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I'm glad I knew better

Salukis63 said:
Patrick- a couple things. I think the real topic here was taking care of BOTL at your shop where from the interaction he described with a staff member was less than palatable. The mold/plume debate will rage for as long as people smoke cigars and I think it would be wise to let that portion drop. I think it is admirable that you came in and are trying to make this right with Wkoti.

Grateful1 makes a great point below. I'd hate to see this flame out and affect someones job prospects.

I hope you'll stick around after this and see what CP is truly all about. I'm amazed every day by the quality and hospitality of our membership.

Cheers,

R
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In my opinion this is the real issue at hand. The mold/plume debate can go on, but really what it boils down to is customer service. An employee at your establishment was incredibly rude to a paying customer. In the customer service industry, that is intolerable. It is alright to present a dissenting opinion, but it should have been brought to the attention of the owner or at least checked. Maybe wiping off one of the sticks to see if it was actually mold. Looking at the box to see if some was growing on the sides... Instead, the manager said GTFO and dismissed him like a fly. If that's how you treat your customers, then I would never do business with you.
 
0000ywbc.jpg

PLUME DOES NOT WORK THAT WAY
 
denvercigarguy said:
Nonetheless, I find it ironic and tragic that the very thing that started this whole debacle, namely someone who has more experience with cigars demeaning someone they perceive as being less knowledgeable, is exactly what I am getting in response to my posting. We are all people who love cigars. If we can't get along, or at the least be respectful of and civil with each other, how can we expect to withstand the onslaught of the anti-tobacco zealots who are trying to take cigars away from us?
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To answer this specifically. We are not your paying customers. Wkoti is (or was, or is in limbo). We don't owe you anything. There may be a certain level of respect you will get from the members here, but I hope you don't expect us to believe what you say as the gospel. If you're being dishonest, or just uneducated about the issue, it will come out sooner or later. There are many many members here that have been smoking, selling, collecting, studying cigars (and other forms of tobacco)for longer than I've been alive. There's an embarrasement of knowledge on CP and I give thier opinions much more creedance than somebody I don't know.


Now, pardon my newb-ness. I just felt like speaking on this one comment.


edit: Come to think of it, none of us owe you anything. As a business your customers are your top priority. Without them (read: us) you have no business. What makes a B&M successful is superior customer service as well as a great product.
 
It's too bad that Vitolas is down. We could just link to the mold/plume page and let this die.
 
I have to wonder how many folks supplying cigar shops throw a line of crap to the owners when moldy cigars show up in a shipment. Is it possible that this deception is also propagated by folks who don;t want to deal with larger scale returns?

Let it be clear that I am not making any accusations, but it is something I am wondering.
 
Salukis63 said:
denvercigarguy said:
If you guys have been smoking and collecting cigars for so long, then you should all know there are NO ABSOLUTES when it comes to cigars. This means ALL of us have different experiences when it comes to storing cigars. What makes the plume vs. mold debate so volatile is that there are so many variables about what plume is, what causes it, and how long it takes to form. It would be wise to consider that before you post a disparaging comment on someone's personal experience. All I can say is, I have seen plume form on cigars in a matter of several weeks (or we could use 2 or 3 months if that is more amenable to you guys). To be more specific, that plume has re-formed on the cigars after the initial formation had been wiped off. (And before you guys all comment on that, we wipe it off for this exact reason: that it is commonly mistaken as mold). As I also said in my posting, I have opened a new box of cigars just shipped from the manufacturer that have had plume on them. These are all personal experiences, so say what you want; I know what I know.
Nonetheless, I find it ironic and tragic that the very thing that started this whole debacle, namely someone who has more experience with cigars demeaning someone they perceive as being less knowledgeable, is exactly what I am getting in response to my posting. We are all people who love cigars. If we can't get along, or at the least be respectful of and civil with each other, how can we expect to withstand the onslaught of the anti-tobacco zealots who are trying to take cigars away from us?
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Patrick- a couple things. I think the real topic here was taking care of BOTL at your shop where from the interaction he described with a staff member was less than palatable. The mold/plume debate will rage for as long as people smoke cigars and I think it would be wise to let that portion drop. I think it is admirable that you came in and are trying to make this right with Wkoti.

Grateful1 makes a great point below. I'd hate to see this flame out and affect someones job prospects.

I hope you'll stick around after this and see what CP is truly all about. I'm amazed every day by the quality and hospitality of our membership.

Cheers,

R
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Yes, go ahead and post an introduction, and tell us a little bit about yourself. This forum is all about community and not commerce. So if you are here for anything more than diffusing a customer service debacle, then read the newbie guide and stick around! ;)

I for one, am willing to give you the benefit of a doubt, for now!

PJ
 
Some of you young fellas are pretty naive. The guy came here to put out a fire. Unfortunately his bucket was filled with gasoline. It would really surprise me if we ever heard from him again. Besides, he's just an unscrupulous puppet looking to impress his boss. Didn't work, though, did it?

Doc.
 
Devil Doc said:
Some of you young fellas are pretty naive. The guy came here to put out a fire. Unfortunately his bucket was filled with gasoline. It would really surprise me if we ever heard from him again. Besides, he's just an unscrupulous puppet looking to impress his boss. Didn't work, though, did it?

Doc.
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Doc you are right of course, I was attempting to take the high road here! ;)

PJ
 
denvercigarguy said:
If you guys have been smoking and collecting cigars for so long, then you should all know there are NO ABSOLUTES when it comes to cigars. This means ALL of us have different experiences when it comes to storing cigars. What makes the plume vs. mold debate so volatile is that there are so many variables about what plume is, what causes it, and how long it takes to form. It would be wise to consider that before you post a disparaging comment on someone's personal experience. All I can say is, I have seen plume form on cigars in a matter of several weeks (or we could use 2 or 3 months if that is more amenable to you guys). To be more specific, that plume has re-formed on the cigars after the initial formation had been wiped off. (And before you guys all comment on that, we wipe it off for this exact reason: that it is commonly mistaken as mold). As I also said in my posting, I have opened a new box of cigars just shipped from the manufacturer that have had plume on them. These are all personal experiences, so say what you want; I know what I know.
Nonetheless, I find it ironic and tragic that the very thing that started this whole debacle, namely someone who has more experience with cigars demeaning someone they perceive as being less knowledgeable, is exactly what I am getting in response to my posting. We are all people who love cigars. If we can't get along, or at the least be respectful of and civil with each other, how can we expect to withstand the onslaught of the anti-tobacco zealots who are trying to take cigars away from us?
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I'm sorry, and please correct me if I am wrong, but this cant be common practice with plume. Wouldn't it be wise for a store to keep the plume on the sticks especially if it is a desirable phenomenon? Like I said, please correct me If I am wrong.
 
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Patrick, do you want a slice? You could just brush off the plume.
 
NASTY said:
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Patrick, do you want a slice? You could just brush off the plume.
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That picture make me angry :angry: You have no idea how many experiments have been FUBARed with that contaminant. :D
 
I don't remember where I downloaded these from, they may be Moki's pics.

Plume

bloom.gif


plume.gif


See how it is uniform over the cigar, not splotchy. The crystals are visible really only due to the flash from the camera. They are like very fine salt crystals.

Mold

cigar-mold.gif


Not uniform, present in splotches. The furry blemishes are quite visible in any lighting. White mold is usually not as damaging as green mold, but I'd not smoke a cigar that had either even if I could wipe off the white stuff. White mold is frequently found in fresh boxes that were packed a little to wet from the factory. It is certainly NOT plume.

What does this (wkoti's picture) look like to you:


mms_picture.jpg


To the real issue:

If this were my B&M I'd tell them I was never going to spend another dime in their store and tell them exactly why. As for the professor, I'd tell him he's welcome to smoke all the moldy cigars he'd like to smoke and that I would kindly take my leave of the club that I started because my input was obviously not desired. I'd also let every member of the club know what was going on and that while it may not be a formally recognized club, there would be a meeting at an alternative location on a different night that all were welcome to attend. I would then make every effort to make that meeting as kick ass as possible so they want to come back.

I speak from experience (and this may be too late), and challenging professors may not be healthy for one's education or prospects in the future job market. It's a shitty thing, but they have power and he sounds like the type that will abuse it.

Just my $.02 and I realize it's not as timely as it could have been, but it's been a looong week.
 
LilBastage said:
I guess I'll just not contribute, then.
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I think he was commenting on Gary's post not yours.

Go out on the deck, fill your glass, fill your bowl and play hide and seek with the mosquitoes for an hour or two.
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