Wiskers and Paws Pass !

[NullSmurf]

Ah, you're full of shit and you probably smell bad!

 

[CoventryCat86]

Ah, you're full of shit and you probably smell bad!

You made me cry and ruined my day. I hope you're happy now.....




















:laugh:

 

[cigarsarge]

Bill...Why do you even care. You are not in the pass. It seems like you would feel better it this pass fell flat on it's face. Why bother?

Did you just stop in to make trouble? Why bother? ???

I don't want the pass to "(fall) flat on it's face." If you participated here more often, you'd be more informed as to why people ask questions out in the open which is contrary to how you operate.

Run along now....

Rod knows exactly why I don't post here as often as I used to. You are on a personal vendetta against Dan. That is very obvious.

You don't run this board...I'll run along when I feel like it...Or when Rod tells me to do so.

The only one here with a personal vendetta is YOU Ken which is very obvious.

I participate here regularly and have for well over four years. You on the other hand have not.

You really should just run along as I suggested to you earlier. Any further BS from you will only do you more harm, not me. Your inability to grasp that simple concept is disturbing.

It's no secret I don't like you Bill....It's not a vendetta. I leave you alone until you start your attacks against well meaning people like Dan.

I'm here on a daily basis...I don't always post. I did not know one had to post every single day.

You really should take a long look in the mirror. You have done your self in with all the BS you have spewed. Notice all your "troops" are not exactly rallying around you anymore. Your inability to to see what you have done to yourself concerns me. I think you enjoy anything that puts yourself in the center of attention. In other words you are acting in a childish manner.

You started this garbage. If you really had concerns about the rules you could have handled it like a man. A simple PM to Dan would have handled the problem. Instead you let your personal hate take over. You look really bad Bill...Really bad.

Like I said earlier...You don't run this board. Telling me to run along ain't gonna work. Any valid points you may have made are lost in the rest of your garbage.

 

[Dave]

Anyone can offer criticism before, during, or after a pass - it happens all the time. Bill, you have valid points about rules 3 and 7, but the rest are a stretch. Your obvious disdain for Dan clouds your arguments and makes them look petty and pointless.

So if ANYONE else here had the same criticisms of this pass host's rules, they would have more validity? ??? Okay, I admit I was obnoxious when I initially criticized the rules, I'm sorry but whether any of you think I like or don't like said pass host obviously clouds your judgment in determining if my criticisms are valid or not.

What is obviously happening now is that some people posting here refuse to accept the fact that I have valid points and I respectfully disagree with you Bruce but I think my objection to rule #4 is one of the MORE valid ones there is. I have NEVER participated in a pass where people posted their P/T's BEFORE the pass arrived at their house. I don't know about the rest of you but I make up my mind when the pass is laid out in front of me and I strongly believe that it is unreasonable to insist that a pass participant post their P/Ts BEFORE they even see the cigars. How do you know if one of the cigars you're thinking of taking isn't damaged or described incorrectly?

Regarding rule #5, I have always felt that the "Havana for Havana and NC for NC" is not a good rule at all and I really don't feel like writing a novel here as to why but let's face it, there are PLENTY of valid, reasonable points to argue against that rule. Here's one, I have an Añejo 77 that is a perfectly acceptable put while taking an SLR Serie A but under the proposed rule, that would be a violation.

My criticism of rule #6 is probably the strongest and most valid one of the whole bunch. As I mentioned in a previous post, if the next guy to receive the pass isn't watching the thread 24/7, how is demanding the sender post "Hey I'm sending the pass" add any value here at all? I can't tell you the number of times I've been involved in passes and I don't watch the threads and literally forget I have one coming. I'll come home and lo and behold, there's a box on my front door step that I have no idea where it came from. Then when I realize it's a pass, there have been times that I don't even know which Cigar board the pass is from. Not a big deal, heck even part of the fun is solving the mystery but even if the guy who sent it to me posted in the thread "Hey CC86, the pass is on it's way to you" and if I NEVER saw the post, then WTF good did it do?

I'll lay down some constructive suggestions.

Rule #4 - It just expedites the puts/takes. Hell, if I get the pass and I feel I don't want the originally proposed take, I'll gladly converse with the pass host and await approval.

Rule #5 - I don't like this rule either. To me a cigar is just a cigar. When the situation arises, I'm sure the pass host will produce a satisfactory result.

Rule #6 - If the next participant doesn't say he/she is ready, then don't send it. In the end it is the responsibility of the passer and the pass recipient to make some sort of arrangement, either through PM, public post, or even a phone call. I personally made this mistake earlier and sent it out when the next pass participant said he was ready, but an unexpected event occurred last minute. I will get a phone number next time and make real time arrangements.

As a request, please don't bring any further personal conflicts into this pass thread. Although I find it entertaining, it is detracting from the objectivity.

 

[CoventryCat86]

I'll lay down some constructive suggestions.

Rule #4 - It just expedites the puts/takes. Hell, if I get the pass and I feel I don't want the originally proposed take, I'll gladly converse with the pass host and await approval.

Rule #5 - I don't like this rule either. To me a cigar is just a cigar. When the situation arises, I'm sure the pass host will produce a satisfactory result.

Rule #6 - If the next participant doesn't say he/she is ready, then don't send it. In the end it is the responsibility of the passer and the pass recipient to make some sort of arrangement, either through PM, public post, or even a phone call. I personally made this mistake earlier and sent it out when the next pass participant said he was ready, but an unexpected event occurred last minute. I will get a phone number next time and make real time arrangements.

As a request, please don't bring any further personal conflicts into this pass thread. Although I find it entertaining, it is detracting from the objectivity.

How does rule #4 "expedite the puts/takes?" ??? And if it did "expedite" this, what value does that add to the running of the pass? Are you saying that it will save time somehow? If that's what you're trying to say then I respectfully don't agree with that at all.

You make a very good point regarding Rule #6 but what you're proposing is very much different from what the current rules states however I'm not really sure that it's necessary. I say just send the pass and the likelihood of problems arising because the receiver wasn't "ready" are very few and far between. However, you certainly raise an interesting point that should probably be discussed further.

Another thing that people seem to be hung up on (not just you but a general attitude that I've seen lately and not back in the "day' so to speak) is this whole mentality that the host is some kind of freakin' dictator when it comes to the pass. On the other hand, I feel that participants have just as much if not more "say" in the goings on regarding the particulars of a pass. That's just an opinion I have which others may disagree with.

 

[Rod]

Please continue. Anymore disruption from anyone and they're getting suspended for 2 weeks.

The rules of a pass have always allowed the host to create their own rules so long as they're ethical and fair. Use your best judgment.

 

[SweetMelissa]

I would personally like to get back to the FUN of this pass and get the pussy goin! The rules are fine and I don't believe there is anything malicious about them and I do believe Dan only wanted to have a fun pass for everyone involved. So Dan, here's to a great pass...and for those that choose not to participate? Then go on about your day and watch from the sidelines...

happy weekend!!

Melly

 

[ggiese]

Making mistakes is a normal part of living - how you deal with those mistakes defines who you are.

Painful as it is - discussion about these issues has always been one of the things that has made this community better than the rest. Some people hate to read and see criticism -and there are cigar boards that cater to that crowd. This board has ALWAYS been about open and frank discussion.

Dan - Bill PMing you his thoughts on your rules does you some good (if you're willing to take the criticism to heart) but does nothing for the rest of the community. CigarPass has always been about talking in the open about issues. Sorry it's in this thread - but the rules were first posted here. I'm not sure where else you think it should be discussed...

Let's all put our personal feelings aside - Bill you make some very valid points about the rules... :thumbs:

 

[prophetic_joe]

Dan - Bill PMing you his thoughts on your rules does you some good (if you're willing to take the criticism to heart) but does nothing for the rest of the community. CigarPass has always been about talking in the open about issues. Sorry it's in this thread - but the rules were first posted here. I'm not sure where else you think it should be discussed...

Let's all put our personal feelings aside - Bill you make some very valid points about the rules... :thumbs:

Haven't posted in a long time but I do visit the site a read threads everyday, I was just drawn in by the word pussy sue me. Anyway, George technically, and it has been said by others already, the rules were first post in the puppy pass, or at least the majority of them were. I am aware that Bill has a dislike for Dan and it does seem kind of odd that Bill would mention his concerns in Dan's pass and not in the Puppy Pass. I am willing to believe that it may have just been Bill didn't see the Puppy Pass and like me just had to look in here because of the word Pussy attached to it. I do find it a bit suspect however. I agree there are valid points I just have some questions about motive.

 

[Rod]

I'm calling for this pass to be stopped right now. Apparently there are issues that need to be addressed before this goes any further. I want everything out in the open now, and I want those who feel so strongly about why this pass is unfair to speak up.

I am not going to tolerate receiving multiple PM's a day about how there are personal issues between Dan and Bill, how Bill's picking on Dan, how Dan's hosting an unfair pass, etc... I have bigger things to deal with than this childish bullshit.

Dan/Bill - Whatever there is between you two, keep it OFF of this forum! Bill/George/Others - If you have a problem with Dan's pass, get EVERYTHING out in the open now.

Everyone else - I'm not saying Dan is right or wrong, however I have seen members get banned for trying to profiteer or otherwise host unfair trades/passes. That is not what CP is about.

ANYONE WHO CANNOT SPEAK UP LIKE AN ADULT AND RESORTS TO NAME CALLING WILL BE SUSPENDED FOR TWO WEEKS. IF YOU FEEL YOU ARE NOT ADULT ENOUGH TO CONTINUE IN THIS DISCUSSION, DON'T. THIS GOES FOR ALL SENIOR MEMBERS AND NEW MEMBERS ALIKE.

 

[Mephiston]

How about a comparison between normal cp pass rules and these and than go from there.

 

[dk_ace]

What a shame. This was to be my first pass. Too bad it had to end this way. Is it really that hard for adults to resolve their personal issues personally in a mature, respectful manner? I'm a new, so my perspective is limited, but here's how I see pass rules:

1. Passes are optional. If you don't like the rules, you don't have to participate. While I would've liked the rules of this pass tweaked a little, none of them were IMO burdensome or too difficult to participate with. I chose to participate with the rules the way they were and put my feelings about certain ones aside as I'm new and the rules weren't overtly bad. Although they might not have been exactly to my liking, the pass wasn't mine and neither were the rules. For those that didn't like them, it was as simple as not participating.

2. The only time I see it worthwhile to publicly debate the rules is when they appear to be in such a manner as to be benefit the pass starter unjustly. In this case, the rules were value for value in the same category. I don't see how anyone stands to gain in that situation. For those that have CC's, if you think the ones in the pass are too green in comparison to yours, don't take them in exchange for your aged ones. You could put CC's of similar age, or you could just focus on the NC's.

Although some didn't like these pass rules, Dan wasn't gaining from them, and no one had a gun to their head forcing them to participate. I don't see why there was a need to publicly contend the rules by people who had no intention of participating. If I'm missing where there was a chance for profiteering, please show it to me. Otherwise, why couldn't those that didn't like them just not participate?

D

 

[Dave]

I have no problems with the rules. Cory even laid it out with detailed logical explanations. Any further discussion about the rules beyond this point is redundant and serves no beneficial purpose. I feel that whenever someone offers constructive criticism, it should be accompanied with an alternative solution, otherwise progress is delayed.

The rules are the rules, to allow any form of deviation, especially on rule #5 is how people get screwed. I myself don't particularly like rule #5, but I will adhere to it. Additionally, I would amend to it "d) rarity for rarity".

Rule #3 is pretty standard. It is put in a pass to help minimize damage to the cigars. The baggies are clear, so you can look through them and see the cigar. If you open up the top, you could still smell the cigars.

Rule #4 is intended to keep the pass running smoothly and expeditiously. There is a cigar list posted in this thread, that should be updated before the pass gets to you. You can then look at that list and determine which cigars you might be interested in. If you figure out what you might be interested in ahead of time, you can do research and make sure you have appropriate cigars to replace the ones you are interested in. I'm sure if a cigar caught your eye after the pass arrived, or you decided not to trade for a certain cigar, you could modify your P's and T's. Just make sure you discuss it with the pass host.

Rule #5 is standard, and there IS something wrong with someone putting in an Opus for an ISOM. It directly breaks this rule.

Rule #6 is also meant to keep the pass running smoothly. The last thing anyone would want is to have the pass end up sitting on a doorstep for days if the recipient isn't home. If you post something in the thread like, "Hey Joe, you ready?", then everyone knows that you have made an attempt to let the next person in line know you are ready to send the pass. And if Joe says, "Yea, fire away", then you know he is ready to receive the pass and it won't end up sitting on his door step for days.

Rule #7 is intended to make sure there is some sort of tracking for the package. IF you were in the pass and wanted to send it via some other delivery mechanism that had some sort of tracking, I'm sure you could work it out with the pass host.

These rules are not obscure, out of the ordinary, nor are they worded in a way that someone with a reasonable grasp of the English language would have difficulty figuring it out.

As for airing out personal problems that have NOTHING to do with the pass, there is a time and place for that, however it is NOT here.

 

[CgarDan]

I will try to compare the rules questioned one by one as compared the latest succesfull closed cp passes

MY rule

5. Put & Takes's (P/T's) should be: A) value for value, B) ISOM for ISOM, C) NC for NC

Jonesy Pretty Penny Pass

Welcome to the Jonesy Pretty Penny Pass!


Equal for equal:
Equal for Equal, Rarity for Rarity, ISOM for ISOM, NC for NC, 1 for 1. Standard rules for trading have been re-applied.

I pass Jazz Pass

5. Put & Takes (P/T's) should be: a) value for value, b) rarity for rarity, c) NC for NC, d) Premium for Premium and e) ISOM for ISOM. For each P/T combination an acceptable exchange value difference of $0.25 is acceptable, the overall net P/T value exchange should be as close to equal as possible.

Marc Mike Virtual Box Pass

Welcome to Marc and Mike’s virtual box pass!!


Rules:

2. Standard box pass rules apply: Rarity for Rarity, Cuban for Cuban, Value for Value, ect…

The No Perdomo Pass

Welcome to the "No Perdomo Pass".

1 for 1, Value for Value, ISOM for ISOM, Rarity for Rarity.

 

[CgarDan]

As a matter offact here is another pass Please pay attention to the rule and one of the participants there who had noproblems with that pass but does speak out about the same rule right here

Alrighty, as I promised this is my invite pass that I have been teasing you guys with for a few months! This is a different pass in that you will have the choice of who's cigars you want to take. I'm the main host, I have put up 60 of my own cigars! Outlawd, Outlawsp, Opusxkc and Mr. Peat have each put up 10 of there own cigars. We will have individual bags for each of us! My cigars will be marked 1-60! Outlawds will be marked D1-D10 and so forth. You pick what you want for your takes from any of the bags. Standard pass rules apply! Equal puts for equal takes, value to value, NC for NC and Isom for Isom! If you take something from a bag you are subject to approval from the host who's bag it is! The stick list will be posted on Monday January 22nd! This is the list of players. If I have asked you to play and you don't see your name PM me! You have until midnight Central time Sunday January 21st to let me know if you are still interested!



THE PLAYERS (Pass Order!)
28.COVENTRYCAT86

 

[CoventryCat86]

Dan - Bill PMing you his thoughts on your rules does you some good (if you're willing to take the criticism to heart) but does nothing for the rest of the community. CigarPass has always been about talking in the open about issues. Sorry it's in this thread - but the rules were first posted here. I'm not sure where else you think it should be discussed...

Let's all put our personal feelings aside - Bill you make some very valid points about the rules... :thumbs:

Haven't posted in a long time but I do visit the site a read threads everyday, I was just drawn in by the word pussy sue me. Anyway, George technically, and it has been said by others already, the rules were first post in the puppy pass, or at least the majority of them were. I am aware that Bill has a dislike for Dan and it does seem kind of odd that Bill would mention his concerns in Dan's pass and not in the Puppy Pass. I am willing to believe that it may have just been Bill didn't see the Puppy Pass and like me just had to look in here because of the word Pussy attached to it. I do find it a bit suspect however. I agree there are valid points I just have some questions about motive.

You're right Nate, I never saw the rules in the Puppy Pass nor have I reviewed the rules of many of the passes within the last couple of years.

Now that Dan and others have mentioned it, it sure looks like some of the rules have just been copied from other passes. Now I know you're not being critical of me Nate but it's pretty obvious that others think that I'm only being critical of the rules because their Dan's which is not the case at all. These were the first time I saw rules like this and I still believe my comments have merit. Hell, even Dan agrees with some of my comments.

 

[Dave]

Dan - Bill PMing you his thoughts on your rules does you some good (if you're willing to take the criticism to heart) but does nothing for the rest of the community. CigarPass has always been about talking in the open about issues. Sorry it's in this thread - but the rules were first posted here. I'm not sure where else you think it should be discussed...

Let's all put our personal feelings aside - Bill you make some very valid points about the rules... :thumbs:

Haven't posted in a long time but I do visit the site a read threads everyday, I was just drawn in by the word pussy sue me. Anyway, George technically, and it has been said by others already, the rules were first post in the puppy pass, or at least the majority of them were. I am aware that Bill has a dislike for Dan and it does seem kind of odd that Bill would mention his concerns in Dan's pass and not in the Puppy Pass. I am willing to believe that it may have just been Bill didn't see the Puppy Pass and like me just had to look in here because of the word Pussy attached to it. I do find it a bit suspect however. I agree there are valid points I just have some questions about motive.

You're right Nate, I never saw the rules in the Puppy Pass nor have I review the rules of many of the passes within the last couple of years.

Now that Dan and others have mentioned it, it sure looks like some of the rules have just been copied from other passes. Now I know you're not being critical of me Nate but it's pretty obvious that others think that I'm only being critical of the rules because their Dan's which is not the case at all. These were the first time I saw rules like this and I still believe my comments have merit. Hell, even Dan agrees with some of my comments.

Well, if we are all in agreement, let's get the show back on the road.

 

[dk_ace]

You're right Nate, I never saw the rules in the Puppy Pass nor have I review the rules of many of the passes within the last couple of years.

Now that Dan and others have mentioned it, it sure looks like some of the rules have just been copied from other passes. Now I know you're not being critical of me Nate but it's pretty obvious that others think that I'm only being critical of the rules because their Dan's which is not the case at all. These were the first time I saw rules like this and I still believe my comments have merit. Hell, even Dan agrees with some of my comments.

Just to be clear... I have no idea whether your intentions were to cause trouble because the pass was Dan's or simply to discuss pass rules that you didn't think were a good idea. Your motives are your own, and I was not trying to judge them in the least. I still don't quite understand why it is necessary to debate a pass starter's rules publicly if you aren't going to be in the pass, but I'm new and some more time here may shed light on that issue.

D

 

[CoventryCat86]

Additionally, I would amend to it "d) rarity for rarity".

A good point Dave but this one can get sticky sometimes too. Here's an example, a guy takes an Añejo 77 and puts a Padron 1964 worth about $10.00. Someone will come along and say "HEY, Añejo 77s are rarer than Padron 1964s, I call shenanigans!" :laugh:

Personally, I'm having a very easy time getting Añejo 77s so I would think that was an okay P/T. Other CPers in other parts of the country probably find it nearly impossible to buy Añejo 77s meanwhile, their local shop is stacked to the ceiling all the time with Padron 1964s.

Now getting back to the other point I raised (about the host calling all the shots) some might say the way to solve this is "Check with the host, it's his decision." Okay I guess BUT the guys who are in the pass AFTER this perceived unfairness about rarity should be consulted as well.

My point is the "rarity for rarity" is kind of tough to define, I'm not sure it really means much or adds value so I'd argue against adding that rule.

 

[Dave]

You're right Nate, I never saw the rules in the Puppy Pass nor have I review the rules of many of the passes within the last couple of years.

Now that Dan and others have mentioned it, it sure looks like some of the rules have just been copied from other passes. Now I know you're not being critical of me Nate but it's pretty obvious that others think that I'm only being critical of the rules because their Dan's which is not the case at all. These were the first time I saw rules like this and I still believe my comments have merit. Hell, even Dan agrees with some of my comments.

Just to be clear... I have no idea whether your intentions were to cause trouble because the pass was Dan's or simply to discuss pass rules that you didn't think were a good idea. Your motives are your own, and I was not trying to judge them in the least. I still don't quite understand why it is necessary to debate a pass starter's rules publicly if you aren't going to be in the pass, but I'm new and some more time here may shed light on that issue.

D

D,

Within the confines of honorable intentions, it is not uncommon for many FOGs to survey the passes and ensure fair play even if they aren't playing. Let's leave it at that.