CP’s Cigars 201-2 Pass

[Kingantz]

I'd like to recommend everyone append the prices they've come up with to the end of each T/P to make it easier to compare.

I agree Larry, please add the prices for each that you came up with, feel free to even give details of where it came from. Also, please be sure to add the number of the take/P as well, makes it easier on me.

 

[modo22]

Hey guys; just got caught up and glad to be here. Thanks to Greg for letting me learn with the class this year. I am an exchange student and needed this pre-req :thumbs:

 

[jayro75]

I'd like to recommend everyone append the prices they've come up with to the end of each T/P to make it easier to compare.

I agree Larry, please add the prices for each that you came up with, feel free to even give details of where it came from. Also, please be sure to add the number of the take/P as well, makes it easier on me.

Hey I know exactly how much the Sir Winnie and RA Beli cost and where they came from. I even have their brothers in my humi.

 

[br174]

When P/T's are complete I will add #'s. Edited post with dollar figures.

Brian

 

[LarryH]

Brian,

It's a nice gesture but I think that last one is too much. Do you have another you can use instead. You guys are going to Put the rest of us right out of the pass.

Edit: changed the wording a bit.

 

[Kingantz]

Brian,

It's a nice gesture but I think that last one is too much. Do you have another you can use instead. You guys are going to Put the rest of us right out of the pass.

Edit: changed the wording a bit.

BOLIS!! :laugh:

 

[Gavin]

OK. Like to throw these out so people can check them out.

T. RyJ Escudos EL 07 $12.66
P. Boli Petit Beli EL 09$12.15


Brian

This is unacceptable as it was exactly what I planned to do if the Escudo were still around when it got to me!
:laugh:

 

[whopper]

Ok then, the link from Gary made for interesting reading.

First did we include a host bag in this pass? If not I would like to suggest we do so. Besides hosting this pass Greg does a bunch for the community and I would like to thank him CP style. Without adding a bunch to this rookie pass.

Now I think the over puts are going to be tough, but as stated it does come down to integrity. I think if you are over on one put, you might think about an under put so your individual effort is even for the pass. With the host bag then a little something something could be passed along the way.

Just my .02


PJ

??? Very subtle there.

OK. Like to throw these out so people can check them out.

T. RyJ Escudos EL 07 $12.66
P. Boli Petit Beli EL 09$12.15

T. PAM Exclusivo$10.90
P. Viaje Platino Reserva$10.80

T. RA Beli RE 2010(cause I want to try this stick)$13.00
P. Boli Simones RE 07 (OR)$20.00

There are a couple more like to grab. Love that Sir Winston(08) off hand I know I have a SLR Churchill (01) no draw issues yet, and a H Upmann Monarch I believe is an (02) but without reseach I think they are under.



Brian

Way off IMO. Overput is an understatement.(edit to add: If $ 20.00 is the actual price)

 

[massphatness]

T. RA Beli RE 2010(cause I want to try this stick)$13.00
P. Boli Simones RE 07 (OR)$20.00

Respectfully, I believe you're significantly over-valuing the OR Simones. The second release can be had for ~$8/stick based on buying a box of 25. There's no way the OR's are two and a half times as valuable. The above P&T, in my opinion -- and I base this on owning both releases of the Simones -- is fairly even as a straight up transaction.

 

[Kingantz]

T. RA Beli RE 2010(cause I want to try this stick)$13.00
P. Boli Simones RE 07 (OR)$20.00

Respectfully, I believe you're significantly over-valuing the OR Simones. The second release can be had for ~$8/stick based on buying a box of 25. There's no way the OR's are two and a half times as valuable. The above P&T, in my opinion -- and I base this on owning both releases of the Simones -- is fairly even as a straight up transaction.

I believe I paid $16 for the OR Simones; however not sure their actual worth today. The rule I always go by (read it somewhere) is to not add any extra value to a stick (price wise) until after three years, then it's add 5% per year starting with year four. So, if I were to sell an OR Simones today it would still be for the $16 (and no, I smoked my last one about a month ago).

Has anyone else bought any lately or seen sales for them? Give us an idea of what they're going for today.

 

[br174]

Where I got the pricing was just by some random search online. The box was $522. I received these sticks in a box split with some fellow CPers. I did not find it appropriate to ask what he paid for the box because I know he did not stay within the suggested guidelines of our split. So if we are at around $15 or $16 and seeing Greg does not have anymore :laugh: ......is that trade acceptable?

The only reason I put the Boli up is cause I wanted to try the R.A.I figured to trade for a RE, you would need to put an RE and its the only RE I have at this time.It's not a big deal.

Brian

 

[grateful1]

Greg, if you paid $16 for the Simones...then that's what it's worth.

..and the 5%...I play at 3%.

-------------
The point seems to be missed. It would be beneficial to read some of the pinned thread at the top of the forums!
...and here's one from 2002!!
-------------


As for not asking what someone paid for in the box split...well, I would!

..and another thing....when does age start to matter? The boli has 3 years on the RA!

 

[massphatness]

Greg, if you paid $16 for the Simones...then that's what it's worth.

As one of the newer students here, I want to start off by saying I understand the points being made about not over-putting both in terms of number of cigars as well as the value of a single put vs. a single take.

However, when it comes to worth or value, I have to disagree with my New England neighbor. A cigar is not necessarily worth the price one paid for it if any time at all has lapsed between the original purchase and current day. I was involved in this discussion last night at a herf concerning boxes from the mid-90s. Let's say I picked up a box of 92 CoRo's way back in the day for $350-. That box today could easily be sold for three or four times that amount. Are they worth only $350- because that's what I paid for them? I would argue no. They are worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for them. "Worth", particularly on aged, discontinued, and special release sticks, is going to fluctuate over time -- up and down. My opinion only, but I don't feel you can assign a static mathematical formula to the process to guage worth. Some cigars will increase in value significantly over time, even over a short period of time; others, not so much. Earlier this year, for example, I picked up a box of 08 Esplendidos for $480-. I'm currently looking at a box from 1994 that's selling for $1750-. It's worth that much IF (big if) I'm willing to pay that much. Conversely, a box of recent production Punch RS 12's can be had for less than $150- today. HOWEVER, a couple years ago during the "sales", boxes from 2000 were being given away FREE after meeting certain purchase minimums. Are my 00 RS 12s worth zero dollars because that's what I paid for them?

Again, just my opinion, but value & worth have a certain qualitative element to them when we're dealing with some of these special release P&Ts. To me, the Simones for the RA feels fair. I could be (and frequently am) quite wrong, but if the group consensus says allow it -- and the teacher consents -- I say do it.

 

[grateful1]

Greg, if you paid $16 for the Simones...then that's what it's worth.

As one of the newer students here, I want to start off by saying I understand the points being made about not over-putting both in terms of number of cigars as well as the value of a single put vs. a single take.

However, when it comes to worth or value, I have to disagree with my New England neighbor. A cigar is not necessarily worth the price one paid for it if any time at all has lapsed between the original purchase and current day. I was involved in this discussion last night at a herf concerning boxes from the mid-90s. Let's say I picked up a box of 92 CoRo's way back in the day for $350-. That box today could easily be sold for three or four times that amount. Are they worth only $350- because that's what I paid for them? I would argue no. They are worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for them. "Worth", particularly on aged, discontinued, and special release sticks, is going to fluctuate over time -- up and down. My opinion only, but I don't feel you can assign a static mathematical formula to the process to guage worth. Some cigars will increase in value significantly over time, even over a short period of time; others, not so much. Earlier this year, for example, I picked up a box of 08 Esplendidos for $480-. I'm currently looking at a box from 1994 that's selling for $1750-. It's worth that much IF (big if) I'm willing to pay that much. Conversely, a box of recent production Punch RS 12's can be had for less than $150- today. HOWEVER, a couple years ago during the "sales", boxes from 2000 were being given away FREE after meeting certain purchase minimums. Are my 00 RS 12s worth zero dollars because that's what I paid for them?

Again, just my opinion, but value & worth have a certain qualitative element to them when we're dealing with some of these special release P&Ts. To me, the Simones for the RA feels fair. I could be (and frequently am) quite wrong, but if the group consensus says allow it -- and the teacher consents -- I say do it.

Worth in relation to him putting or taking it (see..'integrity')

Yes, I have some cigars I paid MSRP for or lower that are now worth more than what I paid. (I also have a few that I overpaid on...and are worth less.
If I were to put it in a pass(as the taker or put'r)...it would be valued(worth) what I paid.

As for the 'free' smokes...I'd smoke them or add them as an extra...and that has been discussed as well!

BTW - the value/worth discussion...it's out there too!


:laugh:




Now...onto the 'Exchange Rate Discussion'!


And yes, you are correct! :thumbs:

 

[Bsneed51]

They are worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for them.

Yes, and no. Cigars have an assigned MSRP, and that is what is used for passes, regardless of the age. I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. Let's say you purchased some Gurkha Titans for $8 a stick, 4 years ago. Now, I wouldn't pay you a nickel for them, nor would most people, so does that make their "worth" $0? For pass purposes they are worth $8. No mark up, no mark down.

In the free marketplace some cigars may increase significantly in value, as they probably should. Some do not. However for the purposes of passes here on CP, I think the same rules apply as they do for sells/box splits/etc. The price you paid, is the price you can sell them/trade them for. If you have an $8 cigar that you feel is worth $15 because of age, rarity, quality, etc. you're best off hanging on to it, unless you just want to be generous and put it in a pass for others to enjoy.

As with all things related to a pass, the final decision is that of the pass host as long as he isn't pull any funny shenanigans.

 

[Kid Montana]

Damn, I love reading this discussion. Its like an interesting class discussion where everybody has relatively valid points, well thought out, non-antagonistic... good reading. :thumbs:

 

[br174]

I spoke with my good friend and graciously asked what the cost of the Boli Simoenes was and he said $700 for a cab of 50.

Brian

 

[Kingantz]

I spoke with my good friend and graciously asked what the cost of the Boli Simoenes was and he said $700 for a cab of 50.

Brian

I'm in!!

:laugh:

 

[grateful1]

(600x50) + (1200x25) or 2000x25

 

[massphatness]

They are worth whatever someone else is willing to pay for them.

Yes, and no. Cigars have an assigned MSRP, and that is what is used for passes, regardless of the age. I'm going to play devil's advocate here for a second. Let's say you purchased some Gurkha Titans for $8 a stick, 4 years ago. Now, I wouldn't pay you a nickel for them, nor would most people, so does that make their "worth" $0? For pass purposes they are worth $8. No mark up, no mark down.

In the free marketplace some cigars may increase significantly in value, as they probably should. Some do not. However for the purposes of passes here on CP, I think the same rules apply as they do for sells/box splits/etc. The price you paid, is the price you can sell them/trade them for. If you have an $8 cigar that you feel is worth $15 because of age, rarity, quality, etc. you're best off hanging on to it, unless you just want to be generous and put it in a pass for others to enjoy.

As with all things related to a pass, the final decision is that of the pass host as long as he isn't pull any funny shenanigans.

WAIT A MINUTE! Are you telling me my Ghurka Titan's aren't worth the price of postage?! Well there goes my whole cigars as an investment strategy! :laugh:

Seriously though, I completely understand the rule as it relates to how cigars are valued. I just find the rule to be flawed to my way of thinking, although I will absolutely follow it. And while this may have been discussed previously, it's never a bad thing to have some thoughtful, well-reasoned debate on the matter. I find it instructive and informative. Hopefully others see this as a positive exchange of ideas and opinions, and I appreciate the even-handedness with which the conversation has taken place (particularly in light of my being one of the new kids in town).