Dominican leaf to Cuba?

[docb]

All this talk about Cuba importing leaf or exporting leaf (as in back in the day to Miami) - has reminded me of a local cigar roller here in Toronto, Canada called Correnti Cigars. They claim to import raw Cuban leaf and roll them in Toronto. They've been around for years, have had right-ups in the newspapers so I don't know what to think of this either. If Cuba has to import tobacco due to being "short" in their crop, would they really be exporting tobacco too? Anyway here's the Correnti link for those who are wondering, the website is pretty bad: Correnti cigars

Your question about Cuba both importing tobacco to meet their needs and exporting it. We import oil and export our reserves, crazy as that seems.

 

[vudu9]

John,

I'm curious to your personal belief regarding the statement below (because of your extensive knowledge about the growing and processing of tobacco)...

“Properly grown and processed Cuban tobacco is the world’s best,” says Reyes

I've also seen Jose Padron quoted saying something similar.

Thanks,

Joe

Joe I would have to agree when PROPERLY grown and processed. Like everybody else they don't always get it right.

Agreed... properly grown and processed French grapes are arguably the best in the world too, but only a small percentage of what they churn out falls into this category.

There's world-class wines that come from France, but my no means, are ALL French wines world-class. Same goes for Cuban, Honduran, Nicaraguan, Dominican cigars. IMHO -

 

[moki]

Agreed... properly grown and processed French grapes are arguably the best in the world too, but only a small percentage of what they churn out falls into this category.

There's world-class wines that come from France, but my no means, are ALL French wines world-class. Same goes for Cuban, Honduran, Nicaraguan, Dominican cigars. IMHO -

Agreed... but the caché factor persists for Cuban cigars among some... makes no sense to me at all. I don't see why tobacco would be the only crop in the world that can't be grown incredibly well except on the soil of one particular island.

 

[jabba]

Agreed... properly grown and processed French grapes are arguably the best in the world too, but only a small percentage of what they churn out falls into this category.

There's world-class wines that come from France, but my no means, are ALL French wines world-class. Same goes for Cuban, Honduran, Nicaraguan, Dominican cigars. IMHO -

Agreed... but the caché factor persists for Cuban cigars among some... makes no sense to me at all. I don't see why tobacco would be the only crop in the world that can't be grown incredibly well except on the soil of one particular island.

I don't think anyone was arguing that non Cuban tobacco sucks.

I only posed the question to John because it's interesting to hear the opinions of people with incredible experience/knowledge ... the reality is... taste is subjective and everyone has their own opinion.

 

[moki]

I don't think anyone was arguing that non Cuban tobacco sucks.

I only posed the question to John because it's interesting to hear the opinions of people with incredible experience/knowledge ... the reality is... taste is subjective and everyone has their own opinion.

...and I don't think I implied that anywhere in my post.

However, I do think it's a bit more than a stretch to try to claim that Cuban tobacco is the best in the world bar none, and always will be. Every other crop I can think of has been managed to be transplanted, hybridized, and successfully grown all over the world. Hell, they are even growing Truffles down in Australia now.

The argument used to be that it was the "special soil" and "special process" in France that allowed for grapes to be grown that could only make the greatest wine in the world. Which in the end turned out to be a whole lot of horseshit.

I see no reason to believe that tobacco is the one special plant that can't be grown outside of one tiny little island, and acheive as good or better success.

 

[jabba]

I don't think anyone was arguing that non Cuban tobacco sucks.

I only posed the question to John because it's interesting to hear the opinions of people with incredible experience/knowledge ... the reality is... taste is subjective and everyone has their own opinion.

...and I don't think I implied that anywhere in my post.

However, I do think it's a bit more than a stretch to try to claim that Cuban tobacco is the best in the world bar none, and always will be. Every other crop I can think of has been managed to be transplanted, hybridized, and successfully grown all over the world. Hell, they are even growing Truffles down in Australia now.

The argument used to be that it was the "special soil" and "special process" in France that allowed for grapes to be grown that could only make the greatest wine in the world. Which in the end turned out to be a whole lot of horseshit.

I see no reason to believe that tobacco is the one special plant that can't be grown outside of one tiny little island, and acheive as good or better success.

I would agree with you... but I would also say that if you like the characteristics of a particular tobacco... you may not be able to imitate that elsewhere.

For example... I recently tried the Pepin black label blend and fell in love with it... the Cubans may not be able to imitate the characteristics and flavor of this no matter how hard they try. This doesn't mean one is better than the other.

French grapes are not 'better' than Napa grapes... but if you like certain characteristics of a French grape/wine, you may not be able to find this elsewhere.

I believe the attributes of a country (soil, seed, climate etc etc) make it definitely different and hard to duplicate. If you have a love for Cuban Tobacco or French wine, you may not be able to satisfy what you are looking for elsewhere.

Notice when I asked John, I clear stated "your personal belief."

 

[moki]

I believe the attributes of a country (soil, seed, climate etc etc) make it definitely different and hard to duplicate. If you have a love for Cuban Tobacco or French wine, you may not be able to satisfy what you are looking for elsewhere.

Fair enough, that I agree with. However, I think many (most?) people who claim to love Cuban tobacco wouldn't acheive any greater accuracy in telling the difference between quality Cuban and non-Cuban cigars than the French Sommelliers trying to discern French wine from Californian wine. They did terribly, well below the 50% mark in determining where the wine came from in the recent competition, and they are trained to do it.

Now obviously you could pick very different, distinctive tasting brands and tell them apart fairly easily. However I think many people would have issues telling some of Pepin's stuff from a Montecristo, for instance.

I've been able to find very little common taste profile among cigars from Nicaragua. Does Pepin's stuff taste anything at all like Padróns? Not at all, but yet they are both Nicaraguan puros. I think sweeping statements about tobacco based on the country it is grown in is a gross oversimplification of the factors involved in the taste of the finished product.

But hey, Cuban mystique sells, just as French caché did. Cuba makes some fine cigars, there's no doubt. But so do plenty of other places.

 

[jabba]

I believe the attributes of a country (soil, seed, climate etc etc) make it definitely different and hard to duplicate. If you have a love for Cuban Tobacco or French wine, you may not be able to satisfy what you are looking for elsewhere.

Fair enough, that I agree with. However, I think many (most?) people who claim to love Cuban tobacco wouldn't acheive any greater accuracy in telling the difference between quality Cuban and non-Cuban cigars than the French Sommelliers trying to discern French wine from Californian wine. They did terribly, well below the 50% mark in determining where the wine came from in the recent competition, and they are trained to do it.

I didn't realize the French Sommeliers were in the same class as weathermen/women

 

[tsmckenney]

The argument used to be that it was the "special soil" and "special process" in France that allowed for grapes to be grown that could only make the greatest wine in the world. Which in the end turned out to be a whole lot of horseshit.

I see no reason to believe that tobacco is the one special plant that can't be grown outside of one tiny little island, and acheive as good or better success.

So true. I wish I could have been a cigar smoker when the market introduced cigars wrapped and filled with Cameroon tobacco. What a tremendous effect those crops have had on the industry. It's makes me wonder about other African countries that are known for their fruit and coffee, and just what kind of tobacco they could produce as well.

 

[bigmac]

One slant I havent heard here is would it be possible the imported leaf is used for the fakes market? Also isnt part of the unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros from the high levels of lithium in cuban soil??It makes for a unique product like the vidalia onions here in georgia they are sweeter and less harsh because there is a very low sulfur content in the siol of the area and that cant be copied anywhere although hawaii and texas come close but the vidalias are unmistakeable.

 

[moki]

One slant I havent heard here is would it be possible the imported leaf is used for the fakes market? Also isnt part of the unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros from the high levels of lithium in cuban soil??It makes for a unique product like the vidalia onions here in georgia they are sweeter and less harsh because there is a very low sulfur content in the siol of the area and that cant be copied anywhere although hawaii and texas come close but the vidalias are unmistakeable.

You're saying that one can't add sulfur, lithium, or anything else for that matter to soil?

What is the "unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros" you speak of? Do Guantanameras and Bolivars both share this "unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros"?

 

[Wurm]

Do Guantanameras and Bolivars both share this "unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros"?

They most certainly do not. The Guantanamera cigars taste more like Sumatran cigars than any other cigar from Cuba (or anywhere else for that matter) I've had.


But for example a JLP Breva does have that "unique" Cuban taste that most cigars from Cuba share. So its not just limited to the price point of the cigar.

 

[bigmac]

One slant I havent heard here is would it be possible the imported leaf is used for the fakes market? Also isnt part of the unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros from the high levels of lithium in cuban soil??It makes for a unique product like the vidalia onions here in georgia they are sweeter and less harsh because there is a very low sulfur content in the siol of the area and that cant be copied anywhere although hawaii and texas come close but the vidalias are unmistakeable.

You're saying that one can't add sulfur, lithium, or anything else for that matter to soil?

What is the "unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros" you speak of? Do Guantanameras and Bolivars both share this "unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros"?

No I am sure the soil can be somewhat copied but that along with the climate(sun wind rain) is unique to cuba, but i guess that can be copied too.All I can tell you is nobody can grow an onion that compares to a Vidalia IMO, the same goes for a cuban cigar there is no other cigar in the world that compares to a good cuban IMO.Now I am not saying that others arent good they just arent as good to me.

The flavor profile has a metalic taste to it it is unmistakeable, I have never smoked a Guantanamera, bolivars have it, but if you send me two cigars one a cuban one not I CAN tell the difference between them as can anyone who is familiar with the difference.

 

[bigmac]

Do Guantanameras and Bolivars both share this "unmistakeable flavor profile in cuban puros"?

They most certainly do not. The Guantanamera cigars taste more like Sumatran cigars than any other cigar from Cuba (or anywhere else for that matter) I've had.


But for example a JLP Breva does have that "unique" Cuban taste that most cigars from Cuba share. So its not just limited to the price point of the cigar.

Exactly right a quintero brevas has it too.

 

[moki]

The flavor profile has a metalic taste to it it is unmistakeable, I have never smoked a Guantanamera, bolivars have it, but if you send me two cigars one a cuban one not I CAN tell the difference between them as can anyone who is familiar with the difference.

How much do you care to wager on that?

 

[Mike33]

The flavor profile has a metalic taste to it it is unmistakeable, I have never smoked a Guantanamera, bolivars have it, but if you send me two cigars one a cuban one not I CAN tell the difference between them as can anyone who is familiar with the difference.

How much do you care to wager on that?

Do I smell a Challenge?! Andrew......I tell you what, I would like to be part of this experiment if you would permit me. However, I KNOW I can tell the difference b/w a cuban dunhill and a Guantanamera. Send me two and I will gladly do a blind taste review :thumbs:

I kid, I kid. The real difference to me b/w cuban and N/C is heavier coffee bean notes with MOST cubans. Can't say I have ever tasted metallic....but who knows.

 

[Ginseng]

Oh goodness. This could get interesting. I still remember the landmark "Lance Challenge" on CS.

I will admit to believing I can tell the difference between certain Cubans and certain NC's but I agree that there is a fairly broad space where national origin would be extremely difficult to discern with confidence.

Wilkey

 

[bigmac]

The flavor profile has a metalic taste to it it is unmistakeable, I have never smoked a Guantanamera, bolivars have it, but if you send me two cigars one a cuban one not I CAN tell the difference between them as can anyone who is familiar with the difference.

How much do you care to wager on that?

No wagers, if you want to try to show me just show me

p.s. Andrew, I have much respect for your opinions and know you are one of the most informed FOG's in here and am not trying to argue with you in the least, but I think you know what I am saying about the unmistakeable flavor in some cuban cigars( I say some because I havent smoked all brands).I know you probably can come up with a stumper pair of cigars as I have smoked some cubans that didnt have the "taste". The maduro5 I smoked the other day didnt "have it" maybe it was sick or my taste buds were shot out that day I dont know.Maybe they are using the dominican leaf in them I dont know, but it didnt have it.

 

[ilcchef2]

The person doing the choosing in such a wager will always have the upper hand...

 

[moki]

Oh goodness. This could get interesting. I still remember the landmark "Lance Challenge" on CS.

I will admit to believing I can tell the difference between certain Cubans and certain NC's but I agree that there is a fairly broad space where national origin would be extremely difficult to discern with confidence.

Wilkey

mmmmmhmmmmmmm... remember how sure Lance was he could pick out the country of origin too?