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I'm glad I knew better

The Black Cloud said:
I'm looking for an update on this as well. The images are blocked here at work but when I checked this thread at home I saw the moldy cigar that I assume started the whole fiasco. If that is so, anyone trying to tell CP that is plume would probably have better odds playing the lottery. It only took me half a second to decide it was mold.

As an aside, I pulled a cheap cigar out of the humi at my normal B&M because it had beetle holes and crap within the wrapper. When I alerted the staff I was met with gracious thank yous and appreciation for looking out for them. Denverguy or whatever his name is (or was) could probably learn a lesson or two about "accountability". But something tells me we won't be hearing much from him anymore.
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Those weren't beetle holes. They were holes from where the plume's roots were pulled out by someone who didn't know better. Now the plume can never grow back.
 
StogieSteve said:
I love this board. I learn something new every day.
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x2. This has been a truly interesting thread to follow. It goes to show that not everyone in the business of cigars holds the same high standards as one would hope.
 
Ok, I met with the board and had a discussion about the incident, mostly the professor. We all decided he was wrong regardless of his stance with the B & M. I'm waiting for the email from the board letting me know the next step. I'll try to meet up with the owner of the B & M soon, haven't been able to get down there with moving my crap and finals.

WKOTI
 
My local shop has a copy of the latest European Cigar Cult Journal, and they have a large article with great pictures of the mold vs. plume debate. They claimed the mold is plume! They say under magnification
that plume can have stalks on it! There are pictures of what to my eye is obviously mold, and claim it's plume. The only thing I personally have ever seen that even looks like what might be plume, is the slightly "sparkliness"
on a few older OpusX.
 
A perfect example of not believing EVERYTHING you read. ECCJ is not perfect, but a decent read nontheless.
 
Update -

I received an email from the chef last yesterday telling me we need to talk ASAP, I showed up today, but he was no where to be found. I'll get together with him and see where this goes.

Sorry I've been packing and doing finals, busy 7 days left. Thanks everyone for looking out!

WKOTI
 
It sounds like you might have the board on your side. That could prove to be a good thing.

Hope all goes well with finals, and this gets resolved soon! I wonder if the chef is now seeing the error of his ways, with the help from the board...
 
I'm going to go out on a limb here, at what I know to be the risk of getting railed on by most, but here goes anyway. I'm a former shop owner, and in reading this chain, I can see that there are points which need to be viewed as reliable from both sides of this issue. And to cut the comment off before I even get it, no I'm not the owner of Capitol Cigars nor do I have the authority to speak on his behalf. I do, however know and respect Patrick who works there, and who tried to come up with some defense for the shop and for the situation. There is one thing I don't think I read from Patrick, and maybe I glossed over it (so if it was stated, I apologize for the redundancy), but Patrick is not a full time employee; his career is as an independent rep for some of the great boutique brands. I know first hand that he is very well respected for his knowledge in the cigar community, not only by B&M owners, but by the very "big names" he reps. I don't think I'm speaking out of place when I tell you his lines include (among others) Tatuaje, J. Fuego, Xikar, and Casa Magna, just to name a very few. My point is that I know he's not just sticking up for the shop. I can also tell you that much of what he said regarding the "facts" as they were initially reported are correct. The shop doesn't have a churchill Rocky Patel. Also, the Rocky Patel section is literally in the middle of the wall, where the two humidification devices are on the corners, and not directly under (or over - what ever was said).

The shop did have one box about 9 months ago that had a mold problem. The problem was caused by water dripping directly into the box of cigars from the humidifier. The box was removed and thrown away (I know this to be true because it was a box of La Flor Dominicana DL Lanceros that I desperately wanted for myself), and the humidifier was fixed. I helped the staff go through the humidor to make sure there were no other contaminated boxes, and to the best that we could all tell, there weren't any.

Most of the posts here have been "Brothers" piling on Patrick. Patrick is a brother of the leaf. I am a brother of the leaf. We are both extremely knowledgeable about cigars, and I'm not saying that from the "how great are we" standpoint. I say that from the "it's our job to be experts." It's in Patrick's best interest to support not only the local B&Ms but the customers as well. And at least from my standpoint, he's always done just that. Trust me when I say that since he put his name out there, as a part time employee of Capitol, everyone in Colorado (shop owners, and those who are close to the business, both customers and manufacturers) will know exactly WHO he is, and the kind of character he shows in his daily life.

I'm not saying that the original poster didn't have a legitimate gripe. Trust me, I've had my share of careless and uncaring employees. I'd venture to say that unless any of you out there are business owners, you'll never know what it's like to try to keep your employees looking out for your interests. I'll bet you don't give the same care to your boss's company as he or she gives it. What I am saying is that both sides were partially wrong here. He took an issue with a bad experience, and instead of honestly and reasonably facing the owner in a tactful manner, he decided to go online to try to destroy a legitimate shop. And the original employee was definitely in the wrong too! He didn't make the customer feel welcome, and likely belittled him. My point here is that there are always three sides to a story: what Person A says, what Person B says, and the truth.

I'm hoping that some of you give serious thought to what I've written here. A mistake was made by the shop's employee, and he should be dealt with. But a travesty has been made by most of you by hearing only what you want to hear, and instantly passing judgment. I encourage any of you to stop in to this shop, and you'll see that conditions are great in the humidor, the lounge is comfortable, and the staff is friendly. Frankly, with only a couple of exceptions (which I will not mention here), I would say the same about almost all of the shops in the Denver area.

We all need to support our local shop. There are plenty out there that exhibit day in and day out, a serious lack of customer service. Those are the shops that deserve to go out of business. Most of the shops out there are fantastic, but as with any business (or frankly, with any of our lives) sometimes they just have a bad day. Give them a second chance. We need to support the B&Ms because if they go away, the already battered door to eliminating smoking everywhere will be kicked so far open, our heads will spin! Trust me.

Happy smoking, and have a great weekend!
 
cigar dweeb, I agree with you on several points of your posts, mostly about supporting your locals and how there are three sides to every story, but given the photo taken by WKOTI, what would you classify the substance on the cigar as? Mold or plume?

I honestly can't derive if this thread is more about the mold vs. plume issue, or the treatment of the employee to a customer and subsequent treatment of said customer by his college professor. It has become slightly convoluted, but in the end, I just want to hear somebody call the foreign substance on the cigar for what it truly is.
 
What the hell does this long winded post have to do with Patrick trying to pass off mold as plume. It was mold. Got that young fella, mold, not plume. I've been around for a long time and this crap has got to end. There's no debate here. The representatives of that shop were trying to pass off mold as plume. They were dishonest and disreputable and not deserving of a BOTL's business. There is no defense. The fact that he's knowledgeable about cigars makes it worse.


Doc.
 
cigar dweeb said:
Most of the posts here have been "Brothers" piling on Patrick.
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And for good reason. From what we are told his behavior was rude and uncalled for. I don't give two craps about a person's credentials if they are rude and disrespectful.


cigar dweeb said:
We are both extremely knowledgeable about cigars, and I'm not saying that from the "how great are we" standpoint. I say that from the "it's our job to be experts."
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You can search around CP for the many stories of shops, clerks, and owners giving the same song and dance about mold/plume. I'm sure they'd all say the same thing.


cigar dweeb said:
He took an issue with a bad experience, and instead of honestly and reasonably facing the owner in a tactful manner, he decided to go online to try to destroy a legitimate shop.
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Actually he didn't out Capital Cigars until later. From what we were told wkoti approached the staff in a reasonable manner. Not sure what else he was supposed to do.


cigar dweeb said:
He didn't make the customer feel welcome, and likely belittled him.
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And, speaking for myself, that would be enough for me to never do business with said shop again. I don't care about the person's credentials, if they are rude or dismissive I've already tuned them out.


cigar dweeb said:
My point here is that there are always three sides to a story: what Person A says, what Person B says, and the truth.
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Very true.


cigar dweeb said:
There are plenty out there that exhibit day in and day out, a serious lack of customer service.
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Yeah, that's what we're trying to get to the bottom of.


cigar dweeb said:
Give them a second chance. We need to support the B&Ms because if they go away, the already battered door to eliminating smoking everywhere will be kicked so far open, our heads will spin!
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I don't give second chances to businesses where I've been treated poorly and perhaps lied to. There are other shops around and I'll spend my money and support them instead.
 
souldog said:
cigar dweeb, I agree with you on several points of your posts, mostly about supporting your locals and how there are three sides to every story, but given the photo taken by WKOTI, what would you classify the substance on the cigar as? Mold or plume?

I honestly can't derive if this thread is more about the mold vs. plume issue, or the treatment of the employee to a customer and subsequent treatment of said customer by his college professor. It has become slightly convoluted, but in the end, I just want to hear somebody call the foreign substance on the cigar for what it truly is.
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Devil Doc said:
What the hell does this long winded post have to do with Patrick trying to pass off mold as plume. It was mold. Got that young fella, mold, not plume. I've been around for a long time and this crap has got to end. There's no debate here. The representatives of that shop were trying to pass off mold as plume. They were dishonest and disreputable and not deserving of a BOTL's business. There is no defense. The fact that he's knowledgeable about cigars makes it worse.


Doc.
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As is stated above, what does any of that have to do with Patrick trying to pass mold off as plume? It seems that he and you both have skirted that issue entirely (him doing so only after being called out on it). As Doc says above, the fact that he's knowledgeable about cigars only makes it worse. What the hell business does anyone have working in the cigar industry, if they don't know what the hell mold looks like? How can you say that something that looks just like the shit that grows on bread is not mold?

Also, the piling on is not for sport, or just to be mean, it has a reason behind it. If Patrick is insulted or upset by the responses here, why is he not replying in his own defense? Personally, if someone has or had a dispute with my business about either the quality of my product, quality of my customer service, or both, I would do everything in my power to fix the problem(s). I DO speak from experience about this, as I ran my father's food establishment for seven years. Ask anyone who is in that industry what it is like. You think the cigar industry is tough? Food is much, much more difficult.
 
I've been in some form of customer service pretty much since I was 18, so I will let Patrick and Cigar Dweeb on my secret formula for upset customers:
1. Listen.
2. Apologize. Regardless of whether it's for bad service or subpar merchandise, or whether it's even deserved or not.
3. Offer some form of restitution or amends (discount, gift, etc.), even if it's small. Most people just want the gesture of good faith.
4. Ask them if you can do anything else for them on this visit, and give them your name so you can make sure they're well taken care of on future visits. Thank them for their patience and patronage.
5. Move on.
Repeat if necessary. You don't win debates with customers. You only lose business. The repeat business you will gain will far exceed the costs of this method. Give it a try.
Edit to fix weirdness caused by my Iphone.
 
I especially like how both guys who came here to do damage control deflected by hinting that the photos were faked somehow. Even though as pointed out, the OP was not intending to call out the store, but somehow now he made this all up. The cigars were never in the store, and/or if they were in the store the two times he visited and pointed them out to the staff and was treated like shit for being young and obviously better informed than staff, they certainly weren't anywhere near the humidifier.
Again Gavin is dead on right, I deal with customer service issues almost daily and this method of crisis management is an unprofessional approach. Gavins checklist would go a long way toward saving the stores credibility. Seem to be a telling sign of just what is happening at that store. Assuming of course that both store posters are who they say they are.


PJ
 
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