The Evil Dr. Moki’s Blind THANK YOU Test

[Ginseng]

Even in a "blind" taste test, I really do think taste is only a small part of what causes you to make various determinations.

I agree but only if one sets out to guess during the actual smoking itself. If one keeps copious and detailed notes while smoking with a blank mind, then the determination made after the fact is less tainted by the idea of a match to target. It's a zen of smoking thing.

Wilkey

 

[sinnyc]

Cigar #2 -- I'm slightly surprised it was a Bolivar... didn't have the earthy taste that I'd expect, tasted closer to a Partagas to me (even if the size made no sense). I'm not expecting to get the marca right that often anyway, tho

Cigar #3 -- Ah well... I figured a cigar of that size was very likely a LGC -- I doubt I would have gotten that it was a Punch, but that does make some sense. I fell into the trap of looking at the cigar, thinking "That must be a LGC!" and then it changing my perception from there on. Happens to me as much as everyone else!

Cigar #4 -- the age on this cigar was a guess based on how old I knew the Limitado I was, and not so much based on how it tasted -- my fault for falling into the trap of preconceived knowledge. I'm actually glad it was not a Limitado, because while it tasted like a Litto cigar to me, it did not taste like Limitados that I recalled... and it didn't taste as aged as it should for being that cigar.

What I find most interesting is so far is that the "traps" you fall into are exactly the same ones that got me and, I am certain, a number of the other 9 original victims. The 3 sections I highlighted above are exactly why I wish I could actually smoke the cigars in a blind taste test blindfolded. It would remove (or at least heavily downplay) visual cues such as color and size and would probably force me to focus more on what I think the cigar actually is, not what it appears to be.

I am really enjoying being the test administrator after having been a subject - it really is a lot of fun.

- Tim

 

[Ginseng]

I am really enjoying being the test administrator after having been a subject - it really is a lot of fun.

- Tim

It's a great read too. You're managing this test well and it shows.

Can't wait to read the remaining six.

Wilkey

 

[bpj87]

Even in a "blind" taste test, I really do think taste is only a small part of what causes you to make various determinations.

I agree but only if one sets out to guess during the actual smoking itself. If one keeps copious and detailed notes while smoking with a blank mind, then the determination made after the fact is less tainted by the idea of a match to target. It's a zen of smoking thing.

Wilkey

This seems to be a matter of double blind versus single blind tasting. Assuming a perfect double blind setting, the smokes involved in the tasting would be unknown, so there would be no guessing based on a preset list of contestants. Judging would be based solely on taste, without regard to size, wrapper shade, etc. However, when an uncommon vitola is involved, such as the ninfa or palma, one can't help but construct a set of possible identities of the smoke. This transforms the tasting into a pseudo-single blind format. Given an approximately 32-33RG, 6-7" cigar, the possible choices are limited to LGC, the Punch Ninfa, and the Hoyo du Gourmet, with maybe a few more which I'm not remembering. This of course forces the taster to choose within the physical size constraints of the smoke. Even if the smoke tasted like an Anejo or PSD4, the taster would force himself to choose the marca and vitola based on the closest match among possible contenders.

 

[moki]

What I find most interesting is so far is that the "traps" you fall into are exactly the same ones that got me and, I am certain, a number of the other 9 original victims. The 3 sections I highlighted above are exactly why I wish I could actually smoke the cigars in a blind taste test blindfolded. It would remove (or at least heavily downplay) visual cues such as color and size and would probably force me to focus more on what I think the cigar actually is, not what it appears to be.

I am really enjoying being the test administrator after having been a subject - it really is a lot of fun.

- Tim

Yeah well, I'm not mowing my damn lawn blindfolded, so you can just forget about that one, bub!

But yeah, I agree with you -- I'm just as susceptible to the perils of preconceptions as anyone else.

 

[Ginseng]

Even in a "blind" taste test, I really do think taste is only a small part of what causes you to make various determinations.

I agree but only if one sets out to guess during the actual smoking itself. If one keeps copious and detailed notes while smoking with a blank mind, then the determination made after the fact is less tainted by the idea of a match to target. It's a zen of smoking thing.

Wilkey

This seems to be a matter of double blind versus single blind tasting. Assuming a perfect double blind setting, the smokes involved in the tasting would be unknown, so there would be no guessing based on a preset list of contestants. Judging would be based solely on taste, without regard to size, wrapper shade, etc. However, when an uncommon vitola is involved, such as the ninfa or palma, one can't help but construct a set of possible identities of the smoke. This transforms the tasting into a pseudo-single blind format. Given an approximately 32-33RG, 6-7" cigar, the possible choices are limited to LGC, the Punch Ninfa, and the Hoyo du Gourmet, with maybe a few more which I'm not remembering. This of course forces the taster to choose within the physical size constraints of the smoke. Even if the smoke tasted like an Anejo or PSD4, the taster would force himself to choose the marca and vitola based on the closest match among possible contenders.

Excellent, really excellent points. Very well analyzed and stated with cogency. :thumbs:

Methodological issues aside, wiping the mind of preconceptions is not simply the process of not guessing. It involves a focused effort to concentrate solely on the sensory and experiential. It is not perfect and it does not provide perfect controls. I'm simply proposing that it is a way to seek a more "pure" smoking experience.

As for the size effect, I think that sticking the cigar to be smoked in one of those plastic mouthpieces, and smoking blindfolded would minimize the differentiability of non-smoking sensory input. Even so, an SLR DC is going to feel heavier than a Montecristo Joyita.

Thanks for sharing your ideas!

Wilkey

 

[sinnyc]

Dayam,

Looks like Mr. A is kicking some A. Well done you old goat boffer. :thumbs:

Wilkey

The fine art of yard gar reviewing! I'm actually having fun with it -- and I hope to get some spectacularly wrong soon, to provide some entertainment to you all.

I don't know that you will get anything "spectacularly wrong" but we do have a surprise or two in store for you.

This is turning out to be quite the interesting thread! I have followed many of moki's blind tasting challenges, and the most significant contrast that I notice is that moki's participants are usually well under 50% correct on NC vs. CC calls, whereas moki is 4/4 so far. Not only is he 100% on NC vs. CC, but he has also nailed the particular country of origin each time.

Can this be chalked up to experience? Is moki a 'supertaster?'

Nah, just dumb luck.... and we're only 4 smokes in too... I get the next 6 wrong, and I'm 40%... and I've gotten the marca wrong 3 times.

I agree - it's way too early to tell. And although I too think Moki is a superstar, I think he will turn in results similar to the rest of us. I am guessing he thinks so, too.

I bet that he gets the country correct on, oh, 8 of 10. I really don't know how he'll do with Marca and vitola. That was a real killer for me but who knows? Sometimes knowing a lot about something makes things as easy as hell. Sometimes it leads to over-analysis and you miss what your gut was telling you all along. Sometimes guys attempting to write sagely (as I am now) are just trying to mess with the heads of guys that know a lot about a given subject to make them second guess themselves into a hole. :whistling:

Honestly, although this test does have some interesting cigars, they were chosen as gifts by different people who did not communicate their selections to each other so things are pretty random. The cigars that Moki included in our blind taste test were deliberately assembled as a group for reasons that became clear (for some of them anyway) as the test went on. Now I admit to doing a little bit of that sort of thing here such as leading off with the cg:4 which was one of the highest rated cigars of 2007 but for the most part I just took what I was sent and arranged them in the way that I thought would be the most fun.

Anyway, there are a few "curveballs" in here including one that, should Andrew nail it, would utterly stun me. In fact, it would force me to prostrate myself in front him (or at least his avatar), murmur "I'm not worthy", and send him a tithe of 10% of any cigar purchases I make henceforth.


- Tim

edited for spelling

 

[moki]

I agree - it's way too early to tell. And although I too think Moki is a superstar, I think he will turn in results similar to the rest of us. I am guessing he thinks so, too.

I bet that he gets the country correct on, oh, 8 of 10. I really don't know how he'll do with Marca and vitola. That was a real killer for me but who knows? Sometimes knowing a lot about something makes things as easy as hell. Sometimes it leads to over-analysis and you miss what your gut was telling you all along. Sometimes guys attempting to write sagely (as I am now) are just trying to mess with the heads of guys that know a lot about a given subject to make them second guess themselves into a hole. :whistling:

I'm putting very little effort into figuring out what a cigar is. My procedure thus far has been:

-- Dig out the bag of cigars I stashed in my humidor
-- Find the next numbered cigar
-- Pull it out, walk outside, light it up, and climb on the riding mower (or whatever I happen to be doing)
-- Write up my thoughts later

I may look at the cigar now and again while smoking it, but zero effort has gone into measuring them, and I'm certainly not looking anything up. I think this makes it more fun for me (in addition to adhering to the guidelines), because it's not a research project, it's just "smoke this cigar, and see what you think of it, and what you think it might be"

So I'm not making any bets at all on how many I'll guess right in terms of origin or what have you. And whether I do better or worse than people in my blind taste test, I don't think it means much of anything. It is what it is!

 

[siriusstoogie]

Nice read! I agree that both the testee and tester are doing a GREAT job.

Question for Andrew, do you think smoking outside detract or add to the experience? Would this be a variable you want to control, either way for the next six cigars?

Best,

Joe

BTW, Congrats on the recent good news, Andrew. :thumbs: A Little Tim and a Little Andrew can keep this going in the future :sign: :sign: :sign:

 

[Infinity]

Excellent read...well done guys.

Congrats to you on the little one. So, that mower has other functions huh Andrew :love:

Brian

 

[insight]

Excellent read...well done guys.

Congrats to you on the little one. So, that mower has other functions huh Andrew :love:

Brian

:laugh:

 

[sinnyc]

Excellent read...well done guys.

Congrats to you on the little one. So, that mower has other functions huh Andrew :love:

Brian

I'm confused. I thought that it was the woman who was supposed to hop on the washing machine or the motorcycle or....the mower ???

Congratulations Andrew! And in reference to a thread of yours I read elsewhere, I sure hope you catch that guy. :sign: :sign: :sign:

 

[moki]

Cigar #5 review

Tasting Notes: I'm back from my business trip, with a bunch of yard work to do, so #5 will be the first yard gar of the day!

Nice petit little cigar... looks like is has maybe 3 years of age on it... nice aroma. Sparked it up while mowing the back lawn... tasty little cigar. Slight creamy carmel taste with just a hint of nutmeg-ish spice.

I would buy this cigar if it came in a lancero or Laguito #1 vitola... as it is, it is a little bit shorter than I'd like for a cigar. Really great flavors marred only by a slightly tight draw. I probably enjoyed this the most out of all of the cigars thus far, but marks taken off for the sightly tight draw.

EDIT: I wanted to add that the finish on this cigar was probably the best part... very enjoyable, left a nice milky sweet taste in my mouth. That, or I swallowed a bug. Yummy.

I think this is Cuban... my first thought was a Partagas Charlotte, but it seems too short. So I'll go with the Princess.

Age: 3-4 years
Origin: Cuban
Price: everyday
Marca: Partagas Princess
Rating: 8/10

 

[moki]

Cigar #6 review

Tasting Notes: Looks almost like a corona gorda, but not quite. The prelight aroma reminds me of a Davidoff of an Avo. Beautiful colorado-colored wrapper, looks very well made.

Sparking it up, I become more convinced that this is something from Henke. Starts off very floral, with the slight bitterness of dandelion tea. A few inches into the cigar, the floral overtones subside, and I start to enjoy a nice leathery tobacco taste, with a hint of cardamon spice.

EDIT: I smoked this cigar while working on the pool and mowing the trails and main front lawn. It was a nice companion, but nothing I'd go out of my way to purchase at the moment. I might keep some back to age for a while though.

A nice cigar... but needs some age to come out.

Age: 1 year
Origin: Dominican
Price: premium
Marca: Avo LE 07
Rating: 6/10

 

[sinnyc]

Cigar #: 5

ACTUAL CIGAR INFO: Quintero Panatela (Machine made, cello-wrapped) - 2000

Moki's thoughts:

Cigar #5 review

Tasting Notes: I'm back from my business trip, with a bunch of yard work to do, so #5 will be the first yard gar of the day!

Nice petit little cigar... looks like is has maybe 3 years of age on it... nice aroma. Sparked it up while mowing the back lawn... tasty little cigar. Slight creamy carmel taste with just a hint of nutmeg-ish spice.

I would buy this cigar if it came in a lancero or Laguito #1 vitola... as it is, it is a little bit shorter than I'd like for a cigar. Really great flavors marred only by a slightly tight draw. I probably enjoyed this the most out of all of the cigars thus far, but marks taken off for the sightly tight draw.

EDIT: I wanted to add that the finish on this cigar was probably the best part... very enjoyable, left a nice milky sweet taste in my mouth. That, or I swallowed a bug. Yummy.

I think this is Cuban... my first thought was a Partagas Charlotte, but it seems too short. So I'll go with the Princess.

Age: 3-4 years
Origin: Cuban
Price: everyday
Marca: Partagas Princess
Rating: 8/10

Origin: Andrew correctly identified the country of origin as Cuba

Marca: Andrew was off here but I can see where Partagas might have entered his mind.

Age: Andrew was off a bit here. He guessed 3-4 years and this cigar is close to 8 years old.

Price: Andrew was correct – this is indeed an everyday cigar.

Rating: He gave an 8 of 10 and again, I'm glad he liked it as I really enjoy them, too.

This was one of the "curve balls" I threw into the mix. Some time ago I had a bit of an epiphany. I realized that, due to taxes, there really weren't any cheap cigars I could buy in Minnesota that really put a smile on my face. So, I figured I'd try a variety of inexpensive Cuban machine-made smokes. I bought boxes of Por Larranaga, Fonseca, La Flor De Cano, Jose Piedra, and Quintero cigars. Prices ranged from $60 to $120 a box. I handed one of each out to my regular herf night guys and everyone was pleasantly surprised. While none of them was going to win any prizes, all of them were smokeable and interesting. And at $2 - $5 a stick, if you had to toss it, it was no big deal.

When I stumbled upon a box of Quintero Panatela's from 2000 I jumped on them. Apparently, Quinteros are favored by the Spanish market for their strength and unadulterated tobacco notes. Fresh, they are raw but pretty good. With age on them, they smooth out and mellow a bit and become quite tasty. Having tasted these cigars both new and aged (sometimes back to back) several times, I can tell you without hesitation that machine made cigars definitely age in a similar fashion to hand rolled ones. Anyway, good job Andrew. On to the next review!

 

[sinnyc]

Cigar #: 6

ACTUAL CIGAR INFO: Avo LE 07 - 2007

Moki's thoughts:

Cigar #6 review

Tasting Notes: Looks almost like a corona gorda, but not quite. The prelight aroma reminds me of a Davidoff of an Avo. Beautiful colorado-colored wrapper, looks very well made.

Sparking it up, I become more convinced that this is something from Henke. Starts off very floral, with the slight bitterness of dandelion tea. A few inches into the cigar, the floral overtones subside, and I start to enjoy a nice leathery tobacco taste, with a hint of cardamon spice.

EDIT: I smoked this cigar while working on the pool and mowing the trails and main front lawn. It was a nice companion, but nothing I'd go out of my way to purchase at the moment. I might keep some back to age for a while though.

A nice cigar... but needs some age to come out.

Age: 1 year
Origin: Dominican
Price: premium
Marca: Avo LE 07
Rating: 6/10

Origin: Andrew correctly identified the country of origin as the Dominican Republic.

Marca: Right on the money - Avo

Age: 1 year – correct.

Price: Premium – again he is correct

Rating: 6

Well, here is the first one Moki stripped the skin off of as he knocked it out of the park. His instincts were on from the start and he followed them right on through to the end. Outstanding job, Andrew, on a 100% correct assessment

 

[moki]

This was one of the "curve balls" I threw into the mix. Some time ago I had a bit of an epiphany. I realized that, due to taxes, there really weren't any cheap cigars I could buy in Minnesota that really put a smile on my face. So, I figured I'd try a variety of inexpensive Cuban machine-made smokes. I bought boxes of Por Larranaga, Fonseca, La Flor De Cano, Jose Piedra, and Quintero cigars. Prices ranged from $60 to $120 a box. I handed one of each out to my regular herf night guys and everyone was pleasantly surprised. While none of them was going to win any prizes, all of them were smokeable and interesting. And at $2 - $5 a stick, if you had to toss it, it was no big deal.

Well played, sir, well played. I almost said in the review that it could be even more aged, but honestly, I was influenced into believing it was a Partagas Princess, because I thought Phil put it in there.

No way I would have gotten that it was a Quintero... enjoyed it, I just wish it was larger.

 

[moki]

Well, here is the first one Moki stripped the skin off of as he knocked it out of the park. His instincts were on from the start and he followed them right on through to the end. Outstanding job, Andrew, on a 100% correct assessment

Out of the cigars in the test so far, I've had more of this particular cigar than any other individual cigar in the test. So familiarity is indeed quite possible...

 

[sinnyc]

Well played, sir, well played. I almost said in the review that it could be even more aged, but honestly, I was influenced into believing it was a Partagas Princess, because I thought Phil put it in there.

No way I would have gotten that it was a Quintero... enjoyed it, I just wish it was larger.

Hahahaha
There you go letting unrelated factors influence your taste again - just like the rest of us :laugh:

Seriously, I have more or less stopped buying US import "cigars-I-won't-mind-if-I-have-to-toss" because some of the machine made ISOM's are so good. The Por Larrananga's, Quinteros, and surprisingly, as they were the cheapest, the Jose Piedras. I figure, why pay $4 for a lame cigar when I can have something interesting for the same money.

My next sampling is going to be an array of the mini and club sizes - Monte, Partagas, Cohiba, etc. If I found a tasty, cheap, 10 or 15 minute cigar I would be in heaven.

 

[moki]

Hahahaha
There you go letting unrelated factors influence your taste again - just like the rest of us :laugh:

Seriously, I have more or less stopped buying US import "cigars-I-won't-mind-if-I-have-to-toss" because some of the machine made ISOM's are so good. The Por Larrananga's, Quinteros, and surprisingly, as they were the cheapest, the Jose Piedras. I figure, why pay $4 for a lame cigar when I can have something interesting for the same money.

My next sampling is going to be an array of the mini and club sizes - Monte, Partagas, Cohiba, etc. If I found a tasty, cheap, 10 or 15 minute cigar I would be in heaven.

You should try the Fuente Exquisitos. They are made from leftover leaf from very premium AF cigars (Opus, etc.).