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HCM Beads vs. Heartfelt

Thanks for that link CigarAl.... I was reading a post by the inventor of HCM beads and saw this little statement by the inventor...

"The beads that most everyone uses are made of silica gel (the same as my HCS beads)." And he goes further to say that the only difference between his silica beads and others are the pores.....


I would like to see a response by the new owner as to this statement by the inventor. Not trying to be argumentative, just would like to see an explanation as to the statements given earlier




Edited to try to make more sense...
 
Clay itself is made of various silicates, so your compound is silica-based.
If you want to split hairs that way then fine. That's like saying "all things are made of atoms".



Clay itself is made of various silicates, so your compound is silica-based.
The fact is that HCM beads are not made from the same compounds as Heartfelt or similar silica beads. You can generalize and say that both kinbds of beads provide humidification. Beyond that they are different.

HCM beads have a much greater capacity to store moisture than Heartfelt. The HCM beads are designed to maintain an equilibrium in a closed (sealed) environment. They will absorb or release moisture as necessary to achieve this goal.

Why edit your post?

They look nothing like Heartfelt beads and from everything that I have heard, they do not act like Heartfelt beads...

Not to get into a pissing match, but essentially you put either product into your humidor and they maintain the rH% levels. They might go about the process differently, but the end result is the same is it not?
 
Thanks for that link CigarAl.... I was reading a post by the inventor of HCM beads and saw this little statement by the inventor...

"The beads that most everyone uses are made of silica gel (the same as my HCS beads)." And he goes further to say that the only difference between his silica beads and others are the pores.....


I would like to see a response by the new owner as to this statement by the inventor. Not trying to be argumentative, just would like to see an explanation as to the statements given earlier




Edited to try to make more sense...


Clay itself is made of various silicates, so your compound is silica-based.
If you want to split hairs that way then fine. That's like saying "all things are made of atoms".



Clay itself is made of various silicates, so your compound is silica-based.
The fact is that HCM beads are not made from the same compounds as Heartfelt or similar silica beads. You can generalize and say that both kinbds of beads provide humidification. Beyond that they are different.

HCM beads have a much greater capacity to store moisture than Heartfelt. The HCM beads are designed to maintain an equilibrium in a closed (sealed) environment. They will absorb or release moisture as necessary to achieve this goal.

Why edit your post?

They look nothing like Heartfelt beads and from everything that I have heard, they do not act like Heartfelt beads...

Not to get into a pissing match, but essentially you put either product into your humidor and they maintain the rH% levels. They might go about the process differently, but the end result is the same is it not?

Thanks guys. This was exactly the point I was making. Looks and acts like other silica based products. I would think that if you bought the business, you would know everything about your product. To market them as something else is irresponsible and dishonest.

I'm even skeptical as to the original owner's claim that he developed the product. Silica beads have been around since the early part of the 20th century and can be bought and used in various forms. All the silica products from the various "cigar" companies (gels, beads, pucks, etc.) are essentially the same product just in varying states. You order them the way you want them to behave and how they look. You can order them in gel form, bead form, irregular crystal form, colored/non-colored, absorption behavior, and size of the beads/crystals. None of these cigar-centric companies actually produce the silica gel/bead, but instead purchase them from chemical companies such as Dow. They then package and market them as they see fit. You're just the first to have come out trying to say they are not silica and something completely new...and charge more for it. Good luck.
 
One thing to bring up is the way we recharge beads, ive seen a post by the original owner of the HCM beads about dipping them in water/spraying causing extensive heat issues to the point of melting the material/container they are held in.

Heartfelt beads can be dipped beads may crack but still operate the same.
 
I do hope CigarNut comes back also.

As I mentioned before, CP welcomes vendors who want to contribute to this board. And those who understand how to act/respond and engage with the board's members are highly sucessful.

CigarNut says he is not here to promote or push his product. That's too bad, becasue he is certianly welcome to do so (in a responsible manner) instead he "pops up" on threads (on this board and others) on discussions about beads. He apparently forgot to mention in his intro thread (at least he posted) that we was a vendor.

As CigarNut is not willing to take the time to post info on his own product, just to show how nice we are here, I found some more info the previous owner (Scott) posted on other boards. See this thread from CigarAslyum where Scott discuss his proaduct and how it compares to others out there (SAPs, Kitty Litter, Viper's). CigarNut could benefit greatly from following in his predecessor's footsteps and doing some research here on the subject of beads.

Cigar Asylum Link

Some interesting quotes:

"I've done tons of tests on all sorts of humidifying media and all the results have been posted at Club Stogie in the past." - How hard was that CigarNut

"My beads don't work quite like Mark's or Dave's. There's no salt or chemical component in them that regulates evaporation.
They rely on the principle of equilibrium, tons of math, and a well sealed humi. They also rely on a "care" regimen that's designed to remove human error. They also take advantage of an adsorbative capacity that's far in excess (greater than 800% per volume) that of Mark or Dave's beads.
By not having any additives, there's just more room. The structure of HCM beads is much different, too. That allows for a far greater amount of water to be present in them.
Their structure also allows a much higher covalency (electrical charge) that pushes water back and forth between the beads and their surroundings.
Another think is that HCM bead's internal structure allows for a much higher level of depracation, meaning they won't crack or break down over time. There's no reason why they won't last forever when maintained properly.
Add to that, the pores in the beads are too small for free hydrocarbons (cigar smells) to enter them, plugging the beads and reducing their effectiveness. The holes are just the right size to gather and store free ammonia, and they have an almost infinate capacity per volume to do so, making them ideal for aging cigars."

"If I weren't using my beads, I'd be using Mark's or Dave's"

"Mark has supported me and helped me all along the way, too. It's not often you'll find a guy who's so decent and kind that he'll help someone who's creating a competitive product. Show's what kind of person he is. He's far more interested in his brothers than making money."

In my opinion is seems like Scott (the orginal owner) was also more interested in interacting with the community and knowledgeable about his product. And willing to entertain in a disccussion about his product, Not just brag about it.

Al
 
To be fair to Cigarnut, it was me that posted the original question not him. I honestly was expecting the obligatory "search is your friend" fearing this has been discussed many times before. I'm actually glad the debate started as another humidification device that works effortlessly can only help us all. Maybe, I'll give the HCM beads a shot in my new humi and can report back on the success I have with them.
 
To be fair to Cigarnut, it was me that posted the original question not him. I honestly was expecting the obligatory "search is your friend" fearing this has been discussed many times before. I'm actually glad the debate started as another humidification device that works effortlessly can only help us all. Maybe, I'll give the HCM beads a shot in my new humi and can report back on the success I have with them.


Yes please. Think it would be good to get an unbiased opinion.
 
To be fair to Cigarnut, it was me that posted the original question not him. I honestly was expecting the obligatory "search is your friend" fearing this has been discussed many times before. I'm actually glad the debate started as another humidification device that works effortlessly can only help us all. Maybe, I'll give the HCM beads a shot in my new humi and can report back on the success I have with them.
I think it's safe to say Tom didn't confuse your handle with Cigarnut. I believe he was asking if you are the same person, or know each other. It wouldn't be the first time someone attempted to shill their products by posting a seemingly legit question followed up with advertising disguised as helpful info.
 
To be fair to Cigarnut, it was me that posted the original question not him. I honestly was expecting the obligatory "search is your friend" fearing this has been discussed many times before. I'm actually glad the debate started as another humidification device that works effortlessly can only help us all. Maybe, I'll give the HCM beads a shot in my new humi and can report back on the success I have with them.
I think it's safe to say Tom didn't confuse your handle with Cigarnut. I believe he was asking if you are the same person, or know each other. It wouldn't be the first time someone attempted to shill their products by posting a seemingly legit question followed up with advertising disguised as helpful info.



Oh so cynical, Elliot!

:whistling:
 
For health and other reasons Scott was not able to continue with the beads so I purchased his business.

I hope it wasn't from the beads!


By the way, here's another site: http://www.shilalash...s.com/about.asp

Would you please post the MSD for these.

I also noticed these:
They also scavenge and hold free ammonia.
will last a lifetime with proper care and work at least 800% better than any other passive humidification product available
They also grab and hold any free ammonia that comes off of your cigars – especially important for Coolidors (that do not have wood to absorb the ammonia) used for aging cigars.
In order to get the same humidity buffering benefit from kitty litter as from HCM beads, a person would need to use 9 to 14 pounds of kitty litter as compared to one pound of HCM beads.

So, what heppens to the ammonia? Will it eventually diminsih the beads active behavior?
Also, is some amount of ammonia good and reasonable to cigar aging?
What is the numeric correlation of beads to kitty littler?
What is the difference due too? Bead size or compound properties?
Lastly, for now, how was the 800% calculated?

Thanks for showing us a new product!
thumbs-up.gif


Ummm, are we talking about clay used by florists?

hybrid clay-based materials

----------edit-------------

Here's an interesting read(note the material -sodium bentonite, which is a very fine grained montmorillonite.)

http://www.natmus.dk...ff/wallbuff.htm

--------edit edit-----

Is this the stuff in electronics that you 'are not' supppose to eat?
unsure.gif


http://welldry.en.al..._container.html

(wait...that has calcium chloride!...ooops!)
 
I use both and like different things about them. I have not noticed a general difference in performance. I like Heartfelt because I can visually see when they need (or have too much) water. HCM are much smaller and make a nice humidifier for HERF boxes using a Davidoff special tubes.
 
I kind of wish I was Cigarnut. Then maybe I could stay at home, smoke cigars and sell beads instead of sit 9 hours in a cubicle!

I do like your point about visibly being able to see the "status" of the heartfelt beads.

Good Lord, I sound like a 15 year old girl picking out prom shoes...Red or White!!! Just pick your beads and get to it.
 
I kind of wish I was Cigarnut. Then maybe I could stay at home, smoke cigars and sell beads instead of sit 9 hours in a cubicle!
I do like your point about visibly being able to see the "status" of the heartfelt beads.

Good Lord, I sound like a 15 year old girl picking out prom shoes...Red or White!!! Just pick your beads and get to it.

IIRC, That's not his primary means of supporting himself.
 
Looks like he is not interested in coming back to discuss or support his product here........Which is too bad, because as I have stated before and the members of this site have shown, a knowledgable, respectful, contributing vendor is welcome here with open arms (and certianly will see the benefits oh his participation).
 
Maybe this would be a good time for someone to create an industry standardization method as to testing humidification products. I have found the Cigarmony pucks work better than anything I've tried for desk tops. They seem to create a very good balance and maintain the RH very accurately. If there were a way to make a humidor that could be humidified to 65% then each product be put in and the RH be monitored from outside for its longevity. Then possibly something that absorbs humidity could be added to monitor its recovery rate. It's kind of like a problem that existed in the car audio world for years. You could buy an amp that claimed to be 1000 watts for 65 bucks at the swap meet. Then go into a retailer and find an amp that was 1000 watts and it was $1000.00 dollars. Finally in 2006 they came up with an industry standard for testing true power. it's called the 2006 CEA certification. If an amp doesn't have that logo, it doesn't make true power. The same could be done with humidification devices and would add credibility to the products. They could also be sold with a sheet giving the results. A tool for marketing the products that allows them to back up the claims with facts. IMNSHO :D
 
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