"Operation: Just Cause" Pass

[SFG75]

Get the rope, this jackass is done here..........

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Anyone know how to contact the fella that runs the scumbags and bad trader's list?? Might be helpful to let other BOTLs on other boards know.

 

[Lee]

I know Gary personally, I'll let him know but need more info on this guy. I'm hoping Rod can help out on this....

Also, whoever gets the pass next, please pm me. I have something to add to it.

Thanks

Lee

 

[Lee]

Edited to say-

Well TEX the more I thought about your post. The more of the Gentleman in me decided to take off his jacket.

Not that it matters much to you the Host. As you seem to have your own agenda. But for myself and the rest of the board that I have so diligently tried to help and honor. I feel compelled to stand up and piss back as it may.

As I PM'd you already. I felt that participating in a pass that allows someone to put in cigars worth $8.50 (LA AURORA 100 ANOS Robusto) for a cigar that goes for twice that ( Autero Fuente Anejo's) is just not doing the board justice. Maybe tutoring newbies or keeping the cherry picking vultures away from CP passes is no concern of yours ( and Other1, I definately am not placing you in this classification or brother Sober either, I don't believe it was intentional) but it is mine. If you would have stated that this pass was not to have the standard rules, then it wouldn't have made such an impact.

Now when some unsuspecting person sets up his first pass and let's people openly sign up, and soeone see's an Anejo, BTL, Opus A ect. ect.. and decides that they'll do the same... and maybe not on purpose, but because they watched and read this pass. Then both sides can thank you. The guy that get's his butt reamed and/ or the host and other passers that let it slide.

And for what it's worth TEX ... I definately don't enjoy making these type of posts.

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Hopefully, all can see the point CS was trying to make. Learn from it!! I totally agree with him!

I don't keep track of passes on here because of this type of thing.

Hopefully, lesson learned!

 

[Allofus123]

This isn't meant to sound cold but it will regardless. Just advice that some of us that have been around for some time have come to learn.

Inviting newbies into a "premium" pass is foolish. While we hate to paint all newbies with the same brush you have to accept the fact that eventially you will get people who are ripoffs or generally have the attitude of this dude. Premium passes and unproven newbies just don't mix.... period!

LostTexan - if you'd like to send this pass to me at the end I'll see to it that a BTL and a few other rockets make it home.

 

[Allofus123]

I'd wait before committing this guy to the scum bag list. These responses have only been over the past day or so....... give this some time. Hopefully it will work out.

 

[Wascal]

"LostTexan - if you'd like to send this pass to me at the end I'll see to it that a BTL and a few other rockets make it home."

A grand gesture of kindness on your part Kenny. My question is if LostTexan is so upset at a couple of FOG's trying to help out in his pass why bother?


"Well, ladies and gentlemen, Cohibasurfer, has decided to bow out of the pass, and I am actually a little relieved that he has, becuase all I have heard from his is complaints from the Puts/Takes, and I am really tired of it.

Please omit him from the pass, and I will be contacting the person before/after him to make sure they are aware of it.

Cohibasurfer, please get a life and try to enjoy it. You obviously have way too much stress in your current life, and try to put that on everyone else on this board.

ALostTexan"

 

[lucasbuck]

Inviting newbies into a "premium" pass is foolish.

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I agree with Kenny on this one. ALT is lucky he didn't lose the whole pass IMO. I believe I averted a certain hijack of a pass I was in a year or so ago. The next guy in line after me only listed a first name with his addy. I PM'd and Emailed asking for his last name with no response. I then did a bit of checking and saw that he had just recently joined the board and had only posted a few times. So I contacted the host with my concerns asking if he might consider skipping the guy. He agreed and as far as I know we never heard from the noob again. Passes are prone to all kinds of problems even when every precaution is taken. It is indeed foolish to include newbies with no track record.

I hate to say it but I believe most passes should be invite only and even then I'm not so sure I'll ever participate in one again

ALT - Sorry this happened. I hope the rest of the pass comes off without a hitch :thumbs:

 

[moki]

Haven't been on in days, but you are mistaken about the pricing of the BTL.  I know MSRP of this, and just because it is only produced at the Holidays, does not mean it is worth more than what they sell it for, especially since it is now holiday time.  I restate, if you had special rules about the sticks they should have been posted.  If you felt somethinbg was worth more than retail, you should have posted, if you thought certain sticks needed to be saved just for you, you should have posted.

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You took one very rare annually released cigar (the BTL), and one very rare, very limited production 4 year old cigar that was released once (the PMM), and replaced them with two regular production, currently in release cigars.

Please provide me, via PM if you wish, the name and phone number of a store -- any store -- that I can call up right now, and purchase:

1) a Between the Lines for anything even close to the same price as a Davidoff Millennium Blend Robusto <about $11> (one of your puts)

2) a Padrón Millennium Maduro for anything even close to the same price as a Diamond Crown Pyramid Maduro <about $14> (your other put)

We'll ignore the "Up in Smoke Toro" because it's irrelevant to the discussion (if you want to try to make it relevant, then we're into quantity for quality, which is clearly wrong).

If you can do this, then I will apologize to you.

If you cannot do this, then you need to apologize, and make the situation right.

If you just blow me off, and don't respond to this request (either via PM or in this thread), then it's safe to say that you are done here on CP. Not because I have any power or influence here at all, but rather because everyone else will have seen how you responded.

Your move, eleuthardt.

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Still waiting...

 

[Allofus123]

My question is if LostTexan is so upset at a couple of FOG's trying to help out in his pass why bother?


"Well, ladies and gentlemen, Cohibasurfer, has decided to bow out of the pass, and I am actually a little relieved that he has, becuase all I have heard from his is complaints from the Puts/Takes, and I am really tired of it.

Please omit him from the pass, and I will be contacting the person before/after him to make sure they are aware of it.

Cohibasurfer, please get a life and try to enjoy it. You obviously have way too much stress in your current life, and try to put that on everyone else on this board.

ALostTexan"

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:0 Adding a little salt to ones words usually make them taste better.

 

[hudsonvalley]

This isn't meant to sound cold but it will regardless. Just advice that some of us that have been around for some time have come to learn.

Inviting newbies into a "premium" pass is foolish. While we hate to paint all newbies with the same brush you have to accept the fact that eventially you will get people who are ripoffs or generally have the attitude of this dude. Premium passes and unproven newbies just don't mix.... period!

LostTexan - if you'd like to send this pass to me at the end I'll see to it that a BTL and a few other rockets make it home.

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I agree wholeheartedly and I don't think it is cold to be plain spoken. I have only been on the board for one season and I wouldn't join a premium pass yet. It would just be too intimidating and stressful to be fun yet. And I wouldn't want to screw it up and ruin it for everyone down the line. I am in the midst of my second pass and am loving it but these are decidedly newbie oriented passes.

Forgive me for being entertained by the drama. Sometimes I have a twisted sense of humor even when valuable smokes are at stake

There is usually a good reason for rules and mores.

Finally, eleuthardt, step up to the plate, redeem yourself, and get righteous or get lost.

 

[SFG75]

O.K., so where are we with puts and takes?? Browndevil is up right?

 

[BrownDevil]

Well the pass is on its way again to Hawaii.
DC# is 0101 0521 2974 6836 2672

Puts / Takes:

Arturo Fuente Anejo #49 / Opus X xxx
PAN 1964 Monarca / Opus X Robusto
LFD Double Lingero Chisel / Carlos Torano Reserva Selecta Robusto


Thanks Lost for letting me participate. I wish I hadn't ended up after Eric on the pass but what the hell, it came safe, and left safe and smooth.

Robert

PS: I hesitate to even post this thought, but since everyone else has no problem with posting their own opinions, I figured why not. This is a ****ty thing that happened here, not only to our gracious host, but it also makes the rest of us feel lousy. I know the majority of folks here are pissed off, and offerering sound words of wisdom to ALT. But let's give the guy a break about who he let in. Hind sight is 20/20 and obviously he didn't know someone would be screwing him over.
The guy is either going to come clean or he isn't. I think we all know he probably won't, so there's probably not a whole lot of good to post the same opinion worded differently.

Let's just move on, enjoy the rest of the pass, and take a moment to be relieved he didn't make off with the whole box of goods.
Just my 2 cents worth.

 

[cigarsarge]

ALT was just trying to be a good guy and it bit him on the arse. I dought seriously that Eric will make it good so lets not forget that in the future. Lets move on with the pass and go back to having fun. :thumbs:

 

[BrownDevil]

ALT was just trying to be a good guy and it bit him on the arse. I dought seriously that Eric will make it good so lets not forget that in the future. Lets move on with the pass and go back to having fun. :thumbs:

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So much for posting the same opinion worded differently :laugh:

j/k

 

[gr8full2day]

HEY!!!! The Freaking pass didn't get stolen and tied up in an insuing investigation!! So the dick-cheese cheated the pass and the participants. The only blame belongs with the thief, and not the pass host or anyone else. There is certainly more important stuff than a PMM and whatever else is in question. There has been enough BS saying "I tried to tell ya" or "you shoulda" serves little positive purpose. Sorry 'Lost' for the threadjack, but just wanted to bitch about something and I found this thread!!!! Hope the rest of the pass goes better than as of late!! BTW is there room for me to join the pass? I got some rockets needing a home!! :laugh: :laugh:

 

[Triple_D]

:angry: someone has to have this dirtbag's address.

 

[moki]

I PM'd him the contents of my original post, and have it tracked -- so at least we'll know if he reads it or not.

 

[Lee]

Thanks to one of our members, I have his address. Now we'll wait and see what he does to make it right.

If the cigars are worth your credibility on this and every other cigar forum, I hope you enjoy them......

 

[ALostTexan]

In an effort to explain this pass, and what has transpired over the past week, I am going to recount all of the facts that I have been presented with. Trust me, this is going to be very long-winded, but I want to explain what has happened.

On Sept 30, I decided to start up a pass, simply because there were not many passes, if any, being organized. I had a decent amount of cigars, and wanted to experience a pass first-hand. I had been out of CigarPass for awhile, and wanted to really get back in the swing of things.

Eleuthardt wanted in the pass, and there were no big warning signs about him, other than he was a newbie. I did look at his history, and noticed that he had been in the "Newbie Pass" without any real issues, and that he had done a few other trades. I gave him the benefit of the doubt. Was that an error? Now it was, but hindsight is always 20/20. I also checked the history of some others that were pretty much newbies, at least much newer than I am on here, like s0ber and halffullmonte. Did the pass get burned by them? No. So it is a hard call.

The pass started out and went to s0ber, who wanted to take some Anejo's for a VSG and a PAM. I thought it would be fine, and said so, and the all hell broke loose. A member of the pass began to complain, saying that it was degrading to him and the pass to let this occur. I stood by my decision, and still stand by my decision. I thought they were decent P/T's, and I still stand by my decision. I also mentioned it to a FOG on the board, one that I always rely on for assistance. He has always been sort of a "mentor" to me, whether or not he believes that. He agreed with me on that, and I decided to just let it go. Should I have began an argument with the person that complained, either through PM's or on the board? Perhaps. But I decided to just let it go, because I believe in my heart that this particular person is sort of known for his complaints. I say that, and I stand by that. I decided to just let it go.

Then the pass made a 2nd stop, and again, I had complaints from the same person. The P/T's were fine this time, too, I thought. But, there was an Anejo involved, and that seems to have more value than gold on here. Fact is, I have absolutely no trouble getting Anejos, and have tons of them on hand. I don't feel that it is absolutely rare, and at this point, I have a harder time getting the 100 Anos line. I know that isn't the case everywhere, but in relation to the pass, I felt that the P/T's were fine. At that point, the member decided to drop out of the pass, and stated that it was to "keep from causing a ruckus", knowing very well that he was. I then went on the board, and stated that I was relieved that he was dropping out of the pass. Sorry I didn't keep it PM's, but with his history, and my frustration, I went public with it. I am not a person that is going to keep every little disagreement in PM's, because I feel that there are times that others should know how I feel. Could I have edited my post, and been all lovey-dovey about it when I was criticized about it? Of course, but to this day I have not edited my post. I will only edit a post when I have something factually wrong, i.e., an incorrect price, a mispelling, etc. I won't do it when I explain how I feel about a situation, and if that causes more ill-feelings, than so be it. I stand by my decisions on here, especially with the first 2 P/T's on here.

The pass moved on to Marito, who graciously put in a Padron Millennium, which was awesome. I thank Marito again for putting that into the pass, as it was an excellent addition to the pass. It then moved on to CaptainB, who I have dealt with many times on the board, and is a stand-up guy, and showed this by putting in a Hemingway Between the Lines.

The pass moved on down the easter seaboard, and with some excellent P/T's, the pass moved on out to Highland Village, the home of Eleuthardt. After several days of not knowing where the pass was, Eleuthardt posted a response that he had the pass, was taking the Padron Millennium and the BTL, and putting in a Davidoff Millennium Blend Robusto, a Diamond Crown Pyramid Maduro, and an "Up in Smoke" Toro. I immediatly felt that this was not a fair P/T, and immediately sent a PM, an email, and a message on Yahoo Messenger to get in contact with me about his P/T's. His Yahoo Messenger showed that he was still online, so I feel confident, although not 100% sure, that he received at least 1 of the messages.

My view on this situation is this. I know that everyone screws up in a pass from time to time, and that is sort of expected. There was a situation with myself earlier this year in which I took what turned out to be a rare VSG and didn't replace it with anything close to equal. I screwed up, although it wasn't pointed out to me until well after the pass was out of my hands. I honestly feel that Eleuthardt probably didn't realize what he was taking. That is why I wanted to speak with him about the situation. I never wanted to immediately put him on the scumbag list, or to publically ream him over the situation. I was taking it slowly, and doing what I thought was best.

I put in another message when I didn't hear back from him the next day, although I did know that he was online. Again, I put this message to him via PM, email, AND Yahoo Messenger, which again showed him to be online. His response to me via Yahoo was simply "whatever". There were several others that sent him messages about his P/T's, but none of them worked. This is a copy of the message that I sent to him....

Hey, I am afraid that I am going to have to shoot down the Puts/Takes from the box pass. I am not one that is going to complain too much, but I have to say no this time. The Between the Lines is a very limited edition cigar, only being released once a year, and the MSRP is listed around $15 or so. Again, it is a very limited edition cigar, so that value is probably even higher.

The Padron Millenium is the same thing. A very limited edition cigar, and the value is probably higher than it's MSRP.

Again, I am not trying to be a dick about this, as I generally have the feeling that if the cigars are at least close in value/price/rarity, then I am cool with it, but I am afraid that I am going to have to say something about it this time. Trust me, there are guys on here that will be all over this, so I would edit the post and choose something different to Put in or Take.

Feel free to contact me via PM, email, Yahoo Messenger, or even by phone to discuss this further.

Thanks,

ALostTexan

I didn't feel, and I still don't feel, that I was being a dick about this, and simply wanted him to understand what he was doing. Although several messages were sent to him on Monday and Tuesday, he ignored them, and shipped out the package.

Finally, he responded with the following post, and a copy of which was sent to me via PM....

I'm sorry you have an issue with my trades. I checked with my local retailer about prices before I made my choices. He can get me the BTL for $12, so my put of a Davidoff @ $14 should be just fine. In addition, the Padron, he has had this for $18. I put an $18 Diamond Crown Maduro. If there were "special" rules for certain sticks, I would have assumed they would have been posted ahead of time. Unfortunatley, I did not get any PMs before I left with the box. After my post yesterday, the box went in my car and to the office. When I left work today, I wen to the PO and shipped it.

Now, we all know that he has some major issues to explain with this. But, just to keep the facts straight, I happened to recognize the name "Up in Smoke", which is a chain of pretty good cigar shops around the Dallas area. I decided to verify if they could get me some of the BTL's for $12, and especially the Padron for $18. All of the guys at the 3 Up in Smoke's that I called had never heard of the Padron Millennium, therefore couldn't get them to me, and said that they hadn't seen any of the BTL's this year at all. That totally shot down the notion that Eleuthardt could get them for the absurd prices he was quoting. I also called several other high-end shops in the Dallas area, and had the same response from them about the BTL's, and the one shop that knew about the Millennium laughed when I ask if they were $18, but he still didn't have any. Now, did I call every single shop in Dallas? Of course not, but I did a pretty good sampling of the Dallas area shops, if if anyone has had any different experiences around there, please feel free to correct me on this.

I still stand by the notion that Eleuthardt probably is confusing the cigars for something else, like a '64 PAM or something like that, although he has pretty much dropped all lines of contact with me and the other members of the board. I do know that he has received a PM from me, which I tracked, on Dec 8th, and I see that the last time he was on CigarPass was Dec 9, although he is not communicating with me, or from what I understand, anyone else.

Again, I was hesitant to give his address to anyone, or to call for him to be added to the scumbag list, because I really wanted to try to work this out with him. For those that ask for his address, don't feel like I was intentionally ignoring you, I just was trying to be patient. There were others that felt this way, too. I still want to believe that his P/T's were honest mistakes, and mistakes that could be corrected, but he is not communicating in any way. For that reason, I feel that he has probably burned every bridge at CigarPass, and will probalby have no luck rebuilding them. I feel that if he wants to still be in the cigar world, this will catch up to him in the future, if not on the Internet, then in real-life. The internet cigar world is still exploding, and this will only be more evident in the local shops around the US and world.

I know that there are some out there that are sort of glad that something like this happened after the first part of this pass, and that is fine. Do I have egg on my face over it now? Maybe. If it burns me to stand by my words, then it burns me, and there is nothing I can do but run with my tail between my legs, which I am not going to do.

There are also a few FOG's that have offered to throw sticks in. That is not necessary, just the fact that you would be willing to do that means more than the cigars to me. $1,000,000 will buy you alot of good cigars, but it won't buy you friends on here to enjoy a few good smokes with and to offer to make up when someone else falls behind. That is what clearly separates people on here.

Sorry this is so long-winded, but I wanted to state all of the facts behind this pass, and it took a long time to do so. Thanks again for all of the kind words regarding this pass, and even for the criticism that I have received, because what doesn't kill you makes you stronger.

ALostTexan

 

[BrownDevil]

Well said! Hopefully the rest of the pass will go smoothly :thumbs: