Cohibin's Cohiba

[emodx]

And in case you and others haven't noticed. I've been going out my friggin way to honestly determine in public if there are some identity/authenticity issues with my cigars. You think if I really wanted to scam or rip people off I would go through the trouble of sending my smokes, making the findings public, rationalizing the findings putting myself in contradiction and leting that affect how I portray my auctions which have nothing to do with this forum? Since when do you think I need anybody's approval here to sell something outside of this forum? It's been at all times my consious civic choice to do so, because I do not want to rip people off, not even unintentionally.

Like I said, I don't care what you sell outside this forum. I was under the impression you were trying to sell here. But when you insist on banding the cigars with out knowing what they are, I call bull**** to.

Emo

 

[Cohibin]

Puro, I said something to Cohibin, and not to you. So please mind your own business. No one needs this pot to be stirred. No one called him anything too derogatory. Fake and trolling are not demeaning.  Cohibin, I didn't realize you were selling them at Yahoo exclusively. I was under the impression that you were selling them here. Regardless, this is our site, and if you don't like the way we handle things, you know where the door is at. I am very interested to see what our taste testers have to say, but you make your own bed, so don't be afraid to sleep in it.

Emo

Emo, perhaps they are not to you, but they are too me. I guess insults are a thing of cultural standards. Besides, they were said with the intent to insult and put down so that makes up for any differences.
If you are interested on reading what the testers had to say, go back to the beginning of this topic and read Tony B. and Matt's reports. There are decent people here making it worth staying.
By how you directed yourself to Puro, I can see your take on this. IMO, he didn't deserve that response just because he happened to take a stance and explain the situation in a more favorable light towards me. This is a public forum, and there are good members here making it worth it for me to stay. Your statement of "you know where the door is at" is unecessary. Is this how you treat people who dissagre with you? Just do away with them? Oh, well.

I don't care if you go or stay, but the way you handle yourself makes me question your motives. If you want to stay and contribute to this board, people will call you out on questionable things you say. I appologize if you don't like my straight forward personality. I would never be in a position to tell you to leave. I am way to outspoken to be a "moderator".

Emo

Emo. I do have a short fuse I admit that, but I'm a very respectfull individual here and in person, just because of that short temper. I don't go around being nasty to people, on the contrary, I go OUT of my way to be nice and respectfull SO that I can expect the same in return.
I'm quick to tell it like it is also if someone takes the innitiavie I must say. Guess you can blame me for not being too good at restraining myself when provoked... And I do appreciate the direct approach. I, like you, don't like bs.

 

[Cohibin]

And in case you and others haven't noticed. I've been going out my friggin way to honestly determine in public if there are some identity/authenticity issues with my cigars. You think if I really wanted to scam or rip people off I would go through the trouble of sending my smokes, making the findings public, rationalizing the findings putting myself in contradiction and leting that affect how I portray my auctions which have nothing to do with this forum? Since when do you think I need anybody's approval here to sell something outside of this forum? It's been at all times my consious civic choice to do so, because I do not want to rip people off, not even unintentionally.

Like I said, I don't care what you sell outside this forum. I was under the impression you were trying to sell here. But when you insist on banding the cigars with out knowing what they are, I call bull**** to.

Emo

I thought I could rely on the testers here to tell the blend and properly band them as what they are per their comments. I didn't see any fault on that. By process of elimination at the time they were made, it didn't seem that difficult.
I know where the cigars came from, I've always known they are legit. The issue is what marquee, and I only questioned this because my brother doesn't smoke. He assumed something he shouldn't had, and now I know. But note their authenticity and their origin have never been in question, at least never in my eyes.

 

[Cohibin]

Oh and make no mistakes, I've learned my lesson. No more of this bs unbanded cigars out before boxed EVER. When I go there and pic up my boxes, I'll personally make sure it's all in check, or NOTHING comes back with me.

 

[gawntrail]

True Story:

I got a cigar from my wife's friend's uncle. He is the limo driver for a prominant Mexican businessman. He said he got it on a run to the Cuban consulate in Mexico City in March. According to the uncle this guy smokes boxes of Habano Partagas, Cohiba, and RyJs. He hands them out like pens and often leaves them in the in car humidor for the driver and his security personnel to partake.

The one he gave me happened to be unbanded (the businessman takes the bands off before he puts them into his three finger according to the uncle - he thinks it was a RyJ). Regardless, I torched it right there with him. Triple cap, creamy, great burn, a little hot, but very tasty. Great deep coffee bean color, and the construction was top notch. Aroma was awesome. I enjoyed the stories the uncle told and got to meet a few hired guns for a Mexican heavy hitter. A great, very testosterone ladden afternoon.

Moral of the story.......I didn't give a rat's ass what band it may or may not have had on it. To ME, it doesn't matter because regardless of the band, I smoked it and it was good. Now, if he wanted to sell it to me with some story (valid or not) about what band it did, or should, or might, or mistakingly had, or whatever...... it would simply trigger the 'no thanks' response from the cynical part of me.

Cohibin, if you are genuinely trying to figure out the blend, good luck. I have no basis to NOT accept you at face value. Yes, you defended yourself, and no people should not pop off. BUT............with the amount of conterfeiting that goes on with Habanos........What did you expect? I have no horse in this race (but if you'd like to send me one of those smokes in question, the addy is in my profile) so my opinion is just that, an opinion.

I think, the advice offered about leaving them unbanded sounds pretty good. Whatever the cigars bring at Yahoo on their own merit is what they are worth........but, injecting false value by banding, rebanding, or somehow aligning them with a known commodity smacks of deception and greed. Let those smokes stand on their own merit. Take the high road my man, the air is cleaner and the company is more enjoyable.

M. Gipson

 

[dixieland_conjunction]

I witness equestrian assualt...

 

[gawntrail]

I witness equestrian assualt...

equistrian assault??

mounting a horse without its permission?

slapping a WNBA player?

punching Hillary?

talking dirty to a Kentucky Derby entry?

jocky tossing in the local redneck bar?

offering a jocky a french fry?

What gives?

M. Gipson ???

 

[PuroBrat]

LOL

 

[Cohibin]

Gawntrail I see it the same way. I can't discard the fact that there was a misidentity on my brod's behalf and that raised very bad flags, so it was a bad start, but If you took a legit $100 bill out of the official press before it got bundled, would it lose it's value? would it not be worth $100 because you didn't aquire it from a bank? In a way, I apply the same idea to my cigars. I only want to reband at this point the oddities with my own invented labels. I think a cigar without a band doesn't look complete, so I want them to have a band of some kind. It's an aesthetics issue for me.
I guess from my perspective I fail to see in a way the difficult marketplace from the eyes of those who don't know the facts of my cigars as I obviously do. I know there are many people in Cuba in the counterfit business and the hit-once never see you again kind of deal, and unfortunatly, tourists are their primary targets, so I see the need for the group protection. But you can't denny someone the benefit of the doubt. In a way those people have made it difficult for me. Getting boxes out of factory is rather ez. Things are very tough in Cuba, the custodian has to eat, the roller wants a new pair of Adidas so forth and so on. In fact, cuban people depend in the black market and the $dollar to survive in a daily basis, and are very willing to go the extra mile for the $.

 

[gawntrail]

Gawntrail I see it the same way.

But you can't denny someone the benefit of the doubt. In a way those people have made it difficult for me. Getting boxes out of factory is rather ez. Things are very tough in Cuba, the custodian has to eat, the roller wants a new pair of Adidas so forth and so on. In fact, cuban people depend in the black market and the $dollar to survive in a daily basis, and are very willing to go the extra mile for the $.

I can't see this thing from that perspective. I ran my own business for 8 years. I understand people got to eat, and people got to pay the rent. But, not at my expense. Sorry, but, I just don't go for that.

I have guys approach me everyday with their trunks open and telling me half off......but my scruples and conscience won't let me. I feel for those rollers like the next guy, but I will not, and refuse to be a part of taking money out of somebody's pocket. Sneaking a box out the back door is the same as robbing it out of the front.

And a hundred dollar bill doesn't need a band to identify it.

Sorry, for the **** sandwich Cohibin. I just call them like I see them.

Smells like ****, looks like ****, and feels like ****........guess what...........its probably ****.

M. Gipson

 

[PuroBrat]

I agree with you under normal circumstances Gawntrail, it is wrong to steal, period. And can be very costly for employers and therefore end up costing everyone essentually

However, let us take a look at who is loosing money here...

Unless I am wrong, the Cuban Government is loosing a few bucks if you steal a cigar off the roller's table. So somebody took a little bit from Fidel. Normally I would not try to justify this behaviour for anybody. But we are talking about an oppressor who from day to day sets out to take food out of the mouths of those he is supposed to govern for. I have a hard time feeling sorry for Castro et all. IF there are citizens of Cuba (members of the oppressed people of that land) who loose money because of this theft, then I will also condemn it, but as I see it, Only Castro looses, and I have about as much problem with that, as I do the UN freezing the assets of Bin Laden. :angry:

Furthermore, is stealing a cuban cigar in cuba any more of a crime than an American Citizen Buying a cuban cigar? Maybe it is, I don't know ???

 

[Cohibin]

Gawntrail I see it the same way.

But you can't denny someone the benefit of the doubt. In a way those people have made it difficult for me. Getting boxes out of factory is rather ez. Things are very tough in Cuba, the custodian has to eat, the roller wants a new pair of Adidas so forth and so on. In fact, cuban people depend in the black market and the $dollar to survive in a daily basis, and are very willing to go the extra mile for the $.

I can't see this thing from that perspective. I ran my own business for 8 years. I understand people got to eat, and people got to pay the rent. But, not at my expense. Sorry, but, I just don't go for that.

I have guys approach me everyday with their trunks open and telling me half off......but my scruples and conscience won't let me. I feel for those rollers like the next guy, but I will not, and refuse to be a part of taking money out of somebody's pocket. Sneaking a box out the back door is the same as robbing it out of the front.

And a hundred dollar bill doesn't need a band to identify it.

Sorry, for the **** sandwich Cohibin. I just call them like I see them.

Smells like ****, looks like ****, and feels like ****........guess what...........its probably ****.

M. Gipson

Gawntrail, you may not realize it, but by your statement you are comparing apples to screws. Fidel is not an "honest" business man like yourself, so please do yourself a favor and don't identify with him in any way. He is the unvarying theif of the Cuban people. The biggest thief of the poor country. I for one thing lost my house when I left, I wasn't allowed to give it to my mother who stayed behind leaving on an apt almost in ruins. Instead, they inventoried all my things, even the lightbulbs and utencils (NO I'M NOT ****TING YOU), and checked them again 3 days before they sealed my house and kicked me out. Had a single lightbulb or fork been missing, I would've had to replace it before I could leave the country. After I left, my house was made the property of the "revolution" and promptly given to an individual from the army. I've now brought to the states my mother and my brother legaly. The apartment that was owned by my mother is now ocuppied by my other brother who couldn't come. Guess what? If he ever becomes involved legaly in the process of leaving the country, he would first have to pay the "revolution" ALL the rent the government estimates is owned in dollars from the time the original owner (my mother) left Cuba, to the day he can leave the country!! My brother was the appointed heir by my mom, yet in Cuba nothing is yours. It's all the property of the revolution and I mean AAAAAAALLLLL.
Furthermore, in case you don't know the history behind it all, Fidel came about after the revolutionary triumph (1959) and took, by gun point, over ALL privately-owned business and made them the property of the revolution just because he saw fit. In that shuffle, my grandfather's woodshop was taken away from him and in turn, he was offered the opportunity to become an EMPLOYEE of the business that was HIS!!! That being said, know this, I have no problem stealing, taking, robbing anything from Fidel and his revolution. I have no moral constrains, not one scrupulous feeling, no remorse about it, and I will take any chance and opportunity I have to steal back from him. By doing this I do 2 benefitial things. 1-Every cigar I take from him, is a cigar he won't sell and money he won't pocket. 2-Every dollar I pay to the person taking them out benefits that person directly and improves their lifes in a very big way.
I won't become enfuriated with you over this because I understand you're probably not a Cuban national and only perceived the "stealing" part of it and translated it into you values learned from your experiences within your country, thus from that perspective I also would see it as something wrong and reprehensive. I for one thing, WOULD NEVER, steal from anyone here in the states or any other just country.
Fidel pays peanuts to the rollers and workers of his tobacco business. Cigar factories are like sweatshops or worse. This turns into big profits for him. There are many more reasons why I, and many other Cubans, would approve of stealing from an assassin and tyrant dictator like him, but you should be able to get the idea from what I've stated above.

 

[moki]

C'mon Emo, get a clue. And Phishy too for that matter. The guy never once offered these cigars for sale here. He had them on auction, but NEVER EVER offered to sell them to anyone on CP. Yet he has been under constant attack by a select few who think they may be the WHOLE friggin Police Department in our self policing society. I believe if you were treated as he has been, you may also have lashed out a time or two.

Actually PB, he did offer them for sale... on Yahoo, and on a couple of other web boards. I do think it matters if the cigars were misrepresented by him for sale anywhere, not just here. And who knows, had he not gotten a hard time, he might have offered them for sale here too -- I don't know, I'm not a mind reader.

I'm not bashing the guy, but somethings definitely amiss here. We don't know who put the Cohiba bands on these cigars (especially the Culebras and the pipes) but we do know it's a rather confusing, convoluted story, and Cohibin apparently was thinking about re-banding the cigars are HdM's -- or putting some other band on them.

I think it's true he's gotten a hard time here, but I think at least some of that he brought on himself. The thing is, he was upfront in saying he wasn't that cigar savvy, but hasn't really been listening to what people who are cigar savvy have said to him.

I think Cohibin believes everything he's saying; I don't think he's lying about his story. I do think that he may have been mislead, though, and doesn't seem to want to do anything to stop the madness (saying he wants to re-band the cigars just isn't right). I think his inexperience may be at play here; he doesn't realize that you should not just re-band cigars to be whatever you think they should be.

 

[moki]

Cohibin: if you don't mind, could you clear something up for me?

Who put the Cohiba bands on these cigars (especially the Culebras and pipes)? Was it you? Was it your brother? Was it the guy in Cuba who rolled the cigars?

 

[gawntrail]

PuroBrat and Cohibin,

I'm gonna think on this one before I respond. I want to do a little research and align my thoughts, values, beliefs, and opinions against what I find out.

M. Gipson

 

[Cohibin]

Moki. I never offered them for sale on any other boards. The same members who went out of their way to bash posted the URLs. The bands on the pipe and the culebra were put on by the roller who made them. I don't know why he chose those. He may just put watever band he has handy on them just to put a band on the cigar. I'm still waiting for Tony B. to smoke those to see what quality they are. Bottom line, those cigars weren't made to be smoked. Next time I'll ask him to please keep them bandless and I will add a band I will create here (like some houses do). That unless he can garantee me that he will make them with the specific blend of the brand (which I would then verify with memebers here by sending the smokes before selling).
The P's my brod banded them when he got to Florida. I got them banded here. I think by now I know pretty much how things transpired and what started it all. The maduro P's he new they were EL's because of the dark wrapper and legit because obviously they came out of production, but he assumed wrong on the blend. Thus the whole dilema. I guess for him it didn't make a difference (not a smoker) if it was Cohiba Hym or Ps since he knew they were legit and top quality. This can't be if I intend on selling anything and I already told him. In the future, an "x" roller will be my contact for production sticks and I plan to speak to her personally to make sure we understand each other very very clearly.

 

[Matt R]

Habanos SA is now only partially owned by the government, the other part being a private Spanish company, Altadis. So, it's only partially OK to steal from them.

 

[PuroBrat]

If Altadis' bottom line will be effected by the theft of cigars off the rolling table, then I will no longer be able to condone that theft.

Castro...steal the gold fillings from his teeth or whatever else he has, I will find no fault. But Altadis is a private company and stealing from them is wrong. ???

Damn Matt, you just had to Muddy the water, didn't you ??? Thanks for setting me straight

 

[Matt R]

Even stealing from the Cuban government affects the bottomline. Whether it's right or wrong is irrelevant. Prices will be driven by the loss of product to theft and by the loss of profit to counterfeiters.

 

[PuroBrat]

True, good point.

I can see this in connection with the Pyramides in question. However, it seams to me, the Pipes and the Culebras might be a whole different issue. Since they are not a normal Habanos SA production product, then the theft involved would have been the Tobacco leaves the roller used to make them from. I may be way off here, but if a roller steals tobacco leaves from the factory and uses them to roll oddity smokes, then what is stolen is the raw materials, not the finished product. If that is the case, is he stealing from Altadis, or just from Fidel? I am such a neophite in this area, I wish to get a better understanding of how the cuban cigar manufacturing really effects the cuban citizens vs how it effects the Cuban Government.