Mixing 65% and 70% beads

[beaucredo]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

I am sorry if this is someware else, i did a search and found nothing.

 

[NullSmurf]

All of the beads will work together to reach 65%. The 70% will continue to expel moisture after 65% while the 65% will absorb it until saturated. I think you'll make 67-68% and hang. I'd like to create a environment to test the theory. I would NOT care to conduct this experiment with a couple of thousand dollars worth of cigars.

 

[Devil Doc]

Viper recomended against this in a previous post. Try the search fuction.

Doc.

 

[beaucredo]

so i guess my next question is which do people use (65 or 70) if they keep both ISOMs and regular cigars in the same cooler?

 

[Devil Doc]

60 to 65% is where it's at. Draw and burn issues seem to occur above that RH.

Doc.

 

[beaucredo]

Viper recomended against this in a privious post. Try the search fuction.

Doc.

Thanks for giving me the answer Doc!


P.S. i did try searching...i searched mix beads, 65% 70% mix, and mixing rh beads...and got no results

60 to 65% is where it's at. Draw and burn issues seem to occur above that RH.

Doc.

Thanks, so always use the 65% beads gotcha

Edit: added the second thank you.

 

[rectifythis]

I am the one who asked this question before:

QUOTE(rectifythis @ Dec 2 2006, 09:43 AM)

Hey Viper, if I have 65 beads and mix them with 70 beads, would this give me around about 67?



Sorry but no. What you will get is the rh at 70% until those beads are empty of moisture then the rh will drop to 65% until those are empty of moisture.


As far as which to chose, Get the 65%. 70% is for aging cigars. 65 is much better for smoking.

 

[PuroEsq]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

I am sorry if this is someware else, i did a search and found nothing.

It will cause a rip int he space/time continum. :sign:

Really, follow the advice of Viper in this regard.

 

[viper139]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

I am sorry if this is someware else, i did a search and found nothing.

Happy to answer again.

What will happen is the humidor will go to 70% initially. The 65% beads will absorb until they are full trying to bring the rh down to 65%. When the 70% have given up all their moisture then the rh in the humidor will drop to 65% and stay there until the 65% beads are dry.

But it may also cause a tear in the space time continuum, have not tested that and I don't think I will.

 

[CoventryCat86]

All of the beads will work together to reach 65%. The 70% will continue to expel moisture after 65% while the 65% will absorb it until saturated. I think you'll make 67-68% and hang. I'd like to create a environment to test the theory. I would NOT care to conduct this experiment with a couple of thousand dollars worth of cigars.

No need to test that theory, viper explained it perfectly. :thumbs:

 

[tone-ny]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

I am sorry if this is someware else, i did a search and found nothing.

Happy to answer again.

What will happen is the humidor will go to 70% initially. The 65% beads will absorb until they are full trying to bring the rh down to 65%. When the 70% have given up all their moisture then the rh in the humidor will drop to 65% and stay there until the 65% beads are dry.

But it may also cause a tear in the space time continuum, have not tested that and I don't think I will.

This part alarms me ???

 

[beaucredo]

Thanks everyone for your time and help!

 

[viper139]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

I am sorry if this is someware else, i did a search and found nothing.

Happy to answer again.

What will happen is the humidor will go to 70% initially. The 65% beads will absorb until they are full trying to bring the rh down to 65%. When the 70% have given up all their moisture then the rh in the humidor will drop to 65% and stay there until the 65% beads are dry.

But it may also cause a tear in the space time continuum, have not tested that and I don't think I will.

This part alarms me ???

There are some things that should go untested.......this is one of them. ???

 

[mdutch]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

First off, I've spent only five years in the world of cigar collection and storage, but have some background in archiving humidity-sensitive media. When I started with cigars, I did what you're doing now, spending $30-40 lb for "calibrated" beads. A few hundred dollars later and needing more beads for my ever expanding collection of coolidors, I sat down one day and slapped my head. Beads are beads. They're ALL made from silica sand. The "DO NOT EAT" packets of silica gel are the same material.

I started experimenting with this stuff as I've sent several large boxes of smokes over to the troops in Iraq, and have needed to balance large quantities of donated sticks (in various levels of moisture control), plus have an economical way of keeping them balanced while shipping, plus provide the troops with a way of keeping their sticks moist in sometimes desert environments.

Basically, un-scented pure silica crystals kitty litter is the same material as your expensive "calibrated" humidification beads. There's no "calibration" other than the amount of moisture in them. The only differences is the particle size ("beads" are spherical, crystals are irregular)

There may be a psychological issue to get over the idea of using kitty litter in your humidor, and there are those who will not have the interest to "fiddle" and can afford to pay Prime Tenderloin prices for silica sand, but if you're wanting to get serious about humidity control here's some basics.

Basic rules:
1. Go to PetSmart or order online for Exquisicat Crystals Cat Litter
2. You can't have "too many" crystals in your storage container. The more silica media, the less variance you'll have.
3. Find or purchase clean nylon stockings or pantyhose. Pour the crystals into the hose and knot the ends, making a loose "sausage" about 1-2" in diameter and 6-12" long. Squeeze it around to distribute the crystals evenly along the length.
4. Calculate about 70% of its length, and grab it there. Saturate the big end in distilled water for about five-ten seconds. Drain it. Put the whole "sausage" into a ziplock bag for a few hours with a spare hygrometer. You'll probably find it runs between 65-75%.

With a little experimentation on your method, you can quickly and easily create pretty large humidification devices with surprisingly accurate readings.

Now take that $30 and go buy yourself a nice 24oz piece of prime tenderloin for you and your honey.

 

[PuroEsq]

I plan on putting together a Coolerdor in the near future, and want to be able to store ISOMs as well as non-ISOM cigars...seeing as many of you feel that 65% is best for ISOM and 70% is best for other cigars. So my question is if i mix an equal amount of 65% beads and 70% beads will they moderate to a 67-68% humidity or will that make the beads work against each other, making the coolerdor unstable?

First off, I've spent only five years in the world of cigar collection and storage, but have some background in archiving humidity-sensitive media. When I started with cigars, I did what you're doing now, spending $30-40 lb for "calibrated" beads. A few hundred dollars later and needing more beads for my ever expanding collection of coolidors, I sat down one day and slapped my head. Beads are beads. They're ALL made from silica sand. The "DO NOT EAT" packets of silica gel are the same material.

I started experimenting with this stuff as I've sent several large boxes of smokes over to the troops in Iraq, and have needed to balance large quantities of donated sticks (in various levels of moisture control), plus have an economical way of keeping them balanced while shipping, plus provide the troops with a way of keeping their sticks moist in sometimes desert environments.

Basically, un-scented pure silica crystals kitty litter is the same material as your expensive "calibrated" humidification beads. There's no "calibration" other than the amount of moisture in them. The only differences is the particle size ("beads" are spherical, crystals are irregular)

There may be a psychological issue to get over the idea of using kitty litter in your humidor, and there are those who will not have the interest to "fiddle" and can afford to pay Prime Tenderloin prices for silica sand, but if you're wanting to get serious about humidity control here's some basics.

Basic rules:
1. Go to PetSmart or order online for Exquisicat Crystals Cat Litter
2. You can't have "too many" crystals in your storage container. The more silica media, the less variance you'll have.
3. Find or purchase clean nylon stockings or pantyhose. Pour the crystals into the hose and knot the ends, making a loose "sausage" about 1-2" in diameter and 6-12" long. Squeeze it around to distribute the crystals evenly along the length.
4. Calculate about 70% of its length, and grab it there. Saturate the big end in distilled water for about five-ten seconds. Drain it. Put the whole "sausage" into a ziplock bag for a few hours with a spare hygrometer. You'll probably find it runs between 65-75%.

With a little experimentation on your method, you can quickly and easily create pretty large humidification devices with surprisingly accurate readings.

Now take that $30 and go buy yourself a nice 24oz piece of prime tenderloin for you and your honey.

Actually I think you are wrong here.

Generally, in achiving stuff you want NO MOISTURE and therefore the "Do Not Eat" silica beads are the correct choice. These beads suck out all moisture and keep your stuff dry.

Now the "beads" that we are all talking about here ARE DIFFERENT. These beads regulate humidity and that is the difference. They will absorb humidity until a certain level is reached and then stop. If the humidity drops lower that a certain point they will release humidity. There is a term for this that I cannot recall.

I am sure Viper or another more experienced memeber here can explain it better . . . . or tell me I am wrong

 

[NorCalCigarLover]

Actually, it does work. I've been using the kitty litter for a couple of years now with great success in my fridgador and recently in my cooler. I simply charged them myself and they maintain a perfect RH that I have selected.

 

[mdutch]

Actually I think you are wrong here.

Generally, in achiving stuff you want NO MOISTURE and therefore the "Do Not Eat" silica beads are the correct choice. These beads suck out all moisture and keep your stuff dry.

Now the "beads" that we are all talking about here ARE DIFFERENT. These beads regulate humidity and that is the difference. They will absorb humidity until a certain level is reached and then stop. If the humidity drops lower that a certain point they will release humidity. There is a term for this that I cannot recall.

I am sure Viper or another more experienced memeber here can explain it better . . . . or tell me I am wrong

The difference between the "drying" silica gel and the "humidifying" silica gel is its moisture content. If you're trying to keep the moisture out, you use "anhydrous" (without water) silica gel (which is how the kitty litter comes -- it wouldn't soak up much liquid if it weren't dry! ??? ) If you charge the gel with water, it acts as a sponge.
[edit]

Okay, I found the thread I was looking for. Here's complete instructions on how too condition your $8/lb kitty silica gel to 65 or 70% "humidor quality beads".

[/edit]
For the record, I'm not hear to evangelize about silica gel, and realize there are some folks who feel better having paid a lot for what they have. As I said, I started out using the "museum-quality" beads, but after experimenting, I'd much rather spend my money on cigars instead of "special" silica gel!

 

[NullSmurf]

I'll call your bet, mdutch. By the way, post an introduction here and tell us about yourself.

I can't find the process for manufacture of the programmed beads, so I can only guess that, while the beads are primarily silica, they are not 100% silica. I do know it is possible through processing (compressing) and the introduction of a binder to restrict how much the silica is permitted to expand. I'm guessing that is how they're achieving the programmed saturation point. For 70%, squash them into pellets. For 65%, squash harder.

I read the procedure for programming the 100% silica. The procedure calls for introducing moisture in a closed container and using PG solution and a hygrometer. Whats the point? Yes, you're getting water infused silica that will then humidify, but you haven't created "programmed" beads. PG is the regulator. You recharge yours by dipping some percentage of the tube, then let them equalize with the dry ones. You might as well use the florist's foam. These are not programmed beads. They work by use of programmed habbits. It works for you and thats good. However, you could do the same with florist's foam.

I did test the 65% and the 70% beads in a closed container. They DO work as advertised. My beads maintain RH at 65% until they start to run out of water. To recharge, I literally soak them in distilled water, drip dry, then put them back in the humi. I am curious and do intend to test the kittly litter you propose. I'll post my results, with and without PG.

 

[mdutch]

I'll call your bet, mdutch. By the way, post an introduction here and tell us about yourself.

Intro posted, thanks for the heads up.
As I said above, I'm not here to evangelize about silica, just to spread the "good news" about kitty litter as a low-cost and very efficient replacement for a grossly overpriced commodity. Like any hobby, the cost of paraphernalia can overshadow the actual enjoyment of the hobby. If you find you need large quantities of beads for several storage locations, this is an effective way to do it.

I'm looking forward to your results. As stated, I'm not claiming this Exquisicat is BETTER than the museum beads, but I will say that based on my humble opinion and very limited experience with three coolers and two humidors, they're 98% as good in stability, and cost 98% LESS. I haven't followed the thread's "conditioning" instructions, I just wet 2/3 cup of beads, drained them, and mixed them with 1/3 cup of dry beads. In about an hour I had just under 70% humidity in my container. So I figure, wow, what's the big deal?

 

[NullSmurf]

I'll call your bet, mdutch. By the way, post an introduction here and tell us about yourself.

Intro posted, thanks for the heads up.
As I said above, I'm not here to evangelize about silica, just to spread the "good news" about kitty litter as a low-cost and very efficient replacement for a grossly overpriced commodity. Like any hobby, the cost of paraphernalia can overshadow the actual enjoyment of the hobby. If you find you need large quantities of beads for several storage locations, this is an effective way to do it.

I'm looking forward to your results. As stated, I'm not claiming this Exquisicat is BETTER than the museum beads, but I will say that based on my humble opinion and very limited experience with three coolers and two humidors, they're 98% as good in stability, and cost 98% LESS. I haven't followed the thread's "conditioning" instructions, I just wet 2/3 cup of beads, drained them, and mixed them with 1/3 cup of dry beads. In about an hour I had just under 70% humidity in my container. So I figure, wow, what's the big deal?

I don't have a problem with that. My only point is that these are NOT the same as the beads. You have chosen to do the moisture management manually. Viper/Humidipuck beads are self regulating.