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Cohibin's Cohiba

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IMO, stealing is stealing, no matter who's doing it or who they are doing it from. Personally the "eye for an eye" approach is not a real moral way to go about doing things. But, that is different for everyone and who am I to judge?
 
PuroBrat said:
. . . Furthermore, is stealing a cuban cigar in cuba any more of a crime than an American Citizen Buying a cuban cigar? Maybe it is, I don't know ???
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I thought this was a good point, yet no one seems to be addressing it.

Both acts are criminal. But trading with the enemy is a felony, while stealing cigars may only be a misdemeanor (depending on the total value stolen).
 
None of that still will stop me or moralize the issue for me. Bottom line, Fidel gets lots of revenews from it and he owns most of it. By Spaing taking part on it they take a position to help the thief/dictatorship thus they too have their hands dirty in the issue. The people being exploided and paid peanuts are cubans so screw them. Spain is cashing in the dirty deal so they can take a hike. Besides, they take into account this loses in the yearly production #s. The quota is around 200 cigars a day right now for a roller. Believe me, most people are ok with buying stolen cigars from Fidel, I'm for sure one of them.
 
Matt R said:
IMO, stealing is stealing, no matter who's doing it or who they are doing it from. Personally the "eye for an eye" approach is not a real moral way to go about doing things. But, that is different for everyone and who am I to judge?
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If you would've lived it in your skin, or you had been affected by that regime, maybe you wouldn't say that. It's ez to moralize it and give an opinion so correct from a comfortable perspective. With Castro the only pay back you'll get is using the eye-for-an-eye policy. In good terms you'll get you ass kick over and over again.
It's hard for me to believe that there are people here taking a deffensive stand towards Castro. Well, guess everybody has an opinion. Not too many cuban nationals in this forum I assume.
Stealing from a thief is ok in my eyes. It's the old saying "ladron que roba ladron tiene 1000 años de perdon.
I see it more like the job of a Repo's guy. They steal back what people stole, yet it is legal and a reputable moral, well paid job.
 
lbrief said:
PuroBrat said:
. . . Furthermore, is stealing a cuban cigar in cuba any more of a crime than an American Citizen Buying a cuban cigar? Maybe it is, I don't know ???
Click to expand...
I thought this was a good point, yet no one seems to be addressing it.

Both acts are criminal. But trading with the enemy is a felony, while stealing cigars may only be a misdemeanor (depending on the total value stolen).
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Good point. I guess everybody here who resides in the USA is a felon then, or will be unless they stop smoking Cubans.
 
No, never been in the shoes of a Cuban national, but I have been stolen from before, once even at gunpoint. I did not in turn, steal from those people.
 
Matt R said:
No, never been in the shoes of a Cuban national, but I have been stolen from before, once even at gunpoint. I did not in turn, steal from those people.
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So you wouldn't take back what they bought with whatever they stole from you? Do you know what it is to have your house that you and your familiy paid for and taken away then given to a communist prick? Any idea what it would feel like if the government came around took your business and offered you the position to be an employee of your own business and pay you peanuts while they keep the good revenews? We're not talking asult here or someone stole my car. We are talking about a government, a fongus that has sucked the live out of a country and its people.
Furthermore, let me give you some information which is not readily available to most. Do you know what makes up about 80% of the work force in the fields where the tobacco is cultivated grown and picked? The cuban youth, kids that from the age of 13 are sent to work to the fields 30-45 days of their school years from 6th grade on. In Cuba, ALL schools MUST participate in "escuela al campo" -school to the fields-. My school was sent to the fields for the first time when I was 13 years old. I was sent away from my family along with every other child to barrachs in a "campamento" (camps in the country fields). You lived there for a month or 45 days. There they barely feed you. You have to work since 6 am until 12:30. You get an hour brake to eat then go back to the fields from 1:30 until 4:30 pm. Then the entire campament has an hour to shower before they shut the water down. The aguadores -water people- sometimes go and sometimes don't go to the fields to bring water to the kids. I HAD to drink water from the puddles in the mud left after the machines watered the fields many times. I saw kids cut themselves with machetes, put ash in their eyes, wrap wet towels around their arms for many hours to soften the bone and then brake it so they would send them back to their homes!!
Each school is sent to a different produce. I was filling 50lb potato bags which I couldn't even lift at the age of 13 in a surco that was a mile long under the cuban sun. You have a daily norm which you must reach. They do this by making the oldest kid in the class, ussually the thug kid that has repeated 5 times the same grade to hussle you, slap you and take your food away. They make them "jefes de brigadas" troop supervisor. I remember dropping 20 punds in a month and looking like an anemic kid with every bone in my body showing.
Many schools are sent to the tobacco fields in Pinar Del Rio. That's the most popular choice. This goes on 1 month a year until you reach what's here high school (el pre) 15-18 yrs old. There are no high schools like here in the urban areas where you go in the morning, study then go back home. The few ones like that in Cuba are only for the sons and daughters of the military. The rest, like me, must pick a beca -a school which is built next to the fields in the country side-. You go to class in the am and work in the fields all afternoon, then the shift is changed to work in the am study at night. You can only go back home once a month to your faimily. We are now talking kids of the age of 15-18 no more.
 
Cohibin, I realize that this is a very passionate subject for you, and any other Cuban National. Unfortunately, I am sure you see, you are really the only one here with the exact perspective that you have on the issue. That being said, it might just be a topic that is only going to continue to boil as long as it is discussed. I sympathize with you, on the area of Castro and his rape of the Cuban Population, however, it might be best left at that so as to avoid the controversy.
 
Cohibin said:
So you wouldn't take back what they bought with whatever they stole from you?
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Your initial post contained only the line that I have quoted here. Then you went back and edited in the remaining passionate comments.

My advice, edit them back out. You made a very powerful and persuasive argument with that one original sentence. It’s still not a valid legal argument. I mean you simply cannot take the law into your own hands. But, from a moral/justice perspective I felt it was very persuasive.

When you added the personal/political commentary (valid as it may be) it detracts from your original point. Don’t let your personal emotions affect your arguments. Take a cue from the classic western movies (the guy who is cold and calm wins while the guy who is emotional and who shoots too quickly, lies in the dust).
 
Oh, in case I didn't mentioned, you DO NOT get paid ANYTHING for this work. This is how the revolution demands you support it.
 
Sometimes I edit the stuff because I don't want to offend a good member due to political discussions. After all, you all see what's presented to you and none of it is your fault. I'm glad no one here had to know it like I did and live the in the ****hole like I did. Sorry if I got too passioante. ???
 
The bands on the pipe and the culebra were put on by the roller who made them. I don't know why he chose those. He may just put watever band he has handy on them just to put a band on the cigar. I'm still waiting for Tony B. to smoke those to see what quality they are. Bottom line, those cigars weren't made to be smoked.
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Why were they not made to be smoked? I realize they are "cigar art" in a way, but culebras should be very smokeable, as should the pipes.

The P's my brod banded them when he got to Florida. I got them banded here. I think by now I know pretty much how things transpired and what started it all
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Where did your brother get the bands to put on these cigars?
 
Since when did this discussion start revolving around stealing from Castro?

More importantly... WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL ALIVE?

What a waste of everyone's time and energy. :angry:

horse.gif
 
So, your brother at one time owned the factory he stole the cigars from??

Look, I have no realization of what it would be like to live in a climate like that other than word of mouth or history books. I also have nothing but sympathy for you, your family and the other citizens of Cuba. But, your brother stealing cigars and then your selling them in the US is not having an impact on the revolution, unless of course you are returning the profits to an entity that plans to overthrow the "revolution". My guess the money is going into your pocket. Turning this into a political discussion is pointless. I am not a supporter of Castro or his regime. I hope only the best for the Cuban people. Child labor and pverty are not confined just to Cuba. This is a worldwide problem that with any luck will someday be overcome.
 
Cohibin,

I said I would think on it.........I have. Stealing from someone is still stealing. Granted, Castro is a bad dude. Granted, he is not a just man. Granted, he has abused the power he posseses. BUT, If I were to steal from him, it makes me no better than the guy holding a gun to a cashiers face.

Now, on the other hand........buying Cuban smokes from a reputable dealer.
The dealer acquired them through legal distribution of Habanos out of Cuba. If I decide to take the risk and purchase said cigars, then I am not a thief taking money out of somebody's pocket (I may be a felon breaking the trade embargo, but not a thief).

I have not bought Cubans. The only Cubans I have had were gifted to me. I am interested in trading for some, but my humi does not posess the horsepower to do so. When it does, I will be in on the trades and buys like everyone else. Would I be breaking the law? YES. AND it is the same victimless crime as speeding, rolling through a stop sign, participating in the office football pool, etc. As long as no one is hurt or suffers monetary loss.............. maybe just justifiying and rationalizing. But, if I want them bad enough, and I can limit my exposure, then I'm willing to take the risk.

Soon enough Castro will be dead. How long? I'm not sure. And the future leaders of Cuba and America will kiss and make up. There will be plenty of room in the sandbox for both. Until then.............

(This is a harsh reality that may not sit well, but.........)

You and your countrymen were dealt a very ****ty hand. So were the colonists 225+ years ago. AND after whining, complaining, being subversive, defiance, reproach of greivances, etc.........they simply picked up their rifles and did something about it. Against overwhelming odds, but with a commitment bound in blood, they succeeded.

Cubans have been faced with the same situation for the last 45+ years.........and Cubans, residing in Cuba and elsewhere, have made their choice. I would support the people of Cuba if THEY were to do something about the situation in their homeland. I'd even bet the US government would find tons of hardware to support the effort also. (GITMO is right there on their soil. The Marines and Navy probably have enough land, sea, and air assets to overrun CUBA in a few weeks). But, until CUBANS are willing to die for their OWN freedom, the current situation will continue.

The truth is the truth, and sometimes its not to our liking. I guess that's my Reality Therapy Training at work.

M. Gipson
 
gawntrail said:
I would support the people of Cuba if THEY were to do something about the situation in their homeland. I'd even bet the US government would find tons of hardware to support the effort also. (GITMO is right there on their soil. The Marines and Navy probably have enough land, sea, and air assets to overrun CUBA in a few weeks). But, until CUBANS are willing to die for their OWN freedom, the current situation will continue.
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?? :lookup: ??
They DID do something.
They WERE NOT supported.
Google "Bayof Pigs" for more info ;)
 
vewyphishy said:
More importantly... WHY IS THIS THREAD STILL ALIVE?

What a waste of everyone's time and energy. :angry:

horse.gif
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I thought I was the only one thinkin' this! Why is this moron even still here?? :(
 
gawntrail said:
But, until CUBANS are willing to die for their OWN freedom, the current situation will continue.
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My parents are Cuban and left Cuba sometime in the early sixties. I was born here so to the "Americans" I'm a Cuban. If I went to Cuba, I'd be a Yankee. You see my dilemma. One thing I've never understood is the Cuban people who left, bitching and moaing about everything in Cuba. I'm sorry if I'm about to piss people off, but this is Memorial Day weekend. A weekend in which we honor those who died fighting for the freedoms we have today. These freedoms did not come cheap. I agree 100% with Gawntrail.



As Matt said:
But, your brother stealing cigars and then your selling them in the US is not having an impact on the revolution, unless of course you are returning the profits to an entity that plans to overthrow the "revolution". My guess the money is going into your pocket. Turning this into a political discussion is pointless.
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If you tell me that you are donating your profits to some Free Cuba fund, then ok, I'll give you the Robin Hood act. But if you are th one profiting from this, how is this helping the Cuban people again? Leave the politics out of it.



And just for the record, I have a Grandmother in Cuba. Aunts, Uncles and Cousins. I know the **** they go through because my parents have vistied them each of the past couple of years. To be honest, My parents don't give a rats ass if going over there to see their family helps keep Castro in power. At some point Family is more important than Principle. If my parent's family is better off after the visit, then they don't give a F@#$ about anything else.
 
The discussion currently being had in this thread is informative and interesting to some, if you don't happen to be one of them, don't read it. I would not presume to declair a thread should be dead, if my fellow members are still having a conversation in it. I ain't quite high enough in the Food Chain to assume so much power. ???
 
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