Newbie Pass 101

[Gern Blansten]

While I recognize the "over put" on the first, I am okay with it as well. Your second is great and I'm jealous because I had my eye on that one. :thumbs:

 

[2K6TBSS]

Alright, here's my proposal:

T: (7) Brick House Short Torpedo
P: (26) Padron 5000 Maduro

T: (9) Don Pepin Garcia My Father Le Bijou 1922 Torpedo
P: (27) Illusione Epernay Le Matin

The Padron may be a bit too much over, but I'm confident the Le Matin is good for the Le Bijou. What do you guys think?

They look good to me, assuming that Jake approves the price jump on the first one.

 

[ilikefishes]

Dammit, I wanted the My Father as well. Enjoy my friend and they look fine to me as well. Great put on the second one too.

 

[BigJake6904]

I'm fine with it as long as everyone else will let allow it. Jake, how does a 50% bump usually work in a regular pass?

Over-puts are okay...especially at the lower price points....it's when you put a $20 cigar for a $10 cigar that can create a bunch of issues if it's done too many times.

 

[BigJake6904]

Alright, here's my proposal:

T: (7) Brick House Short Torpedo
P: (26) Padron 5000 Maduro

T: (9) Don Pepin Garcia My Father Le Bijou 1922 Torpedo
P: (27) Illusione Epernay Le Matin

The Padron may be a bit too much over, but I'm confident the Le Matin is good for the Le Bijou. What do you guys think?

The first one is obviously good....wondering what your pricing information and sources are for the second P/T?

 

[ilikefishes]

Alright, here's my proposal:

T: (7) Brick House Short Torpedo
P: (26) Padron 5000 Maduro

T: (9) Don Pepin Garcia My Father Le Bijou 1922 Torpedo
P: (27) Illusione Epernay Le Matin

The Padron may be a bit too much over, but I'm confident the Le Matin is good for the Le Bijou. What do you guys think?

The first one is obviously good....wondering what your pricing information and sources are for the second P/T?

Yeah, I wasn't sure if I had the wrong information on that one too. I love the Epernay, but from my research it is not close to the My Father. I may be wrong but I had that stick rated a lot higher in value.

 

[MarkJr]

When I did my research on it, according to smoke inn, the myfather is $58.75 for a fiver ($11.75 a stick). On the same website the Illusione is $56.00 for a fiver ($11.20 a stick). I know they My Father Is new this year but as far as I know they are to become regular production, same as the Illusione. Am I missing anything?

 

[MrAnderson41]

For what it's worth here is my comparison of the sticks in questions:

My Father - $10.56 (Holts), $10.56 (Famous), $10.43 (Smoke Inn) = $10.52 average
Le Matin - $9.56 (Cigars International), $9.84 (Serious Cigars), $11.20 (Smoke Inn) = $10.20 average

This one looked like the no brainer to me but maybe I'm missing something though.

 

[engspot]

You have to try and compare same-site pricing when possible.

Smoke Inn prices are very close. I quickly looked at other sites and saw the same, but Illusione pricing varies quite a bit.

MFLB is about $240/23 box ($10.43)
Illusione is $240-280/25 box ($9.60-$11.20)

Personally I'd say it looks good, that's just my 2 cents on this one.

 

[Joebunaga]

For what it's worth here is my comparison of the sticks in questions:

My Father - $10.56 (Holts), $10.56 (Famous), $10.43 (Smoke Inn) = $10.52 average
Le Matin - $9.56 (Cigars International), $9.84 (Serious Cigars), $11.20 (Smoke Inn) = $10.20 average

This one looked like the no brainer to me but maybe I'm missing something though.

Plus Uptown has the Epernay for $11.20 and my local B&M(Habana House) has the Epernay at $11.20 and the Don Pepin at $10.50.

 

[BigJake6904]

I'll take a closer look when I get home from work this afternoon.

 

[mjolnir01]

Admittedly a little bit of a struggle finding three vendors who had both smokes, but this is what I had found:

T: (9) Don Pepin Garcia My Father Le Bijou 1922 Torpedo--$10.49
Corona Cigar: $243.95/23 = $10.60, Smoke Inn: $239.95/23 = $10.43, Uptown Cigar: $239.95/23 = $10.43

P: (27) Illusione Epernay Le Matin--$11.07
Corona Cigar: $269.95/25 = $10.80, Smoke Inn: $279.95/25 = $11.20, Uptown Cigar: $279.95/25 = $11.20

 

[MrAnderson41]

You have to try and compare same-site pricing when possible.

Admittedly a little bit of a struggle finding three vendors who had both smokes, but this is what I had found:

I thought the whole purpose of averaging the price from three sources was to avoid this very problem. It would be very difficult, and sometimes impossible, to find pricing on two sticks from three vendors that all carry both sticks.

I don't think same-site pricing matters at all. A vendor may have a higher mark up on a particular brand/line which could skew the results if that were the case. Besides, per the rules of this pass we are supposed to average the price from three reputable vendors for price comparisons.

This P/T looks fine by me.

 

[2K6TBSS]

You have to try and compare same-site pricing when possible.

Admittedly a little bit of a struggle finding three vendors who had both smokes, but this is what I had found:

I thought the whole purpose of averaging the price from three sources was to avoid this very problem. It would be very difficult, and sometimes impossible, to find pricing on two sticks from three vendors that all carry both sticks.

I don't think same-site pricing matters at all. A vendor may have a higher mark up on a particular brand/line which could skew the results if that were the case. Besides, per the rules of this pass we are supposed to average the price from three reputable vendors for price comparisons.

This P/T looks fine by me.

I think the the reason for looking at the same vendor for pricing is because of the possible pricing issues.

Corona might have a different pricing model than Uptown, so comparing the two sites wouldn't really give you a good idea of the "real" price (if you are looking at 2 different cigars brands). If you look at 2 different brands from the same vendor, you know that the pricing model is going to be the same.

Uptown for example will markup their product x% so you know that cigar A and cigar B will be a good comparison (price wise). Where comparing cigar A price from Corona and cigar B from Uptown doesn't really work because of pricing models differences.

I agree that we need to look at multiple vendors to find value of the cigar, but the vendor should have both lines that you are looking at.

Just my $.02



Edit - Clarity, still not sure if it sounds right. In my head I know what I want to say, but for some reason it isn't coming out right on the keyboard.... ???

 

[MrAnderson41]

I think the the reason for looking at the same vendor for pricing is because of the possible pricing issues.

Corona might have a different pricing model than Uptown, so comparing the two sites wouldn't really give you a good idea of the "real" price (if you are looking at 2 different cigars brands). If you look at 2 different brands from the same vendor, you know that the pricing model is going to be the same.

Uptown for example will markup their product x% so you know that cigar A and cigar B will be a good comparison (price wise). Where comparing cigar A price from Corona and cigar B from Uptown doesn't really work because of pricing models differences.

I agree that we need to look at multiple vendors to find value of the cigar, but the vendor should have both lines that you are looking at.

Just my $.02



Edit - Clarity, still not sure if it sounds right. In my head I know what I want to say, but for some reason it isn't coming out right on the keyboard.... ???

I understand what you're trying to say. However, what if vendor A carries both cigars 1 and 2. Let's say that vendor A got a really good deal from the distributor on cigar 1 and decided to reduce the price of cigar 1.

You wouldn't get a fair comparison in that case.

As for looking at multiple vendors that carry both lines, that is near impossible to do in most cases. When I put together my research for this pass there were only three of the original 25 cigars that were carried by all three of the "starting point" vendors (Holts, Serious, Smoke Inn) which gives you an indication of how difficult it is to actually find three vendors that all carry the same lines.

I think this very discussion is the reason why passes have rules set up in advance. In our case, the rules are compare three reputable vendors and not three reputable vendors that all carry the same line of cigars being discussed.

**Edited to clean up the quotes (i.e., had too many of them)**

 

[Bsneed51]

By comparing cigar prices from the same vendor however, you are factoring in area taxes, the same shop overhead, etc. A shop in NY will have to mark up prices higher due to taxes, and the overhead cost associated with having to pay rent prices in NY, as compared to a shop in Kentucky. If you are comparing prices from KC to California, you are going to have some very wide price differences on the same cigar. Sure some shops get a better deal from cigar manufactuers they buy more product from, but usually it's not enough to make that big of a retail price difference. I think when possible, finding two cigars from the same vendor is preferable for price comparison reasons. I can make two similar priced cigars have a huge price difference if I want to cherry pick prices from certain vendors. The thing I would tell you, is that you guys have been in this hobby for a while, and you are smart guys...so just use common sense and for the most part it will work out correctly.

Just my .02

 

[MrAnderson41]

By comparing cigar prices from the same vendor however, you are factoring in area taxes, the same shop overhead, etc. A shop in NY will have to mark up prices higher due to taxes, and the overhead cost associated with having to pay rent prices in NY, as compared to a shop in Kentucky. If you are comparing prices from KC to California, you are going to have some very wide price differences on the same cigar. Sure some shops get a better deal from cigar manufactuers they buy more product from, but usually it's not enough to make that big of a retail price difference. I think when possible, finding two cigars from the same vendor is preferable for price comparison reasons. I can make two similar priced cigars have a huge price difference if I want to cherry pick prices from certain vendors. The thing I would tell you, is that you guys have been in this hobby for a while, and you are smart guys...so just use common sense and for the most part it will work out correctly.

Just my .02

I didn't think that internet pricing included local taxes. Also, as far the overhead costs are concerned, the beautiful thing about the internet is that if Vendor A has a higher overhead than Vendor B and therefore has to charge more than Vendor B, you can easily purchase from Vendor B at the lower price.

Don't get me wrong, I don't think you should cherry pick your vendors to bias the comparison one way or the other. If at all possible when developing an averaged price comparison you should try to use vendors that carry the both lines in question when possible.

However, what I am trying to say, is that a price comparison from a single vendor, just because they carry both lines in questions, does not trump a price comparison based on averaged pricing from multiple vendors even if not all of those vendor carry both lines.

 

[Joebunaga]

All good points, all valid. I think that averaging the established vendors, as well as vendors we individually choose is really going to bring in the same data. Most of these guys are pretty competitive, if they aren't, their pricing sticks out like a sore thumb(like in pricing on Opus for example).

At present we have named:
on Don Pepin
Holts 10.56
Famous 10.56
Smoke Inn 10.43
Habana House 10.50
Corona Cigar 10.60
Uptown Cigar 10.43

Averaged to: 10.51

on Illusione
Cigars International 9.56
Serious Cigars 9.84
Smoke Inn 11.20
Corona Cigar 10.80
Uptown Cigar 11.20
Habana House 11.20

Averaged to: 10.63

Personally I would lean towards a slightly higher price on the Illusione, but at .25-.75, I'm not sure that it would matter in the end.

My .02

*edited because I left one of the Illusione sources off which changed the average.

 

[MarkJr]

I would have to agree with Joebunga on this... Even when all is said and done we are talking about less than a dollar difference. I agree that the p/t should be as close as possible, but if a one dollar difference is too large then why is the other one ok? To find an exact match is going to be near impossible, so since it is going to be less than a 10% difference I don't see this as being a big deal.

 

[MrAnderson41]

All good points, all valid. I think that averaging the established vendors, as well as vendors we individually choose is really going to bring in the same data. Most of these guys are pretty competitive, if they aren't, their pricing sticks out like a sore thumb(like in pricing on Opus for example).

Personally I would lean towards a slightly higher price on the Illusione, but at .25-.75, I'm not sure that it would matter in the end.

Even when all is said and done we are talking about less than a dollar difference.

I think we're all in agreement that the P/T is fine, especially if the first one is allowed with nearly a $2.00 over put.

I'm glad we're having this discussion though as I think we're all already learning something along the way.