Cigar Pass Insurance

[mmburtch]

I think most of us like everyone who buys insurance hopes to never use it. As it stands, CPI couldn't replace any of the last few passes run. Part of that stems from the level of pass that we were running when we joined. For whatever reason, there just haven't been many moderately priced passes lately.

Converting the reserve to a monetary fund is probably the best course of action at this point. Of course that brings up the question of membership premium. $60 wouldn't be unreasonable for some of the recent passes, but that's rather high for someone wanting to run a beginner pass.

The reserve should probably be sold, a PP account or something like it should be set up so new applicants can deposit directly to the fund and an entry fee should be set.

CPI has a three member board, I think it would be best if they presented the members with a proposal for an up/down vote. Design by committee just doesn't work, especially with a bunch of opinionated SOBs like us.

 

[emodx]

lmao@ opinionated SOBs. I am more than willing to talk to Geldor/Shadow to debate the PRO's and CON's of different ways forward. But I really really really (yes I went there) feel that there should be some open discussion first. I want to avoid a top down decision as CPI belongs to the community.

-E

 

[mmburtch]

lmao@ opinionated SOBs. I am more than willing to talk to Geldor/Shadow to debate the PRO's and CON's of different ways forward. But I really really really (yes I went there) feel that there should be some open discussion first. I want to avoid a top down decision as CPI belongs to the community.

-E

Not suggesting a lack of input/debate, but that the results of that discussion be presented as a "yes/no", not a "how about this."







Edit: Over use of the shift key.

 

[BlindedByScience]

lmao@ opinionated SOBs......

Come on, emo.....you've been around a long time, much longer that I have. You were one of the OG's, the original crew that made CP what it is today. From what I can see, all you're being asked for is some open discussion and to follow the rules we all abide by. All Matt's suggesting is that the CPI board have some discussion and make some recommendations. Not asking to limit discussion, just asking the board to think it over.

What you're coming back with is a lot of attitude, both here and in your pass thread. Doesn't set a good example, IMHO. I expected better, honestly.

B.B.S.

 

[emodx]

lmao@ opinionated SOBs. I am more than willing to talk to Geldor/Shadow to debate the PRO's and CON's of different ways forward. But I really really really (yes I went there) feel that there should be some open discussion first. I want to avoid a top down decision as CPI belongs to the community.

-E

Not suggesting a lack of input/debate, but that the results of that discussion be presented as a "yes/no", not a "how about this."







Edit: Over use of the shift key.

Agreed with the yes/no. Kinda hoping for some "how about this" before going into discussions.

-E

 

[Kingantz]

Sell 'em and purchase stock in The Leaf Fund.

 

[emodx]

lmao@ opinionated SOBs......

Come on, emo.....you've been around a long time, much longer that I have. You were one of the OG's, the original crew that made CP what it is today. From what I can see, all you're being asked for is some open discussion and to follow the rules we all abide by. All Matt's suggesting is that the CPI board have some discussion and make some recommendations. Not asking to limit discussion, just asking the board to think it over.

What you're coming back with is a lot of attitude, both here and in your pass thread. Doesn't set a good example, IMHO. I expected better, honestly.

B.B.S.

Yeah, sorry bout the 'tude. But I have down off my soap box and am trying to kind of get some good ideas out there. I'm not so sure this is as cut and dry as it looks. But hell, what do I know, I have been away from the board so long that maybe it is that black and white.

-E

 

[emodx]

So far the ideas that have been floated are:

1. Keep the current system.

2. Sell off the cigars and use the money for a CPI slush fund.

3. Fire Emo and go with #1 or #2

4. Perhaps there should be 2 systems in place depending on what your trading/passing tendencies are.

I think they are all doable. As far as #2 goes, I kind of lean towards this. But at what point to you start the entry fee? Is it a flat rate, or can you buy in at different protection levels? Anyone have input?

-E

 

[JHolmes763]

I'm not in CPI, so this is just an opinionated SOBs thoughts that carry no weight , but would a one-time payment into a slush fund really work out to cover losses in the long run? I guess so long as enough new people buy in to the system between losses, it would, but is that likely? Insurance works because a large group of people make regular payments into the system to cover payouts. One time payments require a constant influx of new folks to cover losses.

Just throwing things out there for open discussion. Maybe there's a better, safer way for the whole thing to be organized.

Disregard as necessary.

 

[emodx]

I'm not in CPI, so this is just an opinionated SOBs thoughts that carry no weight , but would a one-time payment into a slush fund really work out to cover losses in the long run? I guess so long as enough new people buy in to the system between losses, it would, but is that likely? Insurance works because a large group of people make regular payments into the system to cover payouts. One time payments require a constant influx of new folks to cover losses.

Just throwing things out there for open discussion. Maybe there's a better, safer way for the whole thing to be organized.

Disregard as necessary.

This does have merit. Perhaps a more active CPI administrator would be able to recruit new members. CPI was never intended to be able to cover high end passes. The only way for CPI to be able to cover a high end pass in the event of a total loss is to liquidate some or all of the cigars in CPI. If there was a loss of a high end pass I would fully support liquidating the fund to be able to make a payout. I'd even go as far as auctioning a couple of my collector cigars to help make payment.

Perhaps if we continue with holding cigars it is time to up the ante for CPI. This could be done by:

1. Liquidating some of the lower end cigars for the purchase of higher end cigars.
2. Set a minimum cigar value for future members. Say, instead of 3-4 middle cigars payment would be 1 $20 cigar or 2 $10 cigars.
3. Perhaps a cap needs to be put into place fro replacing lost cigars. Maybe limit it to 30 cigars. If someone wants increased coverage they could send in additional coverage money/cigars.
4, I am not a fan of using Paypal as a clearing account. I have had my Paypal account hacked twice. It is a huge hassle to recover the money. Not to mention the digital footprints.

Good point John.

-E

 

[BlindedByScience]

Other thought is that many passes of late have cigars whose value goes into hundreds of dollars. Plus, the rarity factor. How would you insure a Padron Millenium? An OR Anejo (a real one... )...? An OpusX maddie...?? No dis to the guys that contributed to this fund with sticks, but honestly there are not many Perdomo's being passed these days.....:whistling:

JH is right, insurance requires regular payments to keep the pool active and liquid. I'd suspect that if the current CPI inventory were sold at fair prices, covering just one high end pass would wipe the fund out.

Maybe liquidating the sticks and putting the proceeds into a PheyPal account is the way to go. Not sure what the answer is....just tossing some ideas out. I'm anxious to hear what other members have to say.

Edited to add - I posted before I saw Emo's post. I have no love of PheyPal, just thinking out loud. Carry on.....

 

[BigJake6904]

In rare cases, Rod permits auctions.

Maybe auctioning off the cigars by placing them in 5ers (while setting a minimum value of the actual MSRP of the sticks) would be the best way to initially build the fund so that one pass wouldn't liquidate it?

 

[emodx]

In rare cases, Rod permits auctions.

Maybe auctioning off the cigars by placing them in 5ers (while setting a minimum value of the actual MSRP of the sticks) would be the best way to initially build the fund so that one pass wouldn't liquidate it?

I agree with this in theory, But even by doing this, one pass still has the ability to decimate CPI. If CPI is going to be the end all be all, then there needs to an increase in membership. If there is a cap on payout then CPI may be fat, dumb, and happy at the point it is at now. I do know that id CPI is to grow at all we should look at what is accepted and liquidate some of the cigar. It's been a good while since I have done any arrangement of the cigars. But I think we are close to being at capacity. I could probably fit one more box and about 50 more singles in plastic baggies. Thinning out some of the cigars and either replacing with cash or purchasing higher end cigars is the way to go.

-E

 

[insight]

Tom honestly this is one of the reasons i am pondering not running the lesson pass again. The jerk off behavior makes,e very anxious of putting my sticks at risk and cpi just doesnt currently match up to some of the stuff in the passes. I would rather get less money than a ton of ow value sticks if the pass got destroyed or lost.

 

[MadMonk]

Does CPI require that all pass participants contribute? To me, it is reasonable to require some sort of "donation" if you want to participate in passes.

I think there would be less pain receiving money than lower end sticks, but that is my preference.

Insured Bank Deposit, earning interest. Withdrawing the money would require more than one signature.

 

[whopper]

Board
EmoDx
Shadow
Geldor

Members
JoeM
Paragod
Gr8full2day
Hbooker
Vikder
RobbMT
Big Slim JR
Vern
Rod
Texcigar
Allofus123
Bobbyson1a
Geldor
Tremayne
Rncen
TexasAggie
BrownDevil
RicMac
Joe (F.)
Mr. Jingles
CalixEros
Diesel Grinch
Blue Dragon
Swissy
Gonz
Tigger
SaxJazzMan
EnerJay
Mmburtch
Boogs34
Bilder
Jonesy
Insight
Lurch
Smellysell
Kingantz
Ernie111
Khari
MX
Seadub
Gregor22
BigJake6904

If anyone thinks there is an error please post it publicly so that we can figure it out.

-E

Myself and GAWL should be on the member list. Look's like you lost us when you added BigJake6904.

 

[emodx]

IGARS
ARISTOFF BELI
ASHTON CAB BELI
ASHTON CHURCHILL
ASHTON VSG CORONA
ASTRAL CHURCHILL
AVO #2 MADURO
AVO XO ROTHSCHILD
BACCARAT THE GAME ROTHSCHILD
BIG BUTT CHURCHILL
BOLIVAR BELICOSO FINO (I)
BOLIVAR GOLD MEDAL 07 (I)
BOLIVAR ROYAL CORONA 01(I)
BRAZILIA GOL
BRAZILIA PIRANHA
BRAZILIA BELI
CABAIGUAN BELICOSO
CAMACHO SLR
CAMACHO JAMASTRAN TORO
CAMACHO TRIPLE MADURO ROBUSTO
CAO ANNI MADURO CORONA
CAO ANNI MADURO TUBO
CAO ANNI EXTREME TORPEDO
CAO GOLD ROBUSTO
CAO SOPRANOS ROBUSTO
CARMELLO ROBUSTO
CARMELLO ROBUSTO
CASA FUENTE CORONA GORDA
COHIBA EV
COHIBA CHURCHILL
COHIBA SIG II
COHIBA SIG III NOV 05
CONNIE #30
CUABA EXLUSIVOS(I)
CUABA GENEROSAS(I)
CUESTA REY CENTENARIO BELI
CUESTA REY CENTENARIO PYRAMID NO. 9
CUESTA REY STAMFORD CAMEROON RESERVE #9
CUPIDO CRIOLLO ROBUSTO
CUSANO COROJO
DIAMOND CROWN #9 PYRAMIDE
DIPLOMATICOS #4 (I)
DON PEPIN BLUE DELICIAS
DON THOMAS SPECIAL EDITION
DUNHILL ALTAMIRAS TUBO
ERDM ROBUSTO LARGA
ERDM TORO
FELIPE GREGORIO PETRUS CORONA
FLOR DE ALLONES #5 ESPECIALES
FLOR DE ALLONES #5 ESPECIALES
FLOR DE ALLONES #5 ESPECIALES
FONSECA MIT ZEDER
FUENTE DON CARLOS #3
FUENTE 858M
FUENTE DOUBLE CHATEAU FUENTE
FUENTE ROTHSCHILD
GRAN HABANO COROJO # 5
GRAYCLIFF EXPRESSO
GURKHA DOBLE MADURO TORO
GURKHA EXPEDITION TORO
GURKHA LEGEND CHURCHILL MAD
GURKHA LEGEND PERFECTO
GURKHA LEGEND PERFECTO
GURKHA PERFECTO
GURKA REGENT TORP
HAVANA CLASSICO TORO
HDM (OLD OLD OLD)
HDM DARK SUMATRA TORO
HDM EXCALIBER
HDM ROTHSCHILD
H UPMANN ROBUSTO
H UPMANN 2000 BELI
H UPMANN 2000 CEDAR
H UPMANN MAG 46 MAY 06
HEMI BEST SELLER
HEMI SS
HEMI SS
HEMI SS
HEMI SS
HEMI SIGNATURE
HEMI SIGNATURE
HENDRIK KELNER SECOND CHURCHILL
HUGO CASSAR DIAMOND CHURCHILL
H UPMANN GRANDE MADURO
INDIAN TABAC NATURAL FUERTE TORO
INDIAN TABAC SUPER FUERTE TORO MADURO
INDIAN TABAC LIMITED RESERVE TORO CANDELA
JOSE MARTI CHURCHILL TUBOS
JOSE PIEDRA PETITE CORONA (I)
JOY DE NIC LANCERO
JR ALT
JUAN LOPEZ PC(I)
LA AROMA DE CUBA BELICOSO
LA AURORA CAMEROON EDICION 1903
LA AURORA MADURO ROBUSTO
LA ESCEPCION III ZAVALLA
LA ESTRELLA CUBANA
LA FINCA TORO
LA FLOR DOMINICANA LIGERO
LA FLOR DOMINICANA DL 660
LA FLOR DOMINICANA DL
LA FLOR DOMINICANA DL LANCERO
LA FLOR DOMINICANA FACTORY PRSS II
LA GRLORIA CUBANA NATURAL
LA GLORIA CUBANA SERIE R TORO
LA GLORIA CUBANA SERIE R LIMITADA
LA UNICA BELICOSO #3
LA VIEJA HABANA CEDAR
LEON JIMINEZ CHURCHILL
LONE WOLD CHURCHILL
LONE WOLF CHURCHILL
MACANUDO POTOFINO TUBO
MARIA MANCINI DEGAULLE
MONTESINO BELI 2002
MONTESINO SUPER BELI
MONTESINO SUPER BELI
MONTE #2
MONTE #444
MONTE JOYITA (I)
MONTE #5 (I)
MONTE #5 (I)
OLIVA FLOR DE OLIVA
OLIVA GRAND CAMEROON BELI
OLIVA O BLACK PYRAMIDE
OLIA O CLASSIC TORO
OLIVEROS BELI
ONYX MINI BELI
OPUS X FUENTE FUENTE
OPUS X MINI BELICOSO
OPUS X SUPER BELICOSO
PADRON ANNIVERSARIO NATURAL
PADRON 1926 No. 35 MADURO
PADRON 2000
PADRON 2000 MADURO
PADRON 3000 MADURO
PARTAGAS BLACK ROBUSTO
PARTAGAS BLACK ROBUSTO
PARTAGAS CIFUENTES SEPTIEMBRE
PARTAGAS CORONA
PARTAGAS PERFECTO
PARTAGAS PERFECTO
PARTAGAS TPC 98(I)
PARTAGAS TUBO (I)
PARTAGAS 898V 98(I)
PERDOMO CUBAN PAREJO EPICURE MADURO
PERDOMO ESV CORONA NAT
PERDOMO ESV ROBUSTO MADURO
PERDOMO LA TRADICION RED LABEL
PERDOMO LA TRADICION RED LABEL #4
PERDOMO LA TRADICION EXCLUSIVO
PERDOMO LA TRADICION EXCLUSIV
PERDOMO LA TRADICION CHAMPAGNE EPICURE
PERDOMO LOT 23 ROBUSTO
PERDOMO THE CIGAR BELI
PUROS INDIOS TORO
PUNCH RARE COROJO CORONA
PUNCH CHURCHILL (I)
PUNCH PUNCH (I)
RAFAEL GONZALEZ LONSDALE (I)
RASS 09/04 (I)
RP CONNECTICUT TORO
RP CUBAN BLEND MINI BELI
RP DECADE CORONA
RP OLDE WORLD RESERVE
RP VINTAGE 1990 TORP
RP VINTAGE 1990 BOX PRESS TORO
RP VINTAGE 1990 6X60
RP VINTAGE 1992 BOX PRESS TORO
RP VINTAGE 1992 ROBUSTO
ROMEO Y JULIETA CORONA (I)
ROMEO JULIETA GRAND BELI
ROMEO JULIETA CEDROS #2
ROMEO JULIETA ROTHSCHILD
ROMEO JULIETA SHORT CHURCHILL
QUAY DORSAY CGRAN CORONA (I)
SANCHO PANZA DOUBLE MADURO CORONA
SANCHO PANZA DOUBLE MADURO ROTHSCHILD
SAN CRISTOBAL CLASSICO
SAN CRISTOBAL LA PUNTA (I)
SLR PC (I)
SLR SERIE A (I)
SOSA BELI
TATUALE EXCLUSIVO LADO OCCIDENTAL
TATUAJE RESERVA J21
TEAMO VINTAGE 98 ROBUSTO
TEMPLE HALL CORONA
THOMAS HINDS VINTAGE ROTHSCHILD
THOMAS HINDS VINTAGE ROTHSCHILD
TORANO SIG CORONA GORDA
TORANO GOLD PYRAMIDE
TORANO GOLD TORO
TORANO SILVER ROBUSTO
TORANO SILVER ROBUSTO
TORANO SILVER TRUMPET
TRILOGY COROJO
TRINIDAD TTT TORO
VEGAS ROBAINA FAMILIAR OCT 01(I)
VEGAS ROBAINA FAMOSAS(I)
VICTOR SINCLAIR SERIES 55 COROJO
601 CHURCHILL
601 PYRAMIDE



Board
EmoDx
Shadow
Geldor

Members
JoeM
Paragod
Gr8full2day
Hbooker
Vikder
RobbMT
Big Slim JR
Vern
Rod
Texcigar
Allofus123
Bobbyson1a
Geldor
Tremayne
Rncen
TexasAggie
BrownDevil
RicMac
Joe (F.)
Mr. Jingles
CalixEros
Diesel Grinch
Blue Dragon
Swissy
Gonz
Tigger
SaxJazzMan
EnerJay
Mmburtch
Boogs34
Bilder
Jonesy
Insight
Lurch
Smellysell
Kingantz
Ernie111
Khari
MX
Seadub
Gregor22
Whopper
Gaul
BigJake6904

 

[emodx]

I sent a PM to Bill and John. Bill hasn't logged in for three years so it may be a few days before I hear back from him.

-E

 

[geldor1]

I received the PM and came to read.

Long day and I can't think straight right now. Will need to revisit this after I get some sleep.

 

[geldor1]

After some sleep, a couple of cups of French Press and taking the Harley out for a spin, here are some of my thoughts.

I don't think this should be just the board vote. My feelings are that every CPI participant that is currently active on the board (now, what defines active may be a sticky subject) should get to vote on the outcome and majority rules.

If it comes down to a liquidation sale, the money collected needs to be kept in some sort of interest bearing account. The current money received from the sale would be the financial reserves of the fund.

If a pass starter wants to invoke CPI, then they need to state an opening pass value and pay a set fee based on the starting value. The fee could be a percentage of the value of the sticks and the value would have to be verified before the start of the pass. If something were to happen to the pass along the way, then CPI would pay the original value to the owner of the pass.

I don’t feel that the pass participants need to pony up any money as the pass owner is the one out the sticks and would collect the insurance money.

The CPI reserve would continue to grow with every pass that is insured and finishes without issue.