Hypothetical Cuba Vacations

[cabaiguan juan]

So, what I'm hypothetically gathering from this hypothetical thread on hypothetically visiting Cuba, you can hypothetically get in trouble or hypothetically not get in trouble based on a hypothetical Cuban passport stamp that may hypothetically be put on your hypothetical passport..... hypothetically.

Most certainly maybe.

 

[Gonz]

You know this got me to thinking. I think I'll start a thread all about breaking the law (and instructions on how to do it), bragging about doing so, and post it on a public forum to discuss and hopefully get the forum owner in trouble in the process.

How is this any different than posting a thread discussing sources or ways to circumvent customs?

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

 

[bfisher88]

You know this got me to thinking. I think I'll start a thread all about breaking the law (and instructions on how to do it), bragging about doing so, and post it on a public forum to discuss and hopefully get the forum owner in trouble in the process.

How is this any different than posting a thread discussing sources or ways to circumvent customs?

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

Exactly what I was inferring, but no one quite got it. Well said.

 

[Mike33]

You know this got me to thinking. I think I'll start a thread all about breaking the law (and instructions on how to do it), bragging about doing so, and post it on a public forum to discuss and hopefully get the forum owner in trouble in the process.

How is this any different than posting a thread discussing sources or ways to circumvent customs?

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

Exactly what I was inferring, but no one quite got it. Well said.

You and me both....

 

[dagoR6]

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

Please cite your source on the statement that it is illegal for Americans to go to Cuba

 

[uptown_isy]

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

Please cite your source on the statement that it is illegal for Americans to go to Cuba

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

 

[tone-ny]

Just a point of reference to all. American citizens can and do go to Cuba legally, for many reasons, that include humanitarian relief, commerece and cultural visits. I don't know about any of the illegal ways, but my local college radio station is offering a trip to Cuba on humanitarian/cultural grounds the price is $3,990 per person. Here is the link, WXPN.

 

[verhoevc]

Oh lighten up boys. It's just a little curiosity. All hypothetical. I have no intention of going to Cuba. I was just curious about it.
Chris

 

[khari]

Just a point of reference to all. American citizens can and do go to Cuba legally, for many reasons, that include humanitarian relief, commerece and cultural visits. I don't know about any of the illegal ways, but my local college radio station is offering a trip to Cuba on humanitarian/cultural grounds the price is $3,990 per person. Here is the link, WXPN.

Yep. I even know someone who did a study abroad in Cuba through NYU.

 

[dagoR6]

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

Please cite your source on the statement that it is illegal for Americans to go to Cuba

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

Exactly my point, take a look through that and look for the word "illegal" you'll find it next to several notes about not pissing off the cuban government by illegally exporting their escapee's. Main travel page for the US government and not one mention of being illegal.... maybe 'cause it's not?!? :whistling:

 

[dagoR6]

Just a point of reference to all. American citizens can and do go to Cuba legally, for many reasons, that include humanitarian relief, commerece and cultural visits. I don't know about any of the illegal ways, but my local college radio station is offering a trip to Cuba on humanitarian/cultural grounds the price is $3,990 per person. Here is the link, WXPN.

Very true, I'm not sure where the urban myth started on these kinds of boards that it was "illegal" to go to cuba. Maybe people trying to keep others from going? ???

It's very legal to go to Cuba, you cannot spend money there without a general license or a specific license. OFAC hints strongly that you cannot spend money to go there, but it's verbal judo because you are in fact free to do so as long as you pay only a foreign carrier (and not a travel agent that simply hands a cuban carrier money).

Specific licenses accompany many things, and all the travel programs use them. When you get one OFAC gives you a letter telling you, I s*** you not, that you can actually bring some small amount of cigars home. The general license requires no application and makes it okay as long as you're going to a conference paid for by a non-american or any sort of work function. you are also free to go as the guest of someone else, provided they pay your way entirely. Typicall this means travelling with a european (canadian will do but counts only as 1/2european) as their guest or visiting a cuban family.

All this crazy talk of illegality is just that, crazy. There are many completely legal ways to go to Cuba with *NO* subterfuge at all. I am going for the first time in two months to the Habanos festival, it is COMPLETELY LEGAL. No pass through billing, nothing.

I encourage everyone who enjoys cuban cigars to visit there as soon as possible (before any embargo release), just rememeber, the goal of the embargo is to keep your spending to a minimum. Most people don't know this but the Cuban currency has no value, it is printed at will by the central planners. The CUC we spend is obtained and linked to "hard currency" Which means every penny you spend there goes straight to the government, this is what OFAC is trying to stop.

It works like this, you spend 100 dollars and convert it to 130 Tourist-CUC's. The government gets the 100 dollars. You pay the local 100 Tourist-CUC's, he puts it in his bank account and gets credited 100 Cuban-CUC's, which have no value but still allow them to purchase things there. Get it? Every dollar goes to the Cuban government and they use a few pennies of it to print local currency and the rest to buy things on the open International market. Used to be the same way in the USSR.

 

[drew_goring]

US citizens traveling to Cuba is illegal, and until that changes perhaps this is a topic best not discussed here.

Please cite your source on the statement that it is illegal for Americans to go to Cuba

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_1097.html

Exactly my point, take a look through that and look for the word "illegal" you'll find it next to several notes about not pissing off the cuban government by illegally exporting their escapee's. Main travel page for the US government and not one mention of being illegal.... maybe 'cause it's not?!? :whistling:

I believe (may be wrong though) that it is illegal for American citizens to spend any money in Cuba or on Cuban goods. Something to do with the Trading With The Enemy Act. Because you have to pay a 20CUC departure tax, you are then in violation of this act.

edit: unless of course you have a permit.

 

[Carbonless]

Dago, it sounds like you've done some looking into this, but be careful...the law is always open to interpretation and, as an attorney, I can tell you that one person's viewpoint about what the law says isn't always the way that the government sees it. Hopefully you wont encounter any issues. That Habanos festival definitely looks like a good time :thumbs:

 

[Mike33]

Just a point of reference to all. American citizens can and do go to Cuba legally, for many reasons, that include humanitarian relief, commerece and cultural visits. I don't know about any of the illegal ways, but my local college radio station is offering a trip to Cuba on humanitarian/cultural grounds the price is $3,990 per person. Here is the link, WXPN.

Very true, I'm not sure where the urban myth started on these kinds of boards that it was "illegal" to go to cuba. Maybe people trying to keep others from going? ???

It's very legal to go to Cuba, you cannot spend money there without a general license or a specific license. OFAC hints strongly that you cannot spend money to go there, but it's verbal judo because you are in fact free to do so as long as you pay only a foreign carrier (and not a travel agent that simply hands a cuban carrier money).

Specific licenses accompany many things, and all the travel programs use them. When you get one OFAC gives you a letter telling you, I s*** you not, that you can actually bring some small amount of cigars home. The general license requires no application and makes it okay as long as you're going to a conference paid for by a non-american or any sort of work function. you are also free to go as the guest of someone else, provided they pay your way entirely. Typicall this means travelling with a european (canadian will do but counts only as 1/2european) as their guest or visiting a cuban family.

All this crazy talk of illegality is just that, crazy. There are many completely legal ways to go to Cuba with *NO* subterfuge at all. I am going for the first time in two months to the Habanos festival, it is COMPLETELY LEGAL. No pass through billing, nothing.

I encourage everyone who enjoys cuban cigars to visit there as soon as possible (before any embargo release), just rememeber, the goal of the embargo is to keep your spending to a minimum. Most people don't know this but the Cuban currency has no value, it is printed at will by the central planners. The CUC we spend is obtained and linked to "hard currency" Which means every penny you spend there goes straight to the government, this is what OFAC is trying to stop.

It works like this, you spend 100 dollars and convert it to 130 Tourist-CUC's. The government gets the 100 dollars. You pay the local 100 Tourist-CUC's, he puts it in his bank account and gets credited 100 Cuban-CUC's, which have no value but still allow them to purchase things there. Get it? Every dollar goes to the Cuban government and they use a few pennies of it to print local currency and the rest to buy things on the open International market. Used to be the same way in the USSR.

"Unless otherwise exempted or authorized, any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who engages in any travel-related transaction in Cuba violates the regulations." The bolded part is key, because you can enter and exit Cuba without breaking the law, BUT, if you pay any money at all in doing so (plane, boat, ect.), it is a violation without a license. It does not matter if the money goes to a foreign carrier or not, if you are a US citizen and spend money entering Cuba without a liscense, it is illegal.

So yeah, you can go to Cuba legally, but you need a license to do so. Unless, of course, you somehow can get to Cuba without paying any money...

 

[Bxcigrfan]

Just a point of reference to all. American citizens can and do go to Cuba legally, for many reasons, that include humanitarian relief, commerece and cultural visits. I don't know about any of the illegal ways, but my local college radio station is offering a trip to Cuba on humanitarian/cultural grounds the price is $3,990 per person. Here is the link, WXPN.

Very true, I'm not sure where the urban myth started on these kinds of boards that it was "illegal" to go to cuba. Maybe people trying to keep others from going? ???

It's very legal to go to Cuba, you cannot spend money there without a general license or a specific license. OFAC hints strongly that you cannot spend money to go there, but it's verbal judo because you are in fact free to do so as long as you pay only a foreign carrier (and not a travel agent that simply hands a cuban carrier money).

Specific licenses accompany many things, and all the travel programs use them. When you get one OFAC gives you a letter telling you, I s*** you not, that you can actually bring some small amount of cigars home. The general license requires no application and makes it okay as long as you're going to a conference paid for by a non-american or any sort of work function. you are also free to go as the guest of someone else, provided they pay your way entirely. Typicall this means travelling with a european (canadian will do but counts only as 1/2european) as their guest or visiting a cuban family.

All this crazy talk of illegality is just that, crazy. There are many completely legal ways to go to Cuba with *NO* subterfuge at all. I am going for the first time in two months to the Habanos festival, it is COMPLETELY LEGAL. No pass through billing, nothing.

I encourage everyone who enjoys cuban cigars to visit there as soon as possible (before any embargo release), just rememeber, the goal of the embargo is to keep your spending to a minimum. Most people don't know this but the Cuban currency has no value, it is printed at will by the central planners. The CUC we spend is obtained and linked to "hard currency" Which means every penny you spend there goes straight to the government, this is what OFAC is trying to stop.

It works like this, you spend 100 dollars and convert it to 130 Tourist-CUC's. The government gets the 100 dollars. You pay the local 100 Tourist-CUC's, he puts it in his bank account and gets credited 100 Cuban-CUC's, which have no value but still allow them to purchase things there. Get it? Every dollar goes to the Cuban government and they use a few pennies of it to print local currency and the rest to buy things on the open International market. Used to be the same way in the USSR.

"Unless otherwise exempted or authorized, any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who engages in any travel-related transaction in Cuba violates the regulations." The bolded part is key, because you can enter and exit Cuba without breaking the law, BUT, if you pay any money at all in doing so (plane, boat, ect.), it is a violation without a license. It does not matter if the money goes to a foreign carrier or not, if you are a US citizen and spend money entering Cuba without a liscense, it is illegal.

So yeah, you can go to Cuba legally, but you need a license to do so. Unless, of course, you somehow can get to Cuba without paying any money...

so wait can a person in their own personal boat or a make shift boat paddles their way in the island or swims onto the island, they essentially have arrived their legally as long as they themselves spend not 1 penny while on the island - theoritically via that text

 

[Mike33]

Just a point of reference to all. American citizens can and do go to Cuba legally, for many reasons, that include humanitarian relief, commerece and cultural visits. I don't know about any of the illegal ways, but my local college radio station is offering a trip to Cuba on humanitarian/cultural grounds the price is $3,990 per person. Here is the link, WXPN.

Very true, I'm not sure where the urban myth started on these kinds of boards that it was "illegal" to go to cuba. Maybe people trying to keep others from going? ???

It's very legal to go to Cuba, you cannot spend money there without a general license or a specific license. OFAC hints strongly that you cannot spend money to go there, but it's verbal judo because you are in fact free to do so as long as you pay only a foreign carrier (and not a travel agent that simply hands a cuban carrier money).

Specific licenses accompany many things, and all the travel programs use them. When you get one OFAC gives you a letter telling you, I s*** you not, that you can actually bring some small amount of cigars home. The general license requires no application and makes it okay as long as you're going to a conference paid for by a non-american or any sort of work function. you are also free to go as the guest of someone else, provided they pay your way entirely. Typicall this means travelling with a european (canadian will do but counts only as 1/2european) as their guest or visiting a cuban family.

All this crazy talk of illegality is just that, crazy. There are many completely legal ways to go to Cuba with *NO* subterfuge at all. I am going for the first time in two months to the Habanos festival, it is COMPLETELY LEGAL. No pass through billing, nothing.

I encourage everyone who enjoys cuban cigars to visit there as soon as possible (before any embargo release), just rememeber, the goal of the embargo is to keep your spending to a minimum. Most people don't know this but the Cuban currency has no value, it is printed at will by the central planners. The CUC we spend is obtained and linked to "hard currency" Which means every penny you spend there goes straight to the government, this is what OFAC is trying to stop.

It works like this, you spend 100 dollars and convert it to 130 Tourist-CUC's. The government gets the 100 dollars. You pay the local 100 Tourist-CUC's, he puts it in his bank account and gets credited 100 Cuban-CUC's, which have no value but still allow them to purchase things there. Get it? Every dollar goes to the Cuban government and they use a few pennies of it to print local currency and the rest to buy things on the open International market. Used to be the same way in the USSR.

"Unless otherwise exempted or authorized, any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who engages in any travel-related transaction in Cuba violates the regulations." The bolded part is key, because you can enter and exit Cuba without breaking the law, BUT, if you pay any money at all in doing so (plane, boat, ect.), it is a violation without a license. It does not matter if the money goes to a foreign carrier or not, if you are a US citizen and spend money entering Cuba without a liscense, it is illegal.

So yeah, you can go to Cuba legally, but you need a license to do so. Unless, of course, you somehow can get to Cuba without paying any money...

so wait can a person in their own personal boat or a make shift boat paddles their way in the island or swims onto the island, they essentially have arrived their legally as long as they themselves spend not 1 penny while on the island - theoritically via that text

Techincally yeah, at least that's how I read it. However, you will probably violate Cuban law by doing so :laugh:

 

[dagoR6]

"Unless otherwise exempted or authorized, any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who engages in any travel-related transaction in Cuba violates the regulations." The bolded part is key, because you can enter and exit Cuba without breaking the law, BUT, if you pay any money at all in doing so (plane, boat, ect.), it is a violation without a license. It does not matter if the money goes to a foreign carrier or not, if you are a US citizen and spend money entering Cuba without a liscense, it is illegal.

So yeah, you can go to Cuba legally, but you need a license to do so. Unless, of course, you somehow can get to Cuba without paying any money...

There are many perfectly legitimate reasons to go to Cuba under the many provisions of general and specific licenses, I urge everyone to find whichever one fits you and pursue the appropriate channels. If you cannot find any reason to visit Cuba that fits within those licenses, then:

It is absolutely not allowed for Americans to engage in a travel-related transaction *IN* cuba. Initiating travel outside of Cuba is perfectly legal. This isn't a "loophole" designed to "Circumvent" the rules. The rules are based on the trading with the enemy act and are very specific, you are not to give any money to the cuban people, period. Going to Cuba and purchasing a plane ticket home is a direct financial transaction that is given to the Cuban government. Paying Taca airlines to fly you to and from Cuban does not hand that money to the cuban government and is perfectly legal.

The idea here is that you cannot give money to the cuban government, period. (without a license). People tend to believe you cannot pay Taca airlines because then you are clearly breaking the rule "you cannot go to Cuba," so the rule that you can't spend money to travel to cuba seems to follow naturally. In reality, you're free to go to Cuba, and the rule that you can't spend money in that country for anything, including travel, flows naturally. It's all basic trading with the enemy stuff, you cannot give them money without a permit, period.

The key here is get a license, extremely easy to do, or feel free to go at your will, just don't give any money to cubans. Any money spent there better be spent by a third party our of their own money.

 

[Mike33]

"Unless otherwise exempted or authorized, any person subject to U.S. jurisdiction who engages in any travel-related transaction in Cuba violates the regulations." The bolded part is key, because you can enter and exit Cuba without breaking the law, BUT, if you pay any money at all in doing so (plane, boat, ect.), it is a violation without a license. It does not matter if the money goes to a foreign carrier or not, if you are a US citizen and spend money entering Cuba without a liscense, it is illegal.

So yeah, you can go to Cuba legally, but you need a license to do so. Unless, of course, you somehow can get to Cuba without paying any money...

There are many perfectly legitimate reasons to go to Cuba under the many provisions of general and specific licenses, I urge everyone to find whichever one fits you and pursue the appropriate channels. If you cannot find any reason to visit Cuba that fits within those licenses, then:

It is absolutely not allowed for Americans to engage in a travel-related transaction *IN* cuba. Initiating travel outside of Cuba is perfectly legal. This isn't a "loophole" designed to "Circumvent" the rules. The rules are based on the trading with the enemy act and are very specific, you are not to give any money to the cuban people, period. Going to Cuba and purchasing a plane ticket home is a direct financial transaction that is given to the Cuban government. Paying Taca airlines to fly you to and from Cuban does not hand that money to the cuban government and is perfectly legal.

The idea here is that you cannot give money to the cuban government, period. (without a license). People tend to believe you cannot pay Taca airlines because then you are clearly breaking the rule "you cannot go to Cuba," so the rule that you can't spend money to travel to cuba seems to follow naturally. In reality, you're free to go to Cuba, and the rule that you can't spend money in that country for anything, including travel, flows naturally. It's all basic trading with the enemy stuff, you cannot give them money without a permit, period.

The key here is get a license, extremely easy to do, or feel free to go at your will, just don't give any money to cubans. Any money spent there better be spent by a third party our of their own money.

"The regulations require that persons subject to U.S. jurisdiction be licensed in order to engage in any travel-related transactions pursuant to travel to, from, and within Cuba. Transactions related to tourist travel are not licensable. This restriction includes tourist travel to Cuba from or through a third country such as Mexico or Canada."

For a US citizen, initiating travel outside of Cuba to go to Cuba without a license is absolutely NOT legal. It doesn't matter what airline or boat charter company you use, it is illegal. The text of the regulation is clear and unambigious and does not allow for travel without a license; unless of course you can do so without spending any money.

If we followed your reasoning about it being fine as long as the money went to a third party, then there would be no restriction on buying Cuban cigars from vendors in third countries. Your money paid to the air-carrier goes to Cuba the same way the money for cigars from a third country goes to Cuba. Your statements about unlicensed travel to Cuba being legal are just plain false. Now, I'll agree with you that it is very easy to obtain a license to go, even for purposes other than the stated exceptions. But the truth is that you need a license to travel to Cuba legally.

 

[Gonz]

Hey dago, are you a troll or do you just enjoy blatantly spewing forth false information. Unless you are an attorney for the government I don't think you ought to be telling everyone on the board what you think/believe is legal.

So let me get this strait. You're going to go to Cuba but not spend a single penny with a street vendor, at a cafe, on a taxi or anything else right?

 

[dagoR6]

Hey dago, are you a troll or do you just enjoy blatantly spewing forth false information. Unless you are an attorney for the government I don't think you ought to be telling everyone on the board what you think/believe is legal.

So let me get this strait. You're going to go to Cuba but not spend a single penny with a street vendor, at a cafe, on a taxi or anything else right?

I'll say whatever I feel like saying, I'm not an attorney, i'm not citing any legal codes. Anything anyone says is their opinion, I didn't flame anyone and simply urged everyone to find a licensable and official reason to go. We're in a forum dedicated to smoking Cuban cigars, figure out where they're from.

I haven't seen the latest regulatory tidbit posted above and when bored I'll dig up the legal code and see what happens.

It is absolutely legal to purchase Cuban cigars through an intermediate, it's not legal to import them without properly declaring them, if someone thinks I'm wrong then post up so we can all remember to never mention one when smoking overseas.

I'm going on a license and allowed to spend money and declare my expenditures, everyone should get a license, period.

I do not personally believe it is in anyway illegal to travel to Cuba. Mainly working in a company where half of the employees are Canadian and UK citizens, we are ITAR controlled and 10% of our company has secret clearances. I see these people travel to Cuba occasionally and leave the dollars at home, euros being the best exchange currency anyway. The Brits pick up the tab, the Americans fully declare the trip on return and point at their Brit coworkers and no problems so far, OFAC even has a special form for detailing your Cuba non licensed trip where, as I understand it, should any doubts arise your companions produce their receipts for you, again YMMV and individual customs agents may take their own opinions to your case.

This is an open forum where everyone is free to post their opinion and others may read it and form their own. I lurked for a long time and people said "post more" so I'm lending my thoughts more. feel free to lend yours and stop questioning mine.