Mixing 65% and 70% beads

[Shooter]

Sometimes I dunno, I know if I over soak my 65 beads, the humidity jumps to 70-72 and will stay there. Unless I open my cooler for awhile and let things air out. The beads do come dry and you are told to lighty mist them.

So I dunno, I think its wierd if my beads are at 62-65 forever then I decided to experiment and add water and the humidity jumped up to 70-72. And I didn't totally soak , I just added a little more water than usual.

I dunno.

 

[NullSmurf]

Sometimes I dunno, I know if I over soak my 65 beads, the humidity jumps to 70-72 and will stay there. Unless I open my cooler for awhile and let things air out. The beads do come dry and you are told to lighty mist them.

So I dunno, I think its wierd if my beads are at 62-65 forever then I decided to experiment and add water and the humidity jumped up to 70-72. And I didn't totally soak , I just added a little more water than usual.

I dunno.

I'll speculate that happens because of excess water on the beads. My ambient RH is always lower, so I don't need my beads to remove moisture. When you soak them as I do, you will have water trapped between beads due to surface tension. A half pound of beads in a mesh bag can trap an extra half ounce of water that way. Just misting shouldn't do that, unless the beads are already saturated. In a large humi, I don't think thats a biggie. In a mostly full cooler or desktop, that can be significant. I let mine sit on a paper towel for half an hour before I put them back.

 

[Shooter]

I have yet to hear why the beads are so much different. I have always just heard that they ARE. Thats my only question, is how do they differ than the cheap alternative. Other than they just DO. Maybe it is a trade secret that can't be revealed. Just curious myself.

Shane

 

[LilBastage]

Long-term experimentation has already been done with the Exquisicat litter. You can find all the info you need about the results at Cigar Weekly in the humidor section. They turn out to behave in almost the exact same way as the beads being sold for humidors. In my own tests, I have found the litter (even another brand that is not the perfect little spheres) to perform as well as the beads. I just charged them with some water and let them go just like the beads. They stabilized right around 68-72% in a cooler. After adding my smokes, the humidity dropped a bit for a few days and then went back up. It held at about 69-70% for months. I now have a fridge with active humidification and a few beads as a fail safe.

The silica in the packets that come in your shoes or other goods is not the same. It is strictly for absorbing moisture until saturated. It is usually a silica sand based gel that contains both silica sand and a binding agent that prevents the moisture from being released. This is according to a local chemist I used to play golf with.

The kitty litter is designed to absorb the moisture of the cat's bidness and then release the H2O as it evaporates leaving behind the other "odor causing" agents. It is 100% silica sand. This is what the packaging that my kitty litter came in said.

I am by no means an expert on anything, but I trust this information as much as anything else and I have seen the kitty litter in action.

The security that comes with purchasing the beads is important to a lot of people. They trust the product to work as advertised and enjoy the lack of doubt that their purchase gives them. That is what makes the premium price worth it to a lot of people. There does seem to be an alternative, but I won't judge anyone who chooses to go the trusted route. It may not be necessary for me, but it is for some.

 

[NullSmurf]

I'd get a graph recording hygrometer if I could afford one. I actually supervised a metrology lab (calibration of test devices) whe I was at Martin Marietta. I'm anal about the RH, not so much to protect the cigars as much as I'm just anal. The way I watch my stash, I could probabaly do the cheap stuff. I've chosen to spend a total of about $50 on 65% beads from Viper. Once. I'm done. Won't need them again unless I let them get clogged with contaminants. I now have some longer term storage that I won't be opening very often. The RH is rock solid near 65% and I know I don't have to lift the lid to check.

I wonder how the kitty litter works (for kitties) along the Gulf coast?

 

[bubbaco]

Interesting stuff here. I'd be interested in your test results with the kitty litter there NullSmurf.

Does anyone else use the Exquisicat beads, in particular to raise humidy? If so, are they doing the job for you?

 

[Shooter]

I guess the only way to know, would be to take a half pound of 60 beads and a half pound of 70 beads. Soak the 70's and toss em both in. Eventually the 60's would be clear and the 70's would be white. Then you would know if there really is a difference between the two. They shouldn't equal out, if they did then there is no difference between the two.

 

[mdutch]

I don't have a problem with that. My only point is that these are NOT the same as the beads. You have chosen to do the moisture management manually. Viper/Humidipuck beads are self regulating.

HELLO!
I'm not saying they're the same as "museum beads".
The high-end beads are $35 a pound at GOOD prices.
The Exquisicat is not a "bead" but a coarse crystal silica gel
of various sizes but the same chemical and physical properties at $.52/lb.

You have to do a little work.

For those who do not want to work, there's people who will come to your house and cut your cigars and light them for you.
For those who are "average folks" who don't have $35/lb to spend on beads, these suckers do 98% of the job. All you need to do is have $12 for 8lbs at Petsmart, and be able to read.

The money saved can be spend on cigars.

If you want to argue. Go find a nice cigar thread and talk about appearance, taste and construction.

Geezy Chriessey dood. It's a free capital-driven world. Go spend all you want on silica gel. This info was for those who think $35 a pound is a bit much for something that can't get you fat, high, or happy.

Footnote to rant. Bruce, your postscript is my absolute favorite quote. KUdos, bud.

 

[vin#]

I don't have a problem with that. My only point is that these are NOT the same as the beads. You have chosen to do the moisture management manually. Viper/Humidipuck beads are self regulating.

HELLO!
I'm not saying they're the same as "museum beads".
The high-end beads are $35 a pound at GOOD prices.
The Exquisicat is not a "bead" but a coarse crystal silica gel
of various sizes but the same chemical and physical properties at $.52/lb.

You have to do a little work.

For those who do not want to work, there's people who will come to your house and cut your cigars and light them for you.
For those who are "average folks" who don't have $35/lb to spend on beads, these suckers do 98% of the job. All you need to do is have $12 for 8lbs at Petsmart, and be able to read.

The money saved can be spend on cigars.

If you want to argue. Go find a nice cigar thread and talk about appearance, taste and construction.

Geezy Chriessey dood. It's a free capital-driven world. Go spend all you want on silica gel. This info was for those who think $35 a pound is a bit much for something that can't get you fat, high, or happy.

Footnote to rant. Bruce, your postscript is my absolute favorite quote. KUdos, bud.

I remember doing some research on kitty litter 3 months ago on various forums. There was very little talk about it, and when someone asked about it there was a lot of disagreement. After enough research, I found the same brand at Petsmart.

ExquisiCat Pearl Fresh:

Closeup:

I admit, I do not know anything. I'm just a newbie. All I did was throw a handful into a plastic bowl completely saturated. After that, I threw in some dry beads. I stuck it in an empty 28qt. cooler, and a few days later it was at 70% RH. I kept adding dry beads until I got 65% RH. After I got the 65% RH, I left it for a week to see if it will hold that RH. It did so I started filling it up. During the warmer season, I got 65%-64% RH. Right now it's at 64%-63%. I do open the cooler daily, and every now and then I add some distilled water. For the 3 months using this method, I think it works pretty good.

 

[burn-slow]

I have the viper beads in my main humi but I'll try these in one of my other smaller humi's looks interesting

 

[NullSmurf]

Since its snowing in Denver right now, I'll use an analogy. Viper beads is heat using a thermostat. Set your comfort temp and go take a nap. You could also chose to heat your home with fireplaces. You have one in each in each room to heat your home. They've worked fine for centuries. However, sometimes it gets really hot, sometimes it gets cold depending on how much time you can spend keeping up the fires.

Kitty litter works. I've never argued that it doesn't.

 

[beaucredo]

Since its snowing in Denver right now, I'll use an analogy. Viper beads is heat using a thermostat. Set your comfort temp and go take a nap. You could also chose to heat your home with fireplaces. You have one in each in each room to heat your home. They've worked fine for centuries. However, sometimes it gets really hot, sometimes it gets cold depending on how much time you can spend keeping up the fires.

Kitty litter works. I've never argued that it doesn't.

Good analogy bruce! I dont plan on using the litter anytime soon.

 

[Saxjazzman]

I know that this is way off the subject, but this problem is really up there in terms of a mathematical physics problem. I was thinking about this and I have to tell you that the mathematics that would be involved here would be a tough nut to crack. I am thankful that this is a case you don't need to solve the damm equation to get what you want. But thinking about the give and take of the beads, the surface area, chemical reactions, the differential equations that would have to be solved, the atmospheric physics that comes into play every time the humi is open, really makes this problem interesting...

 

[eringg]

Easy on the math it's Sunday

 

[Shooter]

I know that this is way off the subject, but this problem is really up there in terms of a mathematical physics problem. I was thinking about this and I have to tell you that the mathematics that would be involved here would be a tough nut to crack. I am thankful that this is a case you don't need to solve the damm equation to get what you want. But thinking about the give and take of the beads, the surface area, chemical reactions, the differential equations that would have to be solved, the atmospheric physics that comes into play every time the humi is open, really makes this problem interesting...

I ve got the equations if ya want em. Just pm me your email addy

 

[Burnt Tongue]

I was always a little embarassed to admit I used kitty litter in my humidors. I am here to tell you that it works great and I have had no problems. By the way with the money I saved I bought cigars not steak!

 

[Saxjazzman]

I was always a little embarassed to admit I used kitty litter in my humidors. I am here to tell you that it works great and I have had no problems. By the way with the money I saved I bought cigars not steak!

I remember when I told my kids that I needed some kitty liter for my humi and they wanted to know why I was willing to let the cat in there to make!! It made me laugh.. :laugh:

 

[NullSmurf]

I don't have a problem with that, BT, nor do I think it should be embarassing (so long as you hide the fact from your cat). The smoke you like is the best smoke around, not the reverse. If the unregulated silica (kitty litter) is working and its cheap, that's great. I prefer the 65% beads, not because I can't do the math, but because I don't want to.

 

[Shooter]

I don't have a problem with that, BT, nor do I think it should be embarassing (so long as you hide the fact from your cat). The smoke you like is the best smoke around, not the reverse. If the unregulated silica (kitty litter) is working and its cheap, that's great. I prefer the 65% beads, not because I can't do the math, but because I don't want to.

Quick question.. What do you mean by "unregulated"

 

[Allofus123]

Since its snowing in Denver right now, I'll use an analogy. Viper beads is heat using a thermostat. Set your comfort temp and go take a nap. You could also chose to heat your home with fireplaces. You have one in each in each room to heat your home. They've worked fine for centuries. However, sometimes it gets really hot, sometimes it gets cold depending on how much time you can spend keeping up the fires.

Your anology is wrong!

I have used the KLH for years in a cabinet humidor and it is rock steady. Note I said cabinet humidor...... all the humidity one could need for any size humidor. Here is a document I had put together a few years ago. I have no idea what the kitty litter sells for today but I made 4 lbs of conditioned beads for under $10 several years back and am still using it today. Its not rocket science no matter how anal you are.... its controlled humidity.


“KLH” or Kitty Litter Humidification

Humidity Control with conditioned Silica Gel

One can make generic 'Climaxx Beads' at any desired control point above 40% Relative humidity (RH) by buffering/conditioning generic silica gel.

Buy a container of silica gel crystals/beads used in cat box liter like 'ExquisiCat Crystals' or ‘Kitty Pearl’. (around $8-$10 for approx 4 pounds). Read the label and verify the contents are 100% silica gel crystals. Don't use the product with blue colored crystals mixed in. The beads will be white/clear/opaque. Smell the silica gel crystals/beads and make certain no fragrance is present; there should be no smell whatsoever. Reread this paragraph. It is important that what you buy is 100% silica gel crystals without any colored crystals/beads mixed in with it and absolutely no fragrance.

Silica gel will 'condition', that is, accept or reject water vapor to maintain an equilibrium RH. The easiest way to condition the beads is to place them in a humidor that is already stable at the humidification level you want to ‘set’ the beads to or a container that you can control the humidity level within. You will need an accurate hygrometer. Place your beads into the control environment you have chosen once you have the humidity within stable at the level you want to condition the beads to. You will stir the beads daily so that all the beads are being conditioned but do it quickly. You’re trying to maintain the environment and a open door or lid allows that enviroment to change. The less changing of air the better. Keep in mind that the beads will be absorbing humidification from the environment and this will naturally drop the humidity reading from within this environment. Lets say your set point is 65% RH. Once you have the environment holding steady at this level you will introduce the beads. The humidity reading will drop. After a day or so, maybe sooner or maybe longer, the humidity will start to rise. As the beads continue to absorb the moisture within the environment the humidity reading will continue to rise. Replenish your humidification device as needed until the beads plateau at your desired % of humidity. This may take a few days or a week or two but the objective is to get the environment to stabilize at the desired % of humidity you want to ‘set’ the beads and then maintain it at that level for approx 2 weeks. Once these beads have been maintained at the desired level for two weeks you have ‘set’ the beads memory and you may now remove them and use them. They will maintain the same level as what you set the memory to.

As you use the beads when the humidity drops a few points you should lightly mist the beads with distilled water and it will once again regulate the humidity at the set point. I conditioned mine at 65% and find when my humidity levels drop to approx 63/62 its time to give them a misting and that takes the humidity right back to 65% (sometimes 66/67%). If you desire to reset the memory set point its as simply as maintaining the beads at the new ‘Set’ level you desire for two weeks. I would recommend reconditioning any beads left in an uncontrolled environment for longer than a week

I personally used an old humidor with a divider to keep the beads to one side and my humidifier to the other. The humidifier I used was a Cigar Oasis which really made things simple as all I had to do was first get the humidity in the humidor level to 65 (my desired set point) then add the beads and stir daily. Since the Cigar Oasis is automatic and I had already set it to maintain 65% all I had to do was make sure the oasis did not run out of distilled water. Once the beads finally reached 65% the Cigar Oasis maintained that for the two week period and I was done.

Do not get caught up in everything having to happen immediately. This is a slow process and you really can’t screw it up. You can not take a short cut by adding water to the beads. You need to allow the beads to slowly absorb the humidity from within your controlled environment and it will take some time for them to rise to your desired set point. Do not get discouraged. If the humidity is low and rising towards your goal set point then everything is working as it should. Should the rising humidity stall for a day or two at a point lower than your memory set point goal I would recommend you check whatever device you are using for humidification as the beads may have absorbed it all and you will need to recharge the humidifier. You can use any container to condition the beads as long as you can create and maintain a humidified environment at the level you want to ‘Set’ the beads to.