Dominican leaf to Cuba?

[jabba]

John,

I'm curious to your personal belief regarding the statement below (because of your extensive knowledge about the growing and processing of tobacco)...

“Properly grown and processed Cuban tobacco is the world’s best,” says Reyes

I've also seen Jose Padron quoted saying something similar.

Thanks,

Joe

 

[John Oliva Jr]

John,

I'm curious to your personal belief regarding the statement below (because of your extensive knowledge about the growing and processing of tobacco)...

“Properly grown and processed Cuban tobacco is the world’s best,” says Reyes

I've also seen Jose Padron quoted saying something similar.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe I would have to agree when PROPERLY grown and processed. Like everybody else they don't always get it right.

 

[moki]

mr. mac, I can't take credit for the Oliva cigars. My company only grows tobacco and is completely unrelated to the Oliva's who make cigars. We've been in bussiness for 75 years, they for eleven. Though they do use our wrappers.

But you can take credit for the Ashton VSG wrappers, among many others!

 

[moki]

John,

I'm curious to your personal belief regarding the statement below (because of your extensive knowledge about the growing and processing of tobacco)...

“Properly grown and processed Cuban tobacco is the world’s best,” says Reyes

I've also seen Jose Padron quoted saying something similar.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe I would have to agree when PROPERLY grown and processed. Like everybody else they don't always get it right.

Agreed... properly grown and processed French grapes are arguably the best in the world too, but only a small percentage of what they churn out falls into this category.

 

[Ginseng]

What an interesting thread made more substantive by the welcomed comments of Mr. Oliva.

I suppose it's not impossible that Dominican or Nicaraguan suppliers are sending tobacco into Cuba. The real question, of course, is whether or not it is used in any of the Habanos denomination of origin premium handmade cigars.

As to the claim that Cuban wrappers are unfermented? I find that impossible to believe. Unfermented tobacco leaves have 5-10 times the nicotine that fermented leaves contain. Even in as small a proportion by weight as wrapper, I cannot imagine a cigar containing unfermented leaf to be even remotely smokable.

Mr. Oliva's comment on the 90% RH claim is right on the button. Terroir and the effect it has on the expression of genetic traits is the most likely, most plausible explanation for the distinctive character of Cuban tobacco. This is, in fact, the "nature through nurture" perspective on growth and individuation that the great majority of developmental scientists hold.

It surprises me just a little that someone with such a depth of practical experience (i.e. the fermentation of Connecticut shade tobacco) could be so far off base on such fundamental technical items.

Wilkey

 

[CoventryCat86]

Read this article and let me know your thoughts:

Interview with Emilio Reyes

Here's my thought:

For the life of me, I cannot understand where you're going with this.

The title of this thread is "Dominican leaf to Cuba?" but the article you referenced doesn't appear to me to have anything to do with that. This article is just a bio on Emilio Reyes.

From the article:

"Don Emilio, with brothers Augusto, Leonardo, and Priamo Ernesto, supply dark tobacco to some of the most prestigious brands on the U.S. and international markets, as well as to the Cuban cigar industry. That statement draws my surprise, and Reyes explains his family has regularly supplied Cuba since his grandfather Julio’s time, about 100 years ago"

Ah okay, please forgive my poor reading comprehension skills....

I honestly don't know what to make of this zeebra.

 

[tigger]

Thanks for your insights John! :thumbs:

 

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

The tobacco could be for other SA Habanos tobacco products like their snus or cigarettes.

 

[ilcchef2]

How about Cuban tobacco being exported to the DR and Miami for use in cigar production there? Any thoughts? I have heard claims of this also.

 

[moki]

How about Cuban tobacco being exported to the DR and Miami for use in cigar production there? Any thoughts? I have heard claims of this also.

That certainly used to be the case; Key West and Ybor City were churning out many quality cigars made from Cuban tobacco back in the day.

The idea that it's going on now, though, while not impossible seems rather implausible. It's not easy to smuggle in massive bails of tobacco, especially not under the current climate.

Any time you see "Cuban" used in marketing a cigar (outside of Cuba), it's being done solely to play off of the public meme that Cuban cigars are the "best in the world" -- the same thing was done with "France" and "French" with wines back in the day, before wines outside of France achieved a significant level of success.

To my mind, if someone is using the word "Cuban" in marketing a cigar, then the cigar probably isn't very good, nor is it for me... because they are targeting people who would be impressed by such claims.

 

[tigger]

It's not easy to smuggle in massive bails of tobacco, especially not under the current climate.

And bales are tougher still.

It's certainly hard to imagine high quality Cuban tobacco being exported through official channels, as it's needed for cigar production, and I can't see the margins on raw materials being higher than on finished products.

 

[sack]

Answer me this, how hard would it be for Cuba to send tobacco to a South American or Central American country, which in turn could ship it to the Miami? Seem to me if you can get tons of cocaine into the U.S. it shouldn't be that much harder to get tobacco in as well. If someone is determined to try, who's to stop them? If you claim the tobacco is frpm another country other then Cuba, i can see it happening. Maybe i should just shut up! :whistling:

 

[John Oliva Jr]

What an interesting thread made more substantive by the welcomed comments of Mr. Oliva.

I suppose it's not impossible that Dominican or Nicaraguan suppliers are sending tobacco into Cuba. The real question, of course, is whether or not it is used in any of the Habanos denomination of origin premium handmade cigars.

As to the claim that Cuban wrappers are unfermented? I find that impossible to believe. Unfermented tobacco leaves have 5-10 times the nicotine that fermented leaves contain. Even in as small a proportion by weight as wrapper, I cannot imagine a cigar containing unfermented leaf to be even remotely smokable.

Mr. Oliva's comment on the 90% RH claim is right on the button. Terroir and the effect it has on the expression of genetic traits is the most likely, most plausible explanation for the distinctive character of Cuban tobacco. This is, in fact, the "nature through nurture" perspective on growth and individuation that the great majority of developmental scientists hold.

It surprises me just a little that someone with such a depth of practical experience (i.e. the fermentation of Connecticut shade tobacco) could be so far off base on such fundamental technical items.

Wilkey

Wilkey, I think you should reread my reply to Joe's post more clearly (no where did I state that all Cuban wrappers are underfermented. What I stated was that not all Cuban wrappers as well as their non-Cuban brethrean are fermented PROPERLY). As to the last sentence of your above post I'm, frankly, taken aback. For the record I don't ferment "Connecticut Shade tobacco" (which, incidentally, goes through a box sweat and not the traditional Cuban style pilon sweat). For a better understanding of what my company does I would invite you to google Oliva Tobacco Company or Angel Oliva Sr. You obviousley have grown a lot of tobacco. I don't have to tell you or anybody else in my end of the business that a lot of tobacco (both Cuban and non-Cuban) goes to market inproperly cured and or underfermented. I have a rather extensive aged collection of both and see evidence of it everyday.
As to my technical expertise in curing tobacco I would invite you to ask anybody in the tobacco business (including the Cuban tobacco business, who incidentally have come to operations to see what we're doing) about or who is doing some of the best processing of tobacco in the world right now. It's the one aspect of our business we've staked our money and our reputations on.

 

[mr.mac]

What an interesting thread made more substantive by the welcomed comments of Mr. Oliva.

I suppose it's not impossible that Dominican or Nicaraguan suppliers are sending tobacco into Cuba. The real question, of course, is whether or not it is used in any of the Habanos denomination of origin premium handmade cigars.

As to the claim that Cuban wrappers are unfermented? I find that impossible to believe. Unfermented tobacco leaves have 5-10 times the nicotine that fermented leaves contain. Even in as small a proportion by weight as wrapper, I cannot imagine a cigar containing unfermented leaf to be even remotely smokable.

Mr. Oliva's comment on the 90% RH claim is right on the button. Terroir and the effect it has on the expression of genetic traits is the most likely, most plausible explanation for the distinctive character of Cuban tobacco. This is, in fact, the "nature through nurture" perspective on growth and individuation that the great majority of developmental scientists hold.

It surprises me just a little that someone with such a depth of practical experience (i.e. the fermentation of Connecticut shade tobacco) could be so far off base on such fundamental technical items.

Wilkey

Wilkey, I think you should reread my reply to Joe's post more clearly (no where did I state that all Cuban wrappers are underfermented. What I stated was that not all Cuban wrappers as well as their non-Cuban brethrean are fermented PROPERLY). As to the last sentence of your above post I'm, frankly, taken aback. For the record I don't ferment "Connecticut Shade tobacco" (which, incidentally, goes through a box sweat and not the traditional Cuban style pilon sweat). For a better understanding of what my company does I would invite you to google Oliva Tobacco Company or Angel Oliva Sr. You obviousley have grown a lot of tobacco. I don't have to tell you or anybody else in my end of the business that a lot of tobacco (both Cuban and non-Cuban) goes to market inproperly cured and or underfermented. I have a rather extensive aged collection of both and see evidence of it everyday.
As to my technical expertise in curing tobacco I would invite you to ask anybody in the tobacco business (including the Cuban tobacco business, who incidentally have come to operations to see what we're doing) about or who is doing some of the best processing of tobacco in the world right now. It's the one aspect of our business we've staked our money and our reputations on.

John... settle down. I think Wilkey was talking about the comments in the link presented in the original thread... not the comments that you made... ???

mac

 

[John Oliva Jr]

What an interesting thread made more substantive by the welcomed comments of Mr. Oliva.

I suppose it's not impossible that Dominican or Nicaraguan suppliers are sending tobacco into Cuba. The real question, of course, is whether or not it is used in any of the Habanos denomination of origin premium handmade cigars.

As to the claim that Cuban wrappers are unfermented? I find that impossible to believe. Unfermented tobacco leaves have 5-10 times the nicotine that fermented leaves contain. Even in as small a proportion by weight as wrapper, I cannot imagine a cigar containing unfermented leaf to be even remotely smokable.

Mr. Oliva's comment on the 90% RH claim is right on the button. Terroir and the effect it has on the expression of genetic traits is the most likely, most plausible explanation for the distinctive character of Cuban tobacco. This is, in fact, the "nature through nurture" perspective on growth and individuation that the great majority of developmental scientists hold.

It surprises me just a little that someone with such a depth of practical experience (i.e. the fermentation of Connecticut shade tobacco) could be so far off base on such fundamental technical items.

Wilkey

You're right mac. After rereading Wilkey's post I've just made an ASS of myself. Sorry Wilk. I thought your post was directed at me. Wilk please IM me your snailer. A making an ASS of myself bomb package will be sent out tommorrow. Sorry dude.

Wilkey, I think you should reread my reply to Joe's post more clearly (no where did I state that all Cuban wrappers are underfermented. What I stated was that not all Cuban wrappers as well as their non-Cuban brethrean are fermented PROPERLY). As to the last sentence of your above post I'm, frankly, taken aback. For the record I don't ferment "Connecticut Shade tobacco" (which, incidentally, goes through a box sweat and not the traditional Cuban style pilon sweat). For a better understanding of what my company does I would invite you to google Oliva Tobacco Company or Angel Oliva Sr. You obviousley have grown a lot of tobacco. I don't have to tell you or anybody else in my end of the business that a lot of tobacco (both Cuban and non-Cuban) goes to market inproperly cured and or underfermented. I have a rather extensive aged collection of both and see evidence of it everyday.
As to my technical expertise in curing tobacco I would invite you to ask anybody in the tobacco business (including the Cuban tobacco business, who incidentally have come to operations to see what we're doing) about or who is doing some of the best processing of tobacco in the world right now. It's the one aspect of our business we've staked our money and our reputations on.

John... settle down. I think Wilkey was talking about the comments in the link presented in the original thread... not the comments that you made... ???

mac

 

[Ginseng]

Mr. Mac,

Yes, your reading of my post is accurate. It did not occur to me that John Oliva might have experience with Connecticut shade and thus the reference was unclear. Sorry about that. You're absolutely right that I was speaking of Sr. Reyes.

Wilkey

 

[SeeGars]

Johnito

Some of the post upon post upon posts referencing here can be a bit confusing when reading threads and trying to follow the dialogue. It could happen to anyone.

 

[jabba]

John,

I'm curious to your personal belief regarding the statement below (because of your extensive knowledge about the growing and processing of tobacco)...

“Properly grown and processed Cuban tobacco is the world’s best,” says Reyes

I've also seen Jose Padron quoted saying something similar.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe I would have to agree when PROPERLY grown and processed. Like everybody else they don't always get it right.

Thanks John.

 

[jabba]

John,

I'm curious to your personal belief regarding the statement below (because of your extensive knowledge about the growing and processing of tobacco)...

“Properly grown and processed Cuban tobacco is the world’s best,” says Reyes

I've also seen Jose Padron quoted saying something similar.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe I would have to agree when PROPERLY grown and processed. Like everybody else they don't always get it right.

Agreed... properly grown and processed French grapes are arguably the best in the world too, but only a small percentage of what they churn out falls into this category.

Moki,

I think it's hard to compare the two because their political and business environments are very different. My guess is... things would be different if Cuba was free and open for business ... they might be able to get it right more often with the help of John's company.

 

[Zeebra]

All this talk about Cuba importing leaf or exporting leaf (as in back in the day to Miami) - has reminded me of a local cigar roller here in Toronto, Canada called Correnti Cigars. They claim to import raw Cuban leaf and roll them in Toronto. They've been around for years, have had right-ups in the newspapers so I don't know what to think of this either. If Cuba has to import tobacco due to being "short" in their crop, would they really be exporting tobacco too? Anyway here's the Correnti link for those who are wondering, the website is pretty bad: Correnti cigars