OK Ask away

[dkprlp]

Do call others players up, to discuss the hand, while playing?

Not sure what you mean.

Do you talk with other players on the phone while playing on line? In other words, do you cheat against the BOTL's here?

no & no that wouldn't be fair

This is not a challenge of your word but applies to all on line poker players. How do other players know that a player is not doing this.......there is virtually no way to know and any player doing so would obviously deny it when asked.

Cheating is unacceptable to me. If I suspected someone of cheating I would refuse to play with that person. There have been circumstances where I have been cheated out of my winnings by players loosing and not paying at all. Just disappearing and never showing there face here again. Others that have won from me which were paid in a timely manner but when they loose they disappear not to return

 

[BlindedByScience]

Cheating is unacceptable to me. If I suspected someone of cheating I would refuse to play with that person. There have been circumstances where I have been cheated out of my winnings by players loosing and not paying at all. Just disappearing and never showing there face here again. Others that have won from me which were paid in a timely manner but when they loose they disappear not to return.

....like who? Got some names of folks that have "disappeared".....??

 

[CigarStone]

Do call others players up, to discuss the hand, while playing?

Not sure what you mean.

Do you talk with other players on the phone while playing on line? In other words, do you cheat against the BOTL's here?

no & no that wouldn't be fair

This is not a challenge of your word but applies to all on line poker players. How do other players know that a player is not doing this.......there is virtually no way to know and any player doing so would obviously deny it when asked.

Cheating is unacceptable to me. If I suspected someone of cheating I would refuse to play with that person. There have been circumstances where I have been cheated out of my winnings by players loosing and not paying at all. Just disappearing and never showing there face here again. Others that have won from me which were paid in a timely manner but when they loose they disappear not to return

Okay, let's accept that you wouldn't cheat. I ask the question again, if 90% of your involvement in CP is poker, are you a BOTL or just using CP as a poker outlet?

I have seen posts here that indicate you may be an expert or even a pro. I will also ask this.....If you are either an expert or a pro why are you using a cigar forum to practice your trade? Is the poker room here an easy mark?

 

[Devil Doc]

This is getting more complicated than it needs to be. Here's how I see it. This fella is not a contributor. He's not made one cigar related post that I'm aware of. He's a good experienced poker player. He's been playing for forty years.He wins much more often than he loses Most of you players haven't even been on the planet that long. . Is he preying on neophytes? Perhaps. My advice is, unless you're good, and let's keep our testosterone out of this, you shouldn't be playing with him. If he doesn't get any action, he'll go away. Oh, almost forgot, he seems to be enjoying the drama and attention.

Doc.

 

[nobius]

I have been silent on this until now. But I feel that a friend and a BOTL is under undeserved attack here.

I am another of the regulars in the poker room. Mine and DK's tally stands as such: 4:8. I have won 4 from him, and he has won 8 from me. His four to me was paid promptly, without need for reminding, and at a MUCH higher value than the $8 agreed upon MSRP.

I have paid 6 of the 8 that I owe him. 2 are on a tally to be paid out when the total reaches an agreed upon >4 cigars owed(to make shipping costs worth it, common amongst regulars in the room). When I paid him the 6 the average value was 8.75. Much lower than the average value of what he paid me with.

If he wants to sell those. Fine.
If he wants to gift those. Fine.
If he wants to break them into small pieces and use them as potpourri. Fine.

I did not "give" him those cigars. They were payment of a debt. Same as if he had bought them with his $8-16 buy-in for the poker games.

Dk's playing style does not suggest to me an online or real life poker pro. Someone who has played before and extensively? Yes.

As far as participating in the community, so he doesn't go into the same forums as grateful1 and Cigarstone every day. He does participate in chat at the poker table, answering many questions I have had about cigars. I have assisted him a couple of different times with computer issues through chat and PM. Sounds like particpation to me.

In other words, why the drama? B/c he deleted a sale post? Ok then.

dkprlp: Did you in any way cheat someone in this post? Did you misrepresent the cigars you were selling in any way shape or form? Were the prices posted so far above what value you had in the cigars as to be profiteering?

If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then there is a problem and a reason for dramatics. If not, then it has become melodramatics by people who I have never seen at the tables or, before this incident, in the poker forum.

If I have over-stepped my bounds as a "newb" I apologize. But no matter how long I have been in a room, whether it be in real life or virtual, I will not let someone I consider a friend be attacked.

Doug

 

[Wurm]

This is getting more complicated than it needs to be. Here's how I see it. This fella is not a contributor. He's not made one cigar related post that I'm aware of. He's a good experienced poker player. He's been playing for forty years.He wins much more often than he loses Most of you players haven't even been on the planet that long. . Is he preying on neophytes? Perhaps. My advice is, unless you're good, and let's keep our testosterone out of this, you shouldn't be playing with him. If he doesn't get any action, he'll go away. Oh, almost forgot, he seems to be enjoying the drama and attention.

Doc.

And my take on this is... he has done nothing wrong. And if people thought he was cheating this would have come up a long time before this.

It is time that this dies.

If you play poker and can't afford to either lose or break even your a dumb-ass in my opinion. If you don't want to play against dkprlp then don't. Its not his fault he knows how to play or that he likes to play here.

Has anyone he has lost to bitched about him sending them cigars? No. Then this is nothing but a big zero.

dkprlp. brother, the reason you haven't been in the radar is because you haven't done anything wrong here... EXCEPT deleting your OP in your sales post and refusing to repost it (I'm sorry dude, I'd only accept your "I forgot what I posted..." if you were a member of the high times forum instead of CP). You acknowledged that it was a mistake and that you won't do it again. So its now a mute point.

Are we so bored that we need to make drama?

I hope not, because that would reflect negatively on us as a community.

Shawn

 

[CigarStone]

I have been silent on this until now. But I feel that a friend and a BOTL is under undeserved attack here.

I am another of the regulars in the poker room. Mine and DK's tally stands as such: 4:8. I have won 4 from him, and he has won 8 from me. His four to me was paid promptly, without need for reminding, and at a MUCH higher value than the $8 agreed upon MSRP.

I have paid 6 of the 8 that I owe him. 2 are on a tally to be paid out when the total reaches an agreed upon >4 cigars owed(to make shipping costs worth it, common amongst regulars in the room). When I paid him the 6 the average value was 8.75. Much lower than the average value of what he paid me with.

If he wants to sell those. Fine.
If he wants to gift those. Fine.
If he wants to break them into small pieces and use them as potpourri. Fine.

I did not "give" him those cigars. They were payment of a debt. Same as if he had bought them with his $8-16 buy-in for the poker games.

Dk's playing style does not suggest to me an online or real life poker pro. Someone who has played before and extensively? Yes.

As far as participating in the community, so he doesn't go into the same forums as grateful1 and Cigarstone every day. He does participate in chat at the poker table, answering many questions I have had about cigars. I have assisted him a couple of different times with computer issues through chat and PM. Sounds like particpation to me.

In other words, why the drama? B/c he deleted a sale post? Ok then.

dkprlp: Did you in any way cheat someone in this post? Did you misrepresent the cigars you were selling in any way shape or form? Were the prices posted so far above what value you had in the cigars as to be profiteering?

If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then there is a problem and a reason for dramatics. If not, then it has become melodramatics by people who I have never seen at the tables or, before this incident, in the poker forum.

If I have over-stepped my bounds as a "newb" I apologize. But no matter how long I have been in a room, whether it be in real life or virtual, I will not let someone I consider a friend be attacked.

Doug

Doug:

It is commendable that you come to the rescue of a friend but just because he has helped you (his friend) on occasion with regard to cigars does not mean he contributes to Cigar Pass. It appears his agenda here has little to do with cigars other than a form of payment in a game he is skilled at.

If I came here with an agenda of finding pigeons who would play me in golf for cigars would I really be a BOTL just because the form of payment was cigars?

Of his roughly 75 threads, all but two are in the poker forum or explaining his behavior in the poker forum. Those two are sales for which he is also taking flak.

I guess my question is, why does anyone play with him? Maybe after all of this they won't.

 

[Wurm]

Maybe after all of this they won't.

I doubt it, why play against people who are not better than you? That's boring. And I speak with authority on the subject being a (almost) life long billiard player (who plays for money). The only way to get better is to play against people you have a good chance to lose to. And nothing feels better than to win against them.

And as I said in my last post... if he wasn't paying his losses, no one would want to play against him any more. Thats a fact you can take to bank.

*edit* And I'll play 8 ball against anyone here for a couple of good sticks! :sign:

 

[CigarStone]

Maybe after all of this they won't.

I doubt it, why play against people who are not better than you? That's boring. And I speak with authority on the subject being a (almost) life long billiard player (who plays for money). The only way to get better is to play against people you have a good chance to lose to. And nothing feels better than to win against them.

And as I said in my last post... if he wasn't paying his losses, no one would want to play against him any more. Thats a fact you can take to bank.

*edit* And I'll play 8 ball against anyone here for a couple of good sticks! :sign:

Shawn:

Your point about improvement as a result of playing against people better than you is 100% accurate. The difference I see here is that this is not the forum for that. When you play billiards for money or I play golf for money we do it at a billiard hall or golf course. I don't know about you I never went to a special interest group and tried to drum up my games.

Edited to add.....It seems I have gotten myself mired in something that isn't my business other than the general looking out for the community.....and I have said more than my share on that front.

 

[nobius]

I have been silent on this until now. But I feel that a friend and a BOTL is under undeserved attack here.

I am another of the regulars in the poker room. Mine and DK's tally stands as such: 4:8. I have won 4 from him, and he has won 8 from me. His four to me was paid promptly, without need for reminding, and at a MUCH higher value than the $8 agreed upon MSRP.

I have paid 6 of the 8 that I owe him. 2 are on a tally to be paid out when the total reaches an agreed upon >4 cigars owed(to make shipping costs worth it, common amongst regulars in the room). When I paid him the 6 the average value was 8.75. Much lower than the average value of what he paid me with.

If he wants to sell those. Fine.
If he wants to gift those. Fine.
If he wants to break them into small pieces and use them as potpourri. Fine.

I did not "give" him those cigars. They were payment of a debt. Same as if he had bought them with his $8-16 buy-in for the poker games.

Dk's playing style does not suggest to me an online or real life poker pro. Someone who has played before and extensively? Yes.

As far as participating in the community, so he doesn't go into the same forums as grateful1 and Cigarstone every day. He does participate in chat at the poker table, answering many questions I have had about cigars. I have assisted him a couple of different times with computer issues through chat and PM. Sounds like particpation to me.

In other words, why the drama? B/c he deleted a sale post? Ok then.

dkprlp: Did you in any way cheat someone in this post? Did you misrepresent the cigars you were selling in any way shape or form? Were the prices posted so far above what value you had in the cigars as to be profiteering?

If the answer to any of those questions is yes, then there is a problem and a reason for dramatics. If not, then it has become melodramatics by people who I have never seen at the tables or, before this incident, in the poker forum.

If I have over-stepped my bounds as a "newb" I apologize. But no matter how long I have been in a room, whether it be in real life or virtual, I will not let someone I consider a friend be attacked.

Doug

Doug:

It is commendable that you come to the rescue of a friend but just because he has helped you (his friend) on occasion with regard to cigars does not mean he contributes to Cigar Pass. It appears his agenda here has little to do with cigars other than a form of payment in a game he is skilled at.

If I came here with an agenda of finding pigeons who would play me in golf for cigars would I really be a BOTL just because the form of payment was cigars?

Of his roughly 75 threads, all but two are in the poker forum or explaining his behavior in the poker forum. Those two are sales for which he is also taking flak.

I guess my question is, why does anyone play with him? Maybe after all of this they won't.

I will still play poker with him b/c I think I am fairly evenly matched in heads up games, and maybe a little bit better at larger tables.

And if you came here looking for "pigeons" to take cigars from, then yes, there would be a problem. But if this site started a postal golf league, and I joined, and subsequently lost, would I be exempted from whatever the wager was simply because I am a lesser player than you? Should you be made a pariah because you have been playing longer and play better than me, but still accept the payment of my wager?

 

[Wurm]

Maybe after all of this they won't.

I doubt it, why play against people who are not better than you? That's boring. And I speak with authority on the subject being a (almost) life long billiard player (who plays for money). The only way to get better is to play against people you have a good chance to lose to. And nothing feels better than to win against them.

And as I said in my last post... if he wasn't paying his losses, no one would want to play against him any more. Thats a fact you can take to bank.

*edit* And I'll play 8 ball against anyone here for a couple of good sticks! :sign:

Shawn:

Your point about improvement as a result of playing against people better than you is 100% accurate. The difference I see here is that this is not the forum for that. When you play billiards for money or I play golf for money we do it at a billiard hall or golf course. I don't know about you I never went to a special interest group and tried to drum up my games.

The difference is that you don't see his playing as contributing to CP. I do. He makes the poker room fun for those who play against him. He pays his debts and chats about cigars with the people he plays against.

For over 2 years now. And no one has complained at all in that time.

So yes he is a contributing member, regardless if he bullshits in the lobby or not.

Look at some of the brothers who have 100,000 posted snippets in the (greatly lamented) chat-room and only have a 100 or so posts. Are you willing to call them out too? I'm not. I am of the firm opinion that other than editing his sales post that he has done nothing wrong.

Mountain out of a Molehill comes to mind.

 

[nobius]

And before this devolves into a "Why is this newb attacking these established members?"

Let it be known that I nothing but respect for grateful1, cigarstone, nullsmurf, and really everyone else in this thread. No matter which side of the issue they are on, no matter newb or FOG.

I disagree with them and I am presenting my arguments. None of which is intended or should be interpreted as any form of personal attack.

 

[Jonesy]

I agree with Doc. I don't care if someone's been here 3 years or not, if the only reason that they're here is for the poker room or the chat room, then they aren't a contributing member. If you want poker or chat and don't want to be involved in the community, there are plenty of sites that can accomodate your needs.

 

[Wurm]

I agree with Doc. I don't care if someones been here 3 years or not, if the only reason that they're here is for the poker room or the chat room, then they aren't a contributing member. If you want poker or chat and don't want to be involved in the community, there are plenty of sites that can accommodate your needs.

Well the chat room is already gone... so all we have to do is get rid of CP poker and everyone will be happy? Sorry bro but that is a crock of steaming fetid fecal matter. Now if you said the same thing about someone who ONLY shows his colors in the sales forum, I'd agree. But that isn't the case now is it?

 

[CigarStone]

I agree with Doc. I don't care if someone's been here 3 years or not, if the only reason that they're here is for the poker room or the chat room, then they aren't a contributing member. If you want poker or chat and don't want to be involved in the community, there are plenty of sites that can accomodate your needs.

Exactly, if the local church has a rec basketball league and you are the most prominent player are you an active member of the church?

I guess the question is......Is he here for more than the poker room? If the answer is no then the discussion is over. If the answer is yes then it begs another question.....why has he never participated in the main body of this community to date?

 

[Jonesy]

I agree with Doc. I don't care if someones been here 3 years or not, if the only reason that they're here is for the poker room or the chat room, then they aren't a contributing member. If you want poker or chat and don't want to be involved in the community, there are plenty of sites that can accommodate your needs.

Well the chat room is already gone... so all we have to do is get rid of CP poker and everyone will be happy? Sorry bro but that is a crock of steaming fetid fecal matter. Now if you said the same thing about someone who ONLY shows his colors in the sales forum, I'd agree. But that isn't the case now is it?

You missed the point Shawn. I'm not saying we should get rid of it, what I'm saying is that those who use it should be people that you actually see and hear from around here, not just people that only come in just to play poker. My statement you responded to was me giving my opinion that just because someone frequents the poker room or chat room isn't a contributing member to the community, not me wanting the room shut down.

 

[dkprlp]

Cheating is unacceptable to me. If I suspected someone of cheating I would refuse to play with that person. There have been circumstances where I have been cheated out of my winnings by players loosing and not paying at all. Just disappearing and never showing there face here again. Others that have won from me which were paid in a timely manner but when they loose they disappear not to return.

....like who? Got some names of folks that have "disappeared".....??

Yes I have there user names... Do you think you can help me recope my losses?

 

[CigarStone]

Cheating is unacceptable to me. If I suspected someone of cheating I would refuse to play with that person. There have been circumstances where I have been cheated out of my winnings by players loosing and not paying at all. Just disappearing and never showing there face here again. Others that have won from me which were paid in a timely manner but when they loose they disappear not to return.

....like who? Got some names of folks that have "disappeared".....??

Yes I have there user names... Do you think you can help me recope my losses?

Answer this question and I will try to help you recoup your losses. Are you a member of CP for any reason other than the poker room?

This is not an attack just trying to get to the bottom of the bottomless well.

 

[LilBastage]

I don't normally quote myself, but this is what I posted in the other thread about the poker room.

Perhaps it's attracting other people that have no interest in any other part of the board? That doesn't make them an active member in my book and I think that perhaps the Poker Room, like the Buy/Sell/Trade Room should possibly be restricted to active members. It would eliminate at least some of the potential for bad things happening if the participants are more known.

That's my opinion.

And if there are people who are not paying their debts, the board needs to know. It reflects poorly on the whole site and those people are not the type of people we want around here.

 

[Wurm]

You guys both have valid points and I'm trying my best not to argue with you.

But I see it differently. If he was a screw-up and people were not enjoying playing against him... we would have heard about it by now. That we haven't speaks volumes IMHO.

WE (as far as I know) don't play poker so WE have no idea what goes on in there. Who is to say he doesn't spend the entire game giving cigar advice? And even if he doesn't are we such a closed community that we are going to boot anyone who doesn't contribute in every forum every day? Hell I haven't said hello to a n00b in the welcome to CP forum in ages am I a bad member because of it?

Seriously now, trying to make every member measure up to some unwritten rule is only going to hurt CP. And that is what I am worried the most about.