Send Lawyers, Guns and Money Pass - below 50 RG only- Completed.

[CMontoya79]

Kendall and I are coordinating a hand off for the pass, this should happen next week on Wed. 4/9.

C

 

[personal User]

It's interesting for me to see this many personal hand-offs in a pass. To me, it means the brotherhood is in good shape.
 
Now, I'm going to see if Ironpeddler will do a hand-off to me. Somewhere around Richmond, Va. ought to be half way

 

[personal User]

but then again, a $1.00 over-Put done by 7 people turns an $8 cigar into a $15.00 cigar. :laugh:

I guess that may be possible, but is not very probable. One particular put/take series would have to be over-done by eight of the 11 remaining passers for that to happen.
 
There are forty sticks in the pass, with eleven passers left. If the remaining passers put/take four sticks and over-put every stick by $1.00 then you could also say that the average price of sticks in the pass has increased by $1.10 to the last passer.

If all you can do it one or two P&Ts....perfectly fine as long as the Pass Host doesn't mind.

This pass host minds, unless a passer simply can't find three or four sticks in the pass that he wants.

I have seen guys do 1 or 2 and move on. 

I hope that won't happen in this pass. I really would hate for someone to pay the postage, unpack and repack and take it to the PO for one or two sticks. The postage alone will run the cost up more than if the passer had just purchased singles and paid the freight from one vendor.
 
Do we not care more about getting some smokes out for others to try and trying some new smokes than splitting hairs over 50 cents or a dollar?
 
It may be more difficult to do puts/takes when limited by ring gauge, Let's don't make it even harder by trying to stay within a dollar.
 
 

Guys, $.42 isn't worth discussing at all. 

 

 My personal opinion has always been that I'm not sweating a put/take that's off by .50-$1...a few pennies here or there never bothers me.    If someone is over putting by $3 on every stick, then yes it's an issue.... But, ultimately it's the pass hosts call.

Rules clarification. For this pass the pass host pre-approves puts/takes that can reasonably be considered within a $1.00
 
This can work both ways, someone may not have a match except with an under-put.
 
Also, if any passer is truly unable to come up with the puts to do at least three or four takes that they want if they will PM me, I will mail the needed puts to the next passer for them.
 
Wouldn't every passer here do the same? As far as I am concerned that is all that we are doing when we are liberal with our fellow CP members when we interpret puts/takes prices in this manner.

 

[Bsneed51]

 

If all you can do it one or two P&Ts....perfectly fine as long as the Pass Host doesn't mind.

This pass host minds, unless a passer simply can't find three or four sticks in the pass that he wants.
 

I'm going to disagree with you on this one.   The number of puts/takes is entirely up to the pass participant.   If they only want to do 1, that's fine.  If they want to do 8, that should also be fine as long as they leave the pass in better shape than when they got it.  Somtimes, when it's your turn, there might only be 1 or 2 sticks in pass you haven't had, or that you want to try.  No reason to do puts/takes just for the numbers.   I've been on both ends of that situation.

 

[grateful1]

Meh...host may limit the total number of moves....minimum is up to the PaLayA!

 

[personal User]

we agree on this point.
 
I didn't say that well. I did say "unless a passer simply can't find three or four sticks in the pass that he wants"
 
If he wants none, then he takes none.
 
Did not mean to imply a minimum, sorry I was not more clear on that.
 
Do hope that players will be able to work out a combination of puts and takes where they will be able to do three or more puts/takes.
 
My intent was to loosen interpretation of values and not to increase restrictions in any way.
 
ETA
 
No reason to do puts/takes just for the numbers. 
 
I agree wholeheartedly, and simply wished to loosen interpretation of pricing to make it easier for players to make suitable trades for sticks they are interested in.
 
My wife does tell me all the time that I often do not make myself clear.
 
She also has told me many times that I don't listen to her. At least I think that's what she said

 

 

 

 

[ironpeddler]

 

but then again, a $1.00 over-Put done by 7 people turns an $8 cigar into a $15.00 cigar. :laugh:

I guess that may be possible, but is not very probable. That's why there is a smiley face after that statement, while not probable, it's possible...and does happen on occasion with popular cigars. Read a few of the past Passes and you will see how this occurs. One particular put/take series would have to be over-done by eight of the 11 remaining passers for that to happen.
 
There are forty sticks in the pass, with eleven passers left. If the remaining passers put/take four sticks and over-put every stick by $1.00 then you could also say that the average price of sticks in the pass has increased by $1.10 to the last passer.

If all you can do it one or two P&Ts....perfectly fine as long as the Pass Host doesn't mind.

 
This pass host minds, unless a passer simply can't find three or four sticks in the pass that he wants. While you obviously have some say in the matter, there is a certain protocol here at Cigar Pass that has been forged by those before us. It's unfair to hold a member to a certain number of P&Ts... especially later in the Pass as it's value increases or the selection changes and there isn't too many cigars to his liking. The anxiety of trying to do the right thing in front of the members of the community can be hard sometimes, let's not make it even harder. 
 
 

I have seen guys do 1 or 2 and move on. 

I hope that won't happen in this pass. I really would hate for someone to pay the postage, unpack and repack and take it to the PO for one or two sticks. The postage alone will run the cost up more than if the passer had just purchased singles and paid the freight from one vendor.
 
Do we not care more about getting some smokes out for others to try and trying some new smokes than splitting hairs over 50 cents or a dollar?
 
It may be more difficult to do puts/takes when limited by ring gauge, Let's don't make it even harder by trying to stay within a dollar.
 
It is what it is, what winds up at a Pass member's house 2 months later is a far cry from what was posted at the beginning of the Pass. Again, things change, it's our job as members of the Pass to keep P&Ts realistic and true to the beginning cigar list, so those down stream can feel comfortable and have fun with the process.
 

Guys, $.42 isn't worth discussing at all. 

 

 My personal opinion has always been that I'm not sweating a put/take that's off by .50-$1...a few pennies here or there never bothers me.    If someone is over putting by $3 on every stick, then yes it's an issue.... But, ultimately it's the pass hosts call.

Rules clarification. For this pass the pass host pre-approves puts/takes that can reasonably be considered within a $1.00
 
This can work both ways, someone may not have a match except with an under-put.
 
Also, if any passer is truly unable to come up with the puts to do at least three or four takes that they want if they will PM me, I will mail the needed puts to the next passer for them. Again, there is a certain protocol that exists here, trying to control every aspect of the process is a tough one. The Pass members NEED to participate by what rules were put forth at the beginning of the Pass...if you don't have anything that works, go out a buy a few sticks to make the P&Ts work. The onus needs to fall on the participants, not the Pass host. while very gracious, that's not practical. 
 
Wouldn't every passer here do the same? As far as I am concerned that is all that we are doing when we are liberal with our fellow CP members when we interpret puts/takes prices in this manner.
 
It's easy to bend the rules, it's tough to enforce them based on the tradition that have been written here at CP. That's why the original Pass rules used to state that you had to be a participant in at least one or two Passes before starting your own. That's how you learn how it was done based on the past.

 
Listen guys, I mean no disrespect here, but as Jonesy and I have discussed this may times over the last few weeks since these two Passes started, while the Pass host supplies the cigars, there is a stewardship that exists in being the host...one that embodies the tradition, structure, code of conduct, and obligations of that position. 
 
We just can't let this thing get too big and out of hand!

 

[personal User]

>>We just can't let this thing get too big and out of hand!
 
With a  pass that has seventeen people in it (11 remaining players) and 40 sticks, you're talking about a $1 leeway on puts/takes getting too big and out of hand?
 
It seems to me that you have little confidence in the ability, knowledge and integrity of the players in the pass. I'm new here but have seen an abundance of knowledge, ability and integrity of players and frankly do not see the need to take 5 costs, throw out the high and the low and average the remaining three. I figure the players have enough integrity that any error will be small and insignificant. I do not see a crying need to micromanage puts/takes because the players are not going to play well.
 
It appears that the focus here is costs of a stick, oh my gosh don't get the cost of a put/take wrong. Why can't people simply look up a price they're comfortable with and go for it? To me you are saying they cannot be trusted to handle the situation with integrity and accuracy. I seriously doubt that. It costs 11.35 cents to mail the pass, if some guy is off by a dollar on a put/take I just don't see the world coming to an end. And if there is a problem, stuff happens. If you attempt to legislate against every possible potential problem, usually you cause other problems.
 
Several people have posted to the thread that they do not have a problem if puts/takes are not so tight. I posted early on that prices would be loosely interpreted and am following up and clarifying what I said earlier.
 
>>there is a stewardship that exists in being the host...one that embodies the tradition, structure, code of conduct, and obligations of that position.
 
Am I supposed to simply accept that how Ironpeddler  would like for you to run your pass is the best and only way? Looks to me like there are other long term regulars here that have other interpretations of that.
 
Whatever happened to Your Pass, Your Rules?
 
Perhaps it is time to do some things a little differently.
 
One of the reasons I thought it good to start a pass is because for a place that is cigarpass.com there just aren't many passes. Looks like roughly three or so a year ( I don't intend to average them statistically.)
 
Maybe if people were not having to be so rigid on puts/takes there would be more passes.
 
This is supposed to be about fun and trying some new smokes, getting them out there and smoking. Not about statistically averaging prices. If somebody wants to know the price of a stick they can google it. Sorry, I just don't see the need for a complex formula and every player in the pass agreeing to amounts less than +/- a dollar.
 
Wouldn't it be better if instead of such intense focus on the cost of a stick, that the players posted back to the thread later on what they thought of the new sticks they tried from the pass? And we could learn more about actual cigars instead of spending so much time and energy focusing on the cost of a stick?
 
This is supposed to be about smokes, brotherhood and trying new cigars, and also about getting some sticks up for the troops.
 
I would think the pass was going great if you were asking about "hey, how many sticks do we have for the troops" or if someone had posted "hey, I tried a new stick from the pass, and here's what I thought.
 
Instead, here we are generating verbage about $1 a stick?
 
So how many sticks do we actually have for the troops? I was hoping to be reimbursing someone for mailing the contents to the chenman by now.

 

[CMontoya79]

There is room for at least a few more maybe 4-6 depending in size, and I'm basing this on packing them in the box nice n tight like a box of cigars would be.

 

[personal User]

Thanks, I was hoping we were well on the way to getting a shipment off to thechenman.

 

[Joebunaga]

Gentleman, I have made a mistake.
 
I saw Ken make the updates to the cigar list and he noted that I took an 898 instead of the Partagas Super-Partagas. I started to correct him via pm and realized that I wasn't positive that I HADN'T taken the 898. The SPs are a smaller ring guage and slightly shorter, but I've never actually seen one. I went and checked my humidor, then went and pulled out some 898s that I already have and I clearly took the wrong cigar. I have confirmed with Ceasar.
 
My apologies to all.
 
I will talk to Caesar and Kendall and find out who it would be better for me to ship the 898 to so that it can rejoin the pass. That forfeits the Super Partagas as far as I'm concerned and it should continue along with the pass. Additionally I'll look for an additional cigar to add that will ship with the 898.
 
Again, my apologies. I will make this right.

 

[grateful1]

Just sweep them. Hosts call.

 

[Jonesy]

 

>>We just can't let this thing get too big and out of hand!
 
With a  pass that has seventeen people in it (11 remaining players) and 40 sticks, you're talking about a $1 leeway on puts/takes getting too big and out of hand?
 
It seems to me that you have little confidence in the ability, knowledge and integrity of the players in the pass. I'm new here but have seen an abundance of knowledge, ability and integrity of players and frankly do not see the need to take 5 costs, throw out the high and the low and average the remaining three. I figure the players have enough integrity that any error will be small and insignificant. I do not see a crying need to micromanage puts/takes because the players are not going to play well.
 
It appears that the focus here is costs of a stick, oh my gosh don't get the cost of a put/take wrong. Why can't people simply look up a price they're comfortable with and go for it? To me you are saying they cannot be trusted to handle the situation with integrity and accuracy. I seriously doubt that. It costs 11.35 cents to mail the pass, if some guy is off by a dollar on a put/take I just don't see the world coming to an end. And if there is a problem, stuff happens. If you attempt to legislate against every possible potential problem, usually you cause other problems.
 
Several people have posted to the thread that they do not have a problem if puts/takes are not so tight. I posted early on that prices would be loosely interpreted and am following up and clarifying what I said earlier.
 
>>there is a stewardship that exists in being the host...one that embodies the tradition, structure, code of conduct, and obligations of that position.
 
Am I supposed to simply accept that how Ironpeddler  would like for you to run your pass is the best and only way? Looks to me like there are other long term regulars here that have other interpretations of that.
 
Whatever happened to Your Pass, Your Rules?
 
Perhaps it is time to do some things a little differently.
 
One of the reasons I thought it good to start a pass is because for a place that is cigarpass.com there just aren't many passes. Looks like roughly three or so a year ( I don't intend to average them statistically.)
 
Maybe if people were not having to be so rigid on puts/takes there would be more passes.
 
This is supposed to be about fun and trying some new smokes, getting them out there and smoking. Not about statistically averaging prices. If somebody wants to know the price of a stick they can google it. Sorry, I just don't see the need for a complex formula and every player in the pass agreeing to amounts less than +/- a dollar.
 
Wouldn't it be better if instead of such intense focus on the cost of a stick, that the players posted back to the thread later on what they thought of the new sticks they tried from the pass? And we could learn more about actual cigars instead of spending so much time and energy focusing on the cost of a stick?
 
This is supposed to be about smokes, brotherhood and trying new cigars, and also about getting some sticks up for the troops.
 
I would think the pass was going great if you were asking about "hey, how many sticks do we have for the troops" or if someone had posted "hey, I tried a new stick from the pass, and here's what I thought.
 
Instead, here we are generating verbage about $1 a stick?
 
So how many sticks do we actually have for the troops? I was hoping to be reimbursing someone for mailing the contents to the chenman by now.

 

This is one of the reasons I wish Rod hadn't taken out the rule about participating in at least two passes before hosting one. Someone may have smoked cigars all their life, but it doesn't mean they can jump right in and run a pass smoothly. Yes, you can have your own rules, but there are certain things that don't change....for the simple reason you can't set precedence for passes down the road. I'm not criticizing you personal user, but you've been here 7 months, there hasn't been a pass for you to even watch, much less participate in to learn how to run one. You're arguing with a man that's been here 6 years and multiple passes. He might know a thing or two if you listen to him....

 

[personal User]

 noted that I took an 898 instead of the Partagas Super-Partagas. 

Would you believe I'm clairvoyant?
 
I certainly believe no penalty should be assessed for an honest error, and I also think that if you want to just swap the sticks that might be the simplest thing. No penalty or forfeit will be assessed. Send the 898 on with enough for postage for the Partagas Super Partagas to be returned and I think we can all feel comfortable that the postage is sufficient penalty.
 
Hey, I made an error too. Don't worry about it, we all make mistakes this one is easily corrected with postage.

 

[Joebunaga]

After speaking with Ceasar and Kendall, I'm sending the 898 to Kendall so there's no missing the pass. I appreciate them working with me on this.
DC# 9405503699300269744959
 
I also sent in an additional put, I know its not required but I still felt like doing it:
P: Drew Estates Dirty Rat '13
 
Please add that to the list.
 
Thanks for having me aboard!

 

[personal User]

there is a stewardship that exists in being the host...one that embodies the tradition, structure, code of conduct, and obligations of that position.

Since Jonesy has started a pass, and ironpeddler is in it where all puts/takes are pre-approved it appears that indeed the Send Lawyers, Guns and money pass is congruent with the above and that some things do change.
 
http://www.cigarpass.com/forumsipb/topic/75669-the-jonesy-pretty-penny-pass-2/
 
I will note that his guidance to his passers is quite a bit better than my original so I will quote it below.
 
 

Before Pass Arrives
Be sure you are available. Follow the Pass, and post / PM that you are ready to receive the package when it's your turn.
If you will be out of town, please let me know and I'll try to work around it.

Pass Arrives
When the pass arrives, inventory it, and inspect the condition of the cigars and package, ensuring everything is correct and in good shape.
Publicly post your puts & takes, you don't have to wait on approval, your P/T's are pre-approved because every one of you guys are seasoned passers. The only thing I ask is you don't make large over puts that price out the guys at the end. 
Update the hard copy of the cigar contents (Put & Take List) so inventory for the next guy will be easy.
Try to do a two day turnaround if at all possible because of the heat coming up.


Shipping It:
Check and make sure the next guy in the pass is available via pm and obtain his address.
Make sure you have put the baggies, papers, pens, humidifiers, etc - back in the pass box
Pack it up and make sure there is no movement in the container and no movement within the larger box itself.
If the box is damaged and if you can replace it, please do so.  
Post the Delivery confirmation # when you ship

 

I think the discussion in this thread has been healthy, I have learned from it.
 
Out of this has come about a change for the better, and our pass is going very smoothly.
 
I sincerely appreciate the confidence that the players who joined the pass had in me to run a pass they wanted to be a part of.
 
I'm glad I started the pass and am hopeful that when the pass returns every player will be glad they were a part.
 
A quick turn-around is always good. Brotherhood is more important than speed, so if a personal handoff and herf is feasible that is a great way to go.
 
Who knows, ironpeddler and I might even do a handoff somewhere around Richmond, Va

 

[Bsneed51]

 

>>We just can't let this thing get too big and out of hand!
 
With a  pass that has seventeen people in it (11 remaining players) and 40 sticks, you're talking about a $1 leeway on puts/takes getting too big and out of hand?
 
It seems to me that you have little confidence in the ability, knowledge and integrity of the players in the pass. I'm new here but have seen an abundance of knowledge, ability and integrity of players and frankly do not see the need to take 5 costs, throw out the high and the low and average the remaining three. I figure the players have enough integrity that any error will be small and insignificant. I do not see a crying need to micromanage puts/takes because the players are not going to play well.
 
It appears that the focus here is costs of a stick, oh my gosh don't get the cost of a put/take wrong. Why can't people simply look up a price they're comfortable with and go for it? To me you are saying they cannot be trusted to handle the situation with integrity and accuracy. I seriously doubt that. It costs 11.35 cents to mail the pass, if some guy is off by a dollar on a put/take I just don't see the world coming to an end. And if there is a problem, stuff happens. If you attempt to legislate against every possible potential problem, usually you cause other problems.
 
Several people have posted to the thread that they do not have a problem if puts/takes are not so tight. I posted early on that prices would be loosely interpreted and am following up and clarifying what I said earlier.
 
>>there is a stewardship that exists in being the host...one that embodies the tradition, structure, code of conduct, and obligations of that position.
 
Am I supposed to simply accept that how Ironpeddler  would like for you to run your pass is the best and only way? Looks to me like there are other long term regulars here that have other interpretations of that.
 
Whatever happened to Your Pass, Your Rules?
 
Perhaps it is time to do some things a little differently.
 
One of the reasons I thought it good to start a pass is because for a place that is cigarpass.com there just aren't many passes. Looks like roughly three or so a year ( I don't intend to average them statistically.)
 
Maybe if people were not having to be so rigid on puts/takes there would be more passes.
 
This is supposed to be about fun and trying some new smokes, getting them out there and smoking. Not about statistically averaging prices. If somebody wants to know the price of a stick they can google it. Sorry, I just don't see the need for a complex formula and every player in the pass agreeing to amounts less than +/- a dollar.
 
Wouldn't it be better if instead of such intense focus on the cost of a stick, that the players posted back to the thread later on what they thought of the new sticks they tried from the pass? And we could learn more about actual cigars instead of spending so much time and energy focusing on the cost of a stick?
 
This is supposed to be about smokes, brotherhood and trying new cigars, and also about getting some sticks up for the troops.
 
I would think the pass was going great if you were asking about "hey, how many sticks do we have for the troops" or if someone had posted "hey, I tried a new stick from the pass, and here's what I thought.
 
Instead, here we are generating verbage about $1 a stick?
 
So how many sticks do we actually have for the troops? I was hoping to be reimbursing someone for mailing the contents to the chenman by now.
 

This is one of the reasons I wish Rod hadn't taken out the rule about participating in at least two passes before hosting one. Someone may have smoked cigars all their life, but it doesn't mean they can jump right in and run a pass smoothly. Yes, you can have your own rules, but there are certain things that don't change....for the simple reason you can't set precedence for passes down the road. I'm not criticizing you personal user, but you've been here 7 months, there hasn't been a pass for you to even watch, much less participate in to learn how to run one. You're arguing with a man that's been here 6 years and multiple passes. He might know a thing or two if you listen to him....

Ok, I'll put my prick hat on too. I agreed to help Ken run this pass and I might know a thing or two also. He's run every question past me, and I've given him direction and insight. Do I count as knowing a few things about passes too? Jonesy, if this was mine or your pass, or Phil or Gary, this discussion wouldn't be happening, our would have ended as soon as the pass host made his decision. As far as precedence, horsecrap. I can find you a dozen examples in almost every pass that overputs have happened and been allowed. I can probably find examples of you, me, and Gary doing it and allowing it. If Gary had this much of an issue with it, maybe passes aren't his thing.

I'm done swinging my e-dick around. I'm going to watch my kid play ball, then enjoy my daughter's bday party so I'll be away all day. So get mad and call me bad names all you want, I won't care.

 

[ironpeddler]

What was meant to be helpful advice, has turned into a clusterfuck.
 
I have no "issues" with anything here Sneeds...and passes are my thing....ergo, the advice. All I tried to do was help as I was taught...and it seems that it was misconstrued as being a prick. Sorry Ken, didn't mean to hurt your feelings or question your expertise. 
 
Time for me to STFU now. This is obviously in great hands.  
 
Carry on brothers.... :thumbs:

 

[Jonesy]

OK, since you decided to bring up my pass (BTW, this is my 7th pass I have run), I will oblige and respond, but do realize what you've now done, because I don't think you have a clue.
 
First of all, one of the reasons I started my pass was because of the two going on now. Although, I couldn't decide between a newbie pass where I could show the new guys, the proper way to pass, or a vet pass where everyone involved has over 6 years with CP. With everyone nowadays wanted to make their own rules on how to pass. Obviously no one cares how passes are run anymore I thought I would be a pioneer and just not have any. So, with that being said, there won't be any discussions in my pass like there have been in this one because there will be nothing to argue over!
 
Brent, when I was talking precedence, it wasn't about over putting,because that will happen in every pass out there no matter what rule you put in place to keep it from happening. BTW since we have our prick hat's on, I wouldn't be so quick to admit that everything has been run through you, because this pass has been run like shit from the get go.
 
I still love you though man, so I hope your boy does well and your daughter has a great party!

 

[Bsneed51]

Good to know that I've helped run a shitty pass. Guess that reflects on my CP "abilities." I'm out.

Good luck Ken. To the rest of you. See ya around.