CP's "Cigar 101" Newbie Pass 4

[CigarMan Andy]

The Opus DC is hard to get anytime, but easier to get at Christmas. I have access to over 20 B&Ms and have a hard time getting them. However, I was at Drapers on Wed. and the had almost a full box, and by Friday, they were gone for the year. Easier to get xXx or PerfecXion, and they are hard to get.

The rarity issue is tough, but RETAIL for RETAIL is the rule. Both are rare, but the truth is if you are doubling the price for rarity on a 858 SG, then he should use $30 for the Opus DC. The math doesn't work. It would be different if the 858 was a Rosado, where there is only 50 boxes produced. That would be a doubling issue. I would say $1 maybe, but not double.

 

[northernmoris]

This actually can be fixed quite easily. Send me the SG and I'll cover the Pepin.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

This actually can be fixed quite easily. Send me the SG and I'll cover the Pepin.

That's awesome. That is what I was thinking. If it is rare to someone, they would be happy to do a trade, but not in the pass.

 

[SiriusBlack]

I think am next in the line up and thought I would go ahead and post my puts and takes...

T) Tatuaje Noella
P) Cohiba Black Corona

T) Opus XxX
P) God of Fire 2005 Churchill

T) CAO Gold Perfecto
P) Saint Luis Rey Series G Churchill

 

[northernmoris]

I think am next in the line up and thought I would go ahead and post my puts and takes...

T) Tatuaje Noella
P) Cohiba Black Corona

T) Opus XxX
P) God of Fire 2005 Churchill

T) CAO Gold Perfecto
P) Saint Luis Rey Series G Churchill

12. xXx ("Power Ranger")................4.625 x 49...................$ 9.25 / $388.50 (42) (From CP Lounge Opus pinned at top.)

The GOF is in the $20's... God of Fire Churchill (3-Pack) 7 x 48 $69.00 (From Jackschwartz)

I would say thats a bit off. Very generous indeed, but if we are staying true to Value....

 

[Kingantz]

I think am next in the line up and thought I would go ahead and post my puts and takes...

T) Tatuaje Noella
P) Cohiba Black Corona

T) Opus XxX
P) God of Fire 2005 Churchill

T) CAO Gold Perfecto
P) Saint Luis Rey Series G Churchill

12. xXx ("Power Ranger")................4.625 x 49...................$ 9.25 / $388.50 (42) From CP Lounge Opus pinned at top.

The GOF is in the $20's... God of Fire Churchill (3-Pack) 7 x 48 $69.00 (From Jackschwartz)

I would say thats a bit off. Very generous indeed, but if we are staying true to Value....

Woooo let's slow down there... :laugh: We're not quite done with Jeremy's yet....

 

[northernmoris]

I think am next in the line up and thought I would go ahead and post my puts and takes...

T) Tatuaje Noella
P) Cohiba Black Corona

T) Opus XxX
P) God of Fire 2005 Churchill

T) CAO Gold Perfecto
P) Saint Luis Rey Series G Churchill

12. xXx ("Power Ranger")................4.625 x 49...................$ 9.25 / $388.50 (42) From CP Lounge Opus pinned at top.

The GOF is in the $20's... God of Fire Churchill (3-Pack) 7 x 48 $69.00 (From Jackschwartz)

I would say thats a bit off. Very generous indeed, but if we are staying true to Value....

Woooo let's slow down there... :laugh: We're not quite done with Jeremy's yet....

:blush: Sorry Greg... Rewind...

 

[Dsav101]

My man Kenyatta couldn't wait to post up about the Noella hehehe. Very nice brother, but lets sort out this other issue first!

Don

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

The Opus DC is hard to get anytime, but easier to get at Christmas. I have access to over 20 B&Ms and have a hard time getting them. However, I was at Drapers on Wed. and the had almost a full box, and by Friday, they were gone for the year. Easier to get xXx or PerfecXion, and they are hard to get.

The rarity issue is tough, but RETAIL for RETAIL is the rule. Both are rare, but the truth is if you are doubling the price for rarity on a 858 SG, then he should use $30 for the Opus DC. The math doesn't work. It would be different if the 858 was a Rosado, where there is only 50 boxes produced. That would be a doubling issue. I would say $1 maybe, but not double.

I have to disagree here because the price point of the 858 is very low. I don't think we should look at the rarity as doubling the price as much as it is only raising it a couple dollars ($4.25). The 858 SG from what I have seen in my limited experience is much harder to find than most any other regular Opus vitola. There is a box of Opus DC sitting in my local B&M. Granted it is way above MSRP and you can only buy the whole box. I think this P/T should be left up to Greg obviously, however in my mind the 858 SG is more than acceptable for the DP Blue Label Lancero.

Edit to add price difference.

 

[SiriusBlack]

My man Kenyatta couldn't wait to post up about the Noella hehehe. Very nice brother, but lets sort out this other issue first!

Don

Yeah you nailed me!!

 

[miamipadronsmoker]

From Vitolas.net. Thanks Moki I hope this is ok.
Flor Fina 858 Sun Grown
Cigar name: Flor Fina 858 Sun Grown
aka: "858 SGs"
Vitola: 6" x 47
Wrapper: Ecuadorian sun grown
Binder: ?? unknown
Filler: Flor Fina blend
Released: October 2000 to display contest participating retailers
Quantity: up to 5 boxes per retailer
Rarity: 1/10
MSRP: $4.75 per cigar, $118.75 per box of 25 cigars

MSRP does not include state sales tax, nor state tobacco tax, the latter of which can be quite significant.

Notes: The Flor Fina 858 Sun Grown cigars were made available to retailers who participated in the window display contest in 2000. Until recently (see below), they were made available to the same retailers on an annual basis, generally around Father's Day and/or Christmas.

The cigars themselves use the same Ecuadorian sun grown wrapper from the Olivas that Fuente uses on their other Sun Grown cigars. The cigar blend is the same as the regular Flor Fina 858 cigars.

An interesting tidbit is that as of 2007, the cigars that have been shipped since 2002 have all been from batches that were rolled in 2002. So the current shipments of 858 SGs are aged a number of years right out of the box. Other trivia is that "Jettaman" received a box of 858 SGs for the millionth post contest on CigarFamily.com that was before the official release in 2000.

The 858 SGs have become increasingly limited in their release in recent years. Since 2005, it appears that very few vendors have received them.

All releases of the 858 SGs from 2002-2006 have been from the batch rolled in 2002. A new batch of 858 SGs was rolled for the 2007 release, and perhaps beyond.

Related: Flor Fina 858 Cigars

* Note that due to the rarity of these cigars, not all retailers charged MSRP, nor are they available at anywhere near MSRP today

 

[SiriusBlack]

I think am next in the line up and thought I would go ahead and post my puts and takes...

T) Tatuaje Noella
P) Cohiba Black Corona

T) Opus XxX
P) God of Fire 2005 Churchill

T) CAO Gold Perfecto
P) Saint Luis Rey Series G Churchill

12. xXx ("Power Ranger")................4.625 x 49...................$ 9.25 / $388.50 (42) From CP Lounge Opus pinned at top.

The GOF is in the $20's... God of Fire Churchill (3-Pack) 7 x 48 $69.00 (From Jackschwartz)

I would say thats a bit off. Very generous indeed, but if we are staying true to Value....

Woooo let's slow down there... :laugh: We're not quite done with Jeremy's yet....

Okay I'll reconsider the GOF and repost once the other issue is resolved. If nothing else you'll never accuse me of slowing down the pass!!!

 

[stepthirteen]

From Vitolas.net. Thanks Moki I hope this is ok.
Flor Fina 858 Sun Grown
Cigar name: Flor Fina 858 Sun Grown
aka: "858 SGs"
Vitola: 6" x 47
Wrapper: Ecuadorian sun grown
Binder: ?? unknown
Filler: Flor Fina blend
Released: October 2000 to display contest participating retailers
Quantity: up to 5 boxes per retailer
Rarity: 1/10
MSRP: $4.75 per cigar, $118.75 per box of 25 cigars

MSRP does not include state sales tax, nor state tobacco tax, the latter of which can be quite significant.

Notes: The Flor Fina 858 Sun Grown cigars were made available to retailers who participated in the window display contest in 2000. Until recently (see below), they were made available to the same retailers on an annual basis, generally around Father's Day and/or Christmas.

The cigars themselves use the same Ecuadorian sun grown wrapper from the Olivas that Fuente uses on their other Sun Grown cigars. The cigar blend is the same as the regular Flor Fina 858 cigars.

An interesting tidbit is that as of 2007, the cigars that have been shipped since 2002 have all been from batches that were rolled in 2002. So the current shipments of 858 SGs are aged a number of years right out of the box. Other trivia is that "Jettaman" received a box of 858 SGs for the millionth post contest on CigarFamily.com that was before the official release in 2000.

The 858 SGs have become increasingly limited in their release in recent years. Since 2005, it appears that very few vendors have received them.

All releases of the 858 SGs from 2002-2006 have been from the batch rolled in 2002. A new batch of 858 SGs was rolled for the 2007 release, and perhaps beyond.

Related: Flor Fina 858 Cigars

* Note that due to the rarity of these cigars, not all retailers charged MSRP, nor are they available at anywhere near MSRP today

Now this my friends is what a pass is all about!! Everything said has been very intersting! Thank you to everyone for their commentary!

Jim

 

[SiriusBlack]

I think am next in the line up and thought I would go ahead and post my puts and takes...

T) Tatuaje Noella
P) Cohiba Black Corona

T) Opus XxX
P) God of Fire 2005 Churchill

T) CAO Gold Perfecto
P) Saint Luis Rey Series G Churchill

12. xXx ("Power Ranger")................4.625 x 49...................$ 9.25 / $388.50 (42) (From CP Lounge Opus pinned at top.)

The GOF is in the $20's... God of Fire Churchill (3-Pack) 7 x 48 $69.00 (From Jackschwartz)

I would say thats a bit off. Very generous indeed, but if we are staying true to Value....

Funny thing is not long ago I posted a concern about over generous puts as a newbie member of CP. Then I turn around and do it. I certainly wasn't trying to step out of the rules..just making sure I was covering any rarities issues, etc. Still just HAPPY to be playing!

 

[Dsav101]

Bah, wheres your opinion sit? Out with it man!!!

Don

 

[Kingantz]

Pass arrived this afternoon. Here are my puts and takes:
(T) 10 Cabaiguan Guapo Junior (P) 51 Don Pepin Garcia Series JJ Belicoso - Looks Good!
(T) 13 CI Legend Black Label (P) 52 EO 601 Red Label Robusto - Looks Good!

(T) 20 Don Pepin Garcia Blue Label Lancero (P) 53 Arturo Fuente 858 Sungrown -
$9 vs $4.75 - the 858 SG has some rarity to it, however enough to cover the $4.25 spread? Thoughts anyone?

(T) 43 Opus X Double Corona (P) 54 Diamond Crown Figurado #6 -
$15 vs. $16 - Good on the price, however does $1 make up for rarity? Thoughts anyone?

Thanks for letting me play.

Excellent excellent discussions! Oh yes, the endless debate of rarity in a cigar. So many different thoughts, opinions, ideas. I myself would have to say that although the 858 SG is rare indeed, I'm having a hard time with its rarity pushing it up pricewise to over $9 a stick (even though I personally would rather have it than the DPG ). We could discuss MSRP and rarity forever, but I think it basically just comes down to what each of us individually would actually pay for a cigar. If there were just a dollar...maaaaybe two difference...I'd say yes. However, I'm saying no to the DPG/858 trade.

I'm really struggling with the Diamond Crown for the Opus DC. I'm kind of on the border with this one. Anyone have any other thoughts?

 

[jkim05]

Great discussion guys. I was not aware that the Opus DC was rarer than the other vitolas, so I'll go ahead and reassess that pick. My thinking was that I could get Opus usually in my area for about $5 over msrp or less and that the Diamond Crown was worth anywhere from $18-20, so it was about equal, but if the DC vitola is rarer then I do understand there is a bit of a discrepancy.

As for the 858 SG, I thought that was a generous put on my part because although MSRP is low on the 858, they are much rarer than Opus and I've never actually seen one in a store. Also, this is a pre-2007 858 SG so it was actually rolled in 2002 as noted in an earlier post and thus makes it a lot more valuable, imo. If we're going by MSRP, then this one should be no good, and the other one should be ok, but I think if we go by fair market value, then this one is ok while the other is more questionable. I think the MSRP number for this cigar is a bit ridiculous as it's not really in regular production and the price for MSRP is based on the 858 N/M price since Fuente never actually set an individual MSRP for this cigar.

All in all, I'll sleep on my picks and if they're still questionable in the morning, I'll adjust accordingly.

 

[mrrt]

Pass arrived this afternoon. Here are my puts and takes:
(T) 10 Cabaiguan Guapo Junior (P) 51 Don Pepin Garcia Series JJ Belicoso - Looks Good!
(T) 13 CI Legend Black Label (P) 52 EO 601 Red Label Robusto - Looks Good!

(T) 20 Don Pepin Garcia Blue Label Lancero (P) 53 Arturo Fuente 858 Sungrown -
$9 vs $4.75 - the 858 SG has some rarity to it, however enough to cover the $4.25 spread? Thoughts anyone?

(T) 43 Opus X Double Corona (P) 54 Diamond Crown Figurado #6 -
$15 vs. $16 - Good on the price, however does $1 make up for rarity? Thoughts anyone?

Thanks for letting me play.

One thing we have already allowed is for rarity to become a factor in the P/T. I think that occured around post 100 or so of this thread, so if we have already used it then I say on the $1 difference of Opus for DC Fig, well I'd say the rarity covers that one. As far as the 858 SG goes, well that qualifies as a very rare stick to me. I would think that if this is an aged stick then it could easily cover the $4.25 spread, but I'm not sure that we want to go that deep into a 'rarity cover' on our first pass.. But as was said around post 120 or so...rarity 'has the potential to make up for a little bit of the cost, but at the hosts discretion',so I'd have to toss that one back to you Greg and see how much of a dollar difference you are wanting rarity to cover or not cover.

Now as far as the Opus for DC gooes Greg, do you not think the $1 is covered.>>?? I'm wondering about that one as I would have said A-OK all day on that. Let me know.

Art

 

[stepthirteen]

Great discussion guys. I was not aware that the Opus DC was rarer than the other vitolas, so I'll go ahead and reassess that pick. My thinking was that I could get Opus usually in my area for about $5 over msrp or less and that the Diamond Crown was worth anywhere from $18-20, so it was about equal, but if the DC vitola is rarer then I do understand there is a bit of a discrepancy.

As for the 858 SG, I thought that was a generous put on my part because although MSRP is low on the 858, they are much rarer than Opus and I've never actually seen one in a store. Also, this is a pre-2007 858 SG so it was actually rolled in 2002 as noted in an earlier post and thus makes it a lot more valuable, imo. If we're going by MSRP, then this one should be no good, and the other one should be ok, but I think if we go by fair market value, then this one is ok while the other is more questionable. I think the MSRP number for this cigar is a bit ridiculous as it's not really in regular production and the price for MSRP is based on the 858 N/M price since Fuente never actually set an individual MSRP for this cigar.

All in all, I'll sleep on my picks and if they're still questionable in the morning, I'll adjust accordingly.

IMHO both of these are acceptable, but who the F#$@ am I , for the reason he listed above.

Jim

 

[CigarMan Andy]

The Opus DC is hard to get anytime, but easier to get at Christmas. I have access to over 20 B&Ms and have a hard time getting them. However, I was at Drapers on Wed. and the had almost a full box, and by Friday, they were gone for the year. Easier to get xXx or PerfecXion, and they are hard to get.

The rarity issue is tough, but RETAIL for RETAIL is the rule. Both are rare, but the truth is if you are doubling the price for rarity on a 858 SG, then he should use $30 for the Opus DC. The math doesn't work. It would be different if the 858 was a Rosado, where there is only 50 boxes produced. That would be a doubling issue. I would say $1 maybe, but not double.

I have to disagree here because the price point of the 858 is very low. I don't think we should look at the rarity as doubling the price as much as it is only raising it a couple dollars ($4.25). The 858 SG from what I have seen in my limited experience is much harder to find than most any other regular Opus vitola. There is a box of Opus DC sitting in my local B&M. Granted it is way above MSRP and you can only buy the whole box. I think this P/T should be left up to Greg obviously, however in my mind the 858 SG is more than acceptable for the DP Blue Label Lancero.

Edit to add price difference.

Here again Robbie, the reason they are still there is because of the high price. What I was saying is that neither of them should be any much more than MSRP. seeing how close we can get to matching the price per stick is what we are trying to accomplish. There is a B&M out here that does have a few Opus tins because not too many people will spent double MSRP for a cigar. I love Opus, but won't pay $25-$30 for a DC. Again RETAIL for RETAIL is one of the objectives.

As for the (T) 43 Opus X Double Corona (P) 54 Diamond Crown Figurado #6, $1 works for me.

If you remember, on my T/P I tried to be generous as well. It was pointed out to me that this was about learning and having fun. The generosity may be better left for trades. I thought it would look good if I gave more than I took. Thanks to you all, and your input, I am learning that you get respect from learning, and not taking the posts as criticism. IMHO, keeping in the spirit of the game can be fun and educational. I thank you all.