure their vacation days coincide with the annual nine-day season.
So it was for Bob Crotteau and his son Joey, for Terry Willers and his daughter Jessica, for brothers-in-law Lauren Hesebeck and Denny Drew, for Crotteau's neighbor and fishing buddy, Al Laski, and for Mark Roidt, who was joining the deer camp on 400 acres in southern Sawyer County for the first time, a guest of Drew.
Jessica Willers, 27, lived in Green Bay but returned to her hometown to hunt with her Dad every year.
------------------------
Just thought I'd add some facts here, so people don't assume these were some sort of bumpkins out lost in the woods. Just because there was "only one gun" doesnt mean anything. They could have been going to the cabin to get their guns.
I would think we really ought to be able to post anything in the lobby and still be able to treat each other with a little common respect. If some wish to remove the percieved deviceivness of politics then so be it. When the subjects start getting broader though then the enjoyment of the site really goes down. Are we children? Or are we adults??
I would think the issue here is peoples beghavior and the common respect that should imparted to each other rather then the subject matter. Other people might think name calling such as that displayed is no big deal, the way of the world, or whatever other excuse that can be thought of. I personally would think it cuts right to exactly how a person see's others around themselves and just how little respect they have for others around them.
In this case there wasn't even a thin veil of humor or good natured ribbing. Not even the ever so thinist veneer. Not that that is allways enough to disguise the truth of things, but still thats not even the case here anyway. I have absolutly no problem passing judgement here. I'll do it in a heartbeat. Theres no place for it here if our community is going to contue to be the place that many of us remeber it to be. Quite frankly it almost certainly never will be and thats very disapointing, but then thats another subject. The lack of respect other1 shows to his fellow community members and the board here it's self that is our community is a major contributing reason for this decline. Disrespect shown by him and others.
Before anyone gets the idea it's just because I disagree with other1 should think again. I have my opinions for certain as many can directly testify to. I try to have a live and let live attitude towords others opions though and respect their right to those opionons no matter how big of nut job they happen to be. Provided of course that respect is returned. There are many on this site that have posted contrasting points of view that I have never responded to because they made a logical respectful case that they are entitled to make and theres no point arguing, just make your case and let it go.
I also have no problems discussing tactics I disagree with even from peoples who's viewpoint I completly agree with. I'll mention this because Kenny has mentioned it openly in previous threads. Quite a while back Kenny was being very pointed with someone on a subject I don't even remember now. I PM'd Kenny back and forth a few times over the benifits of reponding positivly and tactfully to people and improving the positivness of our site. I won't go into all now because I don't even remember all I said now, or even feel quite the same now as I did then I'm sure, but the point is I disagreed with him completely even though I agreed with what he was saying. While were at it Kenny and I disagreed in the PM's quite a bit as well, but he made a good case, was respectful about his case, and I completly seen his side of things even if I did still completly disagree with his tactics still.
Other1 right from the start of his posts was trollin for trouble, trying to cause problems, and that in and of it's self was being disrespectful to our site and all of us that would like to enjoy ourselves here. That can slide though and just be chalked up to a poor upbringing and an obvious lack of golden rule reinforcement. Unfortunately that level of disrespect is all too common. The jackass comment left the line way behind though and shouldn't be chalked up to anything. It shouldn't be tolerated in any way if theres even a hope for our community to remain the way many of us remember it.
I would think the issue here is peoples beghavior and the common respect that should imparted to each other rather then the subject matter. Other people might think name calling such as that displayed is no big deal, the way of the world, or whatever other excuse that can be thought of. I personally would think it cuts right to exactly how a person see's others around themselves and just how little respect they have for others around them.
In this case there wasn't even a thin veil of humor or good natured ribbing. Not even the ever so thinist veneer. Not that that is allways enough to disguise the truth of things, but still thats not even the case here anyway. I have absolutly no problem passing judgement here. I'll do it in a heartbeat. Theres no place for it here if our community is going to contue to be the place that many of us remeber it to be. Quite frankly it almost certainly never will be and thats very disapointing, but then thats another subject. The lack of respect other1 shows to his fellow community members and the board here it's self that is our community is a major contributing reason for this decline. Disrespect shown by him and others.
Before anyone gets the idea it's just because I disagree with other1 should think again. I have my opinions for certain as many can directly testify to. I try to have a live and let live attitude towords others opions though and respect their right to those opionons no matter how big of nut job they happen to be. Provided of course that respect is returned. There are many on this site that have posted contrasting points of view that I have never responded to because they made a logical respectful case that they are entitled to make and theres no point arguing, just make your case and let it go.
I also have no problems discussing tactics I disagree with even from peoples who's viewpoint I completly agree with. I'll mention this because Kenny has mentioned it openly in previous threads. Quite a while back Kenny was being very pointed with someone on a subject I don't even remember now. I PM'd Kenny back and forth a few times over the benifits of reponding positivly and tactfully to people and improving the positivness of our site. I won't go into all now because I don't even remember all I said now, or even feel quite the same now as I did then I'm sure, but the point is I disagreed with him completely even though I agreed with what he was saying. While were at it Kenny and I disagreed in the PM's quite a bit as well, but he made a good case, was respectful about his case, and I completly seen his side of things even if I did still completly disagree with his tactics still.
Other1 right from the start of his posts was trollin for trouble, trying to cause problems, and that in and of it's self was being disrespectful to our site and all of us that would like to enjoy ourselves here. That can slide though and just be chalked up to a poor upbringing and an obvious lack of golden rule reinforcement. Unfortunately that level of disrespect is all too common. The jackass comment left the line way behind though and shouldn't be chalked up to anything. It shouldn't be tolerated in any way if theres even a hope for our community to remain the way many of us remember it.
Good point, good thing I included the "I could be wrong".Maggs44 said:You are very wrong on that assumtion. 3 of the 6 were from Rice Lake (Population 8,038 ), nowhere near being "city folk". Rice Lake is 51 miles from Hayward where the killings happened. Most were very experienced hunters, one of the dead hunted since he was 12.gibu said:I thought it very strange that the party shot at only had one gun between them all as well. I could be wrong here, but the key to me seems to be that it was a group from elswhere that comes to this property every year to hunt as a group. What you have here is a city folk expidition out to the country to hunt. The one gun they had may not have even been theres even, it may have been provided by the land owner. It's the least he could do for what hes charging those city folk and all.
The following From http://www.jsonline.com/news/state/nov04/277848.asp
Deer camps are an institution in Wisconsin - families, friends and co-workers get together each year on opening weekend to head into the woods and hunt.
Every year they gather: Sons joining their fathers; nephews and nieces joining their uncles; friends joining their hunting buddies - all making sure their vacation days coincide with the annual nine-day season.
So it was for Bob Crotteau and his son Joey, for Terry Willers and his daughter Jessica, for brothers-in-law Lauren Hesebeck and Denny Drew, for Crotteau's neighbor and fishing buddy, Al Laski, and for Mark Roidt, who was joining the deer camp on 400 acres in southern Sawyer County for the first time, a guest of Drew.
Jessica Willers, 27, lived in Green Bay but returned to her hometown to hunt with her Dad every year.
------------------------
Just thought I'd add some facts here, so people don't assume these were some sort of bumpkins out lost in the woods. Just because there was "only one gun" doesnt mean anything. They could have been going to the cabin to get their guns.
Thats a whole different type of hunting then I'm used to. Here we just drive around in 4X4's dinking and shooting out the windows.
In all seriousness though that is a great tradition that would create a lifetime of great memories and it is very sad a whacko would bring it to such a tragic end for so many.
Just a quick edit to add that I like mags post corecting my false asumption quite a bit. A tradition like that is a great example of all the greatest things about hunting.
Kenny and I haven't said one word to eachother in about 20 posts yet people keep beating this dead horse. I'll say it for the third time. Enough is enough, let's move on. Does everyone really need to chime in on a matter that doesn't involve them?
I called Kenny a jackass, yes, this was rude. Let me take this moment to apologize, I shouldn't have taken things to such a childish level. I only did so out of frustration caused by what I saw as multiple personal attacks. Maybe I misconstrued what some people meant, I know other people misconstrued some of what I meant.
It's amazing all this started because of a simple joking comment I made, which, again, said NOTHING. Anyway, I've had enough. Topic closed as far as I'm concerned. Kenny, once again I apologize for name calling, it was uncalled for.
I called Kenny a jackass, yes, this was rude. Let me take this moment to apologize, I shouldn't have taken things to such a childish level. I only did so out of frustration caused by what I saw as multiple personal attacks. Maybe I misconstrued what some people meant, I know other people misconstrued some of what I meant.
It's amazing all this started because of a simple joking comment I made, which, again, said NOTHING. Anyway, I've had enough. Topic closed as far as I'm concerned. Kenny, once again I apologize for name calling, it was uncalled for.
Yea, if I managed to some how loose my mind and behave the same way (which has happened before I have to admit), I too would be eager to encourage people to just move on and forget about it as quickly as possible.other1 said:
This does involve me a great deal though. This is as much my site as anyone elses (well except for Rod the actual owner) and I very much disagree with where behavior like this takes my site and what it does to it. In addition I respect Kenny and disaprove a great deal of the way he was treated. Although I would disaprove of anyone being treated that way here.
You can try to say all of this started just because you said nothing but it's quite clear to many just what the cause really was, and it wasn't nothing. No matter what started it though it's equally clear just what magnified it.
Your appology is a good start. I would recomend more respect for the site as well with less behavior such as what began this. Only time will tell though provided you have that kind of time.
I don't know, I remember bigmac and another poor soul being chased from thread to thread about their wrongs. Whenever they tried to post, someone would follow and keep dragging stuff up. At least that isn't happening to you by someone and their vengeful friends. I think biggie wanted things dropped, but I don't remember people being too accomodating about that.other1 said:
Yes, you did say something. A sarcastic comment is one that makes a statement through inference. You invited people to share what that inference was by using the word "imagine" in your first thread. You can't ask them to "imagine" what your thoughts were on this and not expect a response. I don't buy the apology at all, you're just embarrassed because people caught you on something and you don't like the position that you are in now. You've apologized, but still admit nothing. That shows that you aren't sorry for what you called him, you are sorry that you somehow got yourself pinned down to this and can't wiggle out of it so easy. By inviting people to "imagine" what you think, then telling them to "STFU," as well as then telling them to forget it, how can you honestly expect them to just drop it?? And besides, what do you care what other people post on a public thread? Why would we presume that you want this to just drop anyways? After all, twice you said you were making your last comments and that wasn't the case in either post. So if you aren't going to drop it........