VewyPhishy - fake cigars

[Mike33]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

 

[moki]

As per the picture Greg posted I believe it has the "proper" c

Just a quick comment on these cigars pictured above. It's instructive to understand how cigars are made; yes, they are hand rolled, but after the binder is applied, they are put into cigar molds that are all exactly the same size. After they've been pressed for some time in the mold, the foot is chopped off so that they are all the same length and ring.

Certainly there is some variance in size, but it isn't as much as some people might expect, due to the consistency that the mold offers. The wrapper is then applied by hand, which keeps the cigar bound as well as puts a nice finish on it.

I can't say for sure whether either of cigars above are real or fake, I'd need to look at them myself. However the ring and length differences are enough that I would at least suspect one of them to be fake.

Most of the fake cigars I've seen in my day have been off in terms of the size... because the counterfeiters don't typically have access to properly sized cigar molds.

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

My wonderful conversations with Mike:


QUOTE
Mike there is a problem with the Cohiba EL DC's you sent me. Can you send me your email address so I can send you photos? Do you have more of them?

Hey dude.

Sorry to hear that... but it's also been several weeks. Not sure what I can do for you about that now.

Mike

QUOTE
Its not in regards to any damage. The cigars are fakes. Take a look at the rest of them in the box. The Cohiba band is all wrong. The C of the Cuba is doubled. I will send you pictures. I need to look at those sublimes when I get home but the DC's are fake for sure.

Trust me when I tell you... they're not fake. All of my cigars come from an extremely well-known and reputable source. Can't speak to the bands that came with them, but you're not smoking the bands, are you? smile.gif

A lesson I learned long ago is that the cigar bands are accessories that speak nothing to the legitimacy of the cigar. There are many vendors who ship cigars naked. But... there are those who swear up and down that if the band is fake, so too is the cigar. To each their own.

But like I said, this will be the last I say about this because it comes across as defensive when I have nothing to defend. The people over the years that I have exchanged cigars with know that too.

Don't know if this sets your mind at ease but it should. smile.gif
Mike


Mike I'm sorry but I just don't feel like this explains the fact that the cigars are fakes. Why would someone bother to put fake bands on real cigars. Who was the source of these cigars? Do you still have the rest of the box? I would appreciate i if you would refund me the money for a return of the sticks you sent me.


You know that discussions of sources is a no-no. Once you get a little more experience under your belt, you will learn the ins, outs, and nuances of island cigars and the vendors that they come from. If you believe that the validity of a cigar is rooted in the band, then its not my place to educate you. That's what the board is for.

I don't feel I have an obligation to give you a refund. The sticks are legit and if you don't believe that for whatever reason, that's on you. My reputation more than speaks for itself. Feel free not to purchase anything from me in the future. I won't be offended and ultimately, it will be your loss.

I don't generally do public sales, but I was just trying to hook some new people up with some older sticks that they probably have a hard time getting. This is also the reason why I prefer to deal with FOGs who are in the know. It's all good though.

Take care.
Mike

This is no way to be treated! I checked the Sublimes after this conversation and found them to be of questionable ring gauge.

I know that is not enough to tell a fake but the fact that he sent me fakes with these tell me they are fake all the way. So Mike you owe me money for 3 Sublimes and 3 DC's. End of story.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

Guys, this is a really good point and something that has to be considered. An experienced buyer can be fooled by a less than scrupulous vendor when the quality of the goods are high. Crappy fakes are easy to spot, good fakes much harder. Frankly if you're buying from a well known vendor, how many of us look closely at all of our cigars on arrival? I'm guilty of dating the box and putting it in the bottom of the cabinet a time or two.

I'm going to assume this is a case of an honest guy that got fooled. It is, however, time to step up and fix things. If this is done in a timely manner, a full blown drawing and quartering isn't required.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

 

[CigarStone]

As Tom and others have pointed out, even the FOG's can be tricked but the bottom line is this.....If the "quoted" information presented here is legitimate (and I have no reason to think it isn't) Mike's attitude and repeated reference to band versus cigar legitimacy is unacceptable.

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

Guys, this is a really good point and something that has to be considered. An experienced buyer can be fooled by a less than scrupulous vendor when the quality of the goods are high. Crappy fakes are easy to spot, good fakes much harder. Frankly if you're buying from a well known vendor, how many of us look closely at all of our cigars on arrival? I'm guilty of dating the box and putting it in the bottom of the cabinet a time or two.

I'm going to assume this is a case of an honest guy that got fooled. It is, however, time to step up and fix things. If this is done in a timely manner, a full blown drawing and quartering isn't required.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

Sorry but Mike has had since June 9th to make this right with me and still nothing. A week is plenty of time and there is no reason this should have taken so long. We all know that mistakes happen but there is absolutely no excuse for this crap. The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

 

[pembroke3355]

My wonderful conversations with Mike:


QUOTE
Mike there is a problem with the Cohiba EL DC's you sent me. Can you send me your email address so I can send you photos? Do you have more of them?

Hey dude.

Sorry to hear that... but it's also been several weeks. Not sure what I can do for you about that now.

Mike

QUOTE
Its not in regards to any damage. The cigars are fakes. Take a look at the rest of them in the box. The Cohiba band is all wrong. The C of the Cuba is doubled. I will send you pictures. I need to look at those sublimes when I get home but the DC's are fake for sure.

Trust me when I tell you... they're not fake. All of my cigars come from an extremely well-known and reputable source. Can't speak to the bands that came with them, but you're not smoking the bands, are you? smile.gif

A lesson I learned long ago is that the cigar bands are accessories that speak nothing to the legitimacy of the cigar. There are many vendors who ship cigars naked. But... there are those who swear up and down that if the band is fake, so too is the cigar. To each their own.

But like I said, this will be the last I say about this because it comes across as defensive when I have nothing to defend. The people over the years that I have exchanged cigars with know that too.

Don't know if this sets your mind at ease but it should. smile.gif
Mike


Mike I'm sorry but I just don't feel like this explains the fact that the cigars are fakes. Why would someone bother to put fake bands on real cigars. Who was the source of these cigars? Do you still have the rest of the box? I would appreciate i if you would refund me the money for a return of the sticks you sent me.


You know that discussions of sources is a no-no. Once you get a little more experience under your belt, you will learn the ins, outs, and nuances of island cigars and the vendors that they come from. If you believe that the validity of a cigar is rooted in the band, then its not my place to educate you. That's what the board is for.

I don't feel I have an obligation to give you a refund. The sticks are legit and if you don't believe that for whatever reason, that's on you. My reputation more than speaks for itself. Feel free not to purchase anything from me in the future. I won't be offended and ultimately, it will be your loss.

I don't generally do public sales, but I was just trying to hook some new people up with some older sticks that they probably have a hard time getting. This is also the reason why I prefer to deal with FOGs who are in the know. It's all good though.

Take care.
Mike

This is no way to be treated! I checked the Sublimes after this conversation and found them to be of questionable ring gauge.

I know that is not enough to tell a fake but the fact that he sent me fakes with these tell me they are fake all the way. So Mike you owe me money for 3 Sublimes and 3 DC's. End of story.

I cannot believe this statement. Why the heck would someone bother to put fake bands on real cigars. ??? I hope this works out for both Greg and Rob but it does not look promising.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Sorry but Mike has had since June 9th to make this right with me and still nothing. A week is plenty of time and there is no reason this should have taken so long. We all know that mistakes happen but there is absolutely no excuse for this crap. The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

FOG's don't get preferential treatment here; trust me, I know first hand.

If he screwed up (sure appears that way) and makes it right, that's one thing. We don't disagree that he's had plenty of time and his PM's were completely out of line. If he doesn't fix this pronto, he gets thrown to the wolves.

Don't make this a FOG / noobie issue becasue that aspect of it is non sequitur.

B.B.S.

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

Guys, this is a really good point and something that has to be considered. An experienced buyer can be fooled by a less than scrupulous vendor when the quality of the goods are high. Crappy fakes are easy to spot, good fakes much harder. Frankly if you're buying from a well known vendor, how many of us look closely at all of our cigars on arrival? I'm guilty of dating the box and putting it in the bottom of the cabinet a time or two.

I'm going to assume this is a case of an honest guy that got fooled. It is, however, time to step up and fix things. If this is done in a timely manner, a full blown drawing and quartering isn't required.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

Sorry but Mike has had since June 9th to make this right with me and still nothing. A week is plenty of time and there is no reason this should have taken so long. We all know that mistakes happen but there is absolutely no excuse for this crap. The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

Good God, are we going to go down this path again .....

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

Guys, this is a really good point and something that has to be considered. An experienced buyer can be fooled by a less than scrupulous vendor when the quality of the goods are high. Crappy fakes are easy to spot, good fakes much harder. Frankly if you're buying from a well known vendor, how many of us look closely at all of our cigars on arrival? I'm guilty of dating the box and putting it in the bottom of the cabinet a time or two.

I'm going to assume this is a case of an honest guy that got fooled. It is, however, time to step up and fix things. If this is done in a timely manner, a full blown drawing and quartering isn't required.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

Sorry but Mike has had since June 9th to make this right with me and still nothing. A week is plenty of time and there is no reason this should have taken so long. We all know that mistakes happen but there is absolutely no excuse for this crap. The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

Good God, are we going to go down this path again .....

How long should Mike have to make this right? Put yourself in my shoes.

 

[jfields]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

Guys, this is a really good point and something that has to be considered. An experienced buyer can be fooled by a less than scrupulous vendor when the quality of the goods are high. Crappy fakes are easy to spot, good fakes much harder. Frankly if you're buying from a well known vendor, how many of us look closely at all of our cigars on arrival? I'm guilty of dating the box and putting it in the bottom of the cabinet a time or two.

I'm going to assume this is a case of an honest guy that got fooled. It is, however, time to step up and fix things. If this is done in a timely manner, a full blown drawing and quartering isn't required.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

Sorry but Mike has had since June 9th to make this right with me and still nothing. A week is plenty of time and there is no reason this should have taken so long. We all know that mistakes happen but there is absolutely no excuse for this crap. The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

Good God, are we going to go down this path again .....

David and Tom are right Robbie. I know you are upset, but that comment was not needed. Trust me when I say a lot of thought was put into both your and Greg's situation. This is being handled now and I think that statement needs to be retracted or apologized for.

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

How long should Mike have to make this right? Put yourself in my shoes.

I have been in your shoes before. It's out in the open and everyone is aware of what's going on, now be patient. Or you can stamp your feet, pull your hair and demand it to be corrected right now!. Whatever, it's up to you ..... I just think that these types of transactions speak volumnes about everyone involved, the seller and the buyer.

 

[Devil Doc]

I never considered phishy a FOG. Just because he's been here awhile doesn't make him a FOG.

Doc

 

[grateful1]

About 2 weeks...to answer MPS's question.

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

Just some food for thought for everybody. The Cohiba DC and Sublime are some of the most commonly counterfitted cigars out there. I've been sold some and I know of quite a few seasoned smokers who have been sold fakes from other seasoned smokers. The story is always the same, that they've come from a "trusted" vendor. I hate to say it, but there are a lot of "trusted" vendors out there that have been caught selling these specific fake cigars. The fact that these cigars are so commonly available in 2009 should raise flags by itself. Of course this doesn't mean that all of the DCs and Sublimes sold lately are fakes, but it is certainly something to keep in the back of your mind when buying...

Guys, this is a really good point and something that has to be considered. An experienced buyer can be fooled by a less than scrupulous vendor when the quality of the goods are high. Crappy fakes are easy to spot, good fakes much harder. Frankly if you're buying from a well known vendor, how many of us look closely at all of our cigars on arrival? I'm guilty of dating the box and putting it in the bottom of the cabinet a time or two.

I'm going to assume this is a case of an honest guy that got fooled. It is, however, time to step up and fix things. If this is done in a timely manner, a full blown drawing and quartering isn't required.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

Sorry but Mike has had since June 9th to make this right with me and still nothing. A week is plenty of time and there is no reason this should have taken so long. We all know that mistakes happen but there is absolutely no excuse for this crap. The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

Good God, are we going to go down this path again .....

David and Tom are right Robbie. I know you are upset, but that comment was not needed. Trust me when I say a lot of thought was put into both your and Greg's situation. This is being handled now and I think that statement needs to be retracted or apologized for.

You are right that I am upset. I am allowed my opinion however. There are certain unwritten rules here at CP in my opinion. I owe no apology and I love it here.

About 2 weeks...to answer MPS's question.

Thanks Gary I'm gonna go cool off. It's hot and humid here in Miami.

 

[grateful1]

The only reason this situation exists is because he is considered a FOG. If he was a newb it would have been swift punishment.

You are right that I am upset. I am allowed my opinion however. There are certain unwritten rules here at CP in my opinion. I owe no apology and I love it here.

About 2 weeks...to answer MPS's question.

Thanks Gary I'm gonna go cool off. It's hot and humid here in Miami.

Cool.

The issue exist because questionable cigars were sold. That's all.

Would a newbie be nailed...depends.

Search is your friend.

Also, don't forget...this is a kinder gentler CP...becasue that's what some folks want.

Enjoy a smoke and we'll go from there. :thumbs:

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

You don't owe an apology ..... just shut up and go have a cigar and a drink already :laugh:

I kid, I kid ......

Cool.

The issue exist because questionable cigars were sold. That's all.

Would a newbie be nailed...depends.

Search is your friend.

Also, don't forget...this is a kinder gentler CP...becasue that's what some folks want.

Enjoy a smoke and we'll go from there. :thumbs:

You are such a drama queen Gary ....... :sign:

 

[jayro75]

It is the proper C Phil. I actually mentioned that I wasn't 100% sure on the Sublimes as the bands are very similar to the real deal. However, the ring gauge is smaller and length longer. Any thoughts on the Sublimes are much appreciated. I can definitely put fire to one and see how it smokes, do a dissection if warranted.

The band on the Sublimes was almost exact to the regular Cohiba band and can pass for real. The Habana, Cuba was dead on, and the color was really close IMO. The difference and it could have been from the stamping of the band was in the gold line around Cohiba which was very thin and showed some white between the black dotted area and the raised gold line. At first quick glance the Sublime can pass as legit. I didn't measure it or check the ring gauge. The DC is off as previously mentioned. Based on that fact alone I'd say the Sublime is probably a fake as well.

 

[jfields]

It is the proper C Phil. I actually mentioned that I wasn't 100% sure on the Sublimes as the bands are very similar to the real deal. However, the ring gauge is smaller and length longer. Any thoughts on the Sublimes are much appreciated. I can definitely put fire to one and see how it smokes, do a dissection if warranted.

The band on the Sublimes was almost exact to the regular Cohiba band and can pass for real. The Habana, Cuba was dead on, and the color was really close IMO. The difference and it could have been from the stamping of the band was in the gold line around Cohiba which was very thin and showed some white between the black dotted area and the raised gold line. At first quick glance the Sublime can pass as legit. I didn't measure it or check the ring gauge. The DC is off as previously mentioned. Based on that fact alone I'd say the Sublime is probably a fake as well.

What the hell do you know!!! :laugh:

 

[jayro75]

It is the proper C Phil. I actually mentioned that I wasn't 100% sure on the Sublimes as the bands are very similar to the real deal. However, the ring gauge is smaller and length longer. Any thoughts on the Sublimes are much appreciated. I can definitely put fire to one and see how it smokes, do a dissection if warranted.

The band on the Sublimes was almost exact to the regular Cohiba band and can pass for real. The Habana, Cuba was dead on, and the color was really close IMO. The difference and it could have been from the stamping of the band was in the gold line around Cohiba which was very thin and showed some white between the black dotted area and the raised gold line. At first quick glance the Sublime can pass as legit. I didn't measure it or check the ring gauge. The DC is off as previously mentioned. Based on that fact alone I'd say the Sublime is probably a fake as well.

What the hell do you know!!! :laugh:

Well when I laid them out with some legit Cohibas for comparison this is what I saw.

So to answer your question John, not much but I know what I saw.