Bolivar Coronas

[kab55]

I smoke Boli Coronas almost daily, and the bands on those are not right. Even under 4X magnification, the red lines does not go through the coins. Some of the red does show through the small gold triangles though. Also the red seems to pronounced in color, on mine the red is much more less pronounced. I'd say yours are fake, but the taste should be a dead givaway if you know what they normally taste like.

 

[Schwiering]

Is it the consensus that if the red lines show through the gold coins on the band then one should worry about them being fake? I have read and reread this thread and have seen several pictures of bands posted that have lines under the coins and I can't seem to find a final answer. It seems that it just depends on the printing run of the bands. I just want to make sure that I understand everything. Thanks.

 

[alexgtp]

Is it the consensus that if the red lines show through the gold coins on the band then one should worry about them being fake? I have read and reread this thread and have seen several pictures of bands posted that have lines under the coins and I can't seem to find a final answer. It seems that it just depends on the printing run of the bands. I just want to make sure that I understand everything. Thanks.

I would not go by bands alone.
Flavor profile construction and trusted vendors are you best bets when trying to figure out counterfeit cigars.

I have seen many crappy boxes and also subpar bands. But the cigars were 100% Cuban.

 

[Schwiering]

I would not go by bands alone.

Ok, I will rephrase my question. Is it normal for the bands to have the red lines show up under the gold coins, or should the coins be totally opaque?

 

[alexgtp]

I would not go by bands alone.

Ok, I will rephrase my question. Is it normal for the bands to have the red lines show up under the gold coins, or should the coins be totally opaque?

Both.
I have several boxes Of different Bolivars.
Upon 4x magnification I have seen both instances. But the majority are opaque.
In one case 1 box I had exhibited both bands.
I guess quality control for Cuba isnt top notch.

But as stated earlier do not go by bands alone to determine authenticity.

 

[Ginseng]

But as stated earlier do not go by bands alone to determine authenticity.

Absolutely true. In my opinion, there is not one killer way to determine that a cigar is genuine, well aside from having an individual who is experienced with the particular item actually smoke it. There are a whole host of considerations that must be considered.

As a scientist, I go about proving and disproving claims by stating a null hypothesis and then disproving it. For example, in this case, it is most useful to set a null hypothesis as: "This cigar is authentic." Stated in this way, one can proceed to identify factors which disprove this hypothesis.

The reason it's more effective to proceed in this fashion has to do with the nature of scientific knowledge. There is one school of thought that holds that a truth is impossible to prove with absolute certainty. In other words, we can accumulate evidence after evidence but doubt may always be raised. There may always be a weak link.

However, if instead, we seek to disprove a proposition (which is actually the opposite of what we really wanted to prove), we need only find one conclusive piece of information that contradicts the truthfulness of our claim.

So, in this case it would have gone something like this:

Null hypothesis: This Bolivar Coronas is genuine.

Contradictory Evidence:
1. bright glowing Cuban seal stamp paper
2. non-standard box code format
3. Habanos insert on wrong paper and with erroneous details
4. lack of "triple cap" appearance
5. smoked like rolled up gutter debris
and so on.

At one point, the totality of the evidence becomes overwhelming and then we must reject the hypothesis that the cigar is genuine. The ultimate result being, that we have determined that the cigar is indeed fake.

BTW, I am in possession of this box of Coronas now and will start a detailed analysis of all the components of this box. I think it will provide an object lesson in evidence to consider when scrutinizing cigars of dubious authenticity.

Wilkey

 

[ckeller52]

5. smoked like rolled up gutter debris and so on.

Wilkey

Enjoy! LOLOLOLOLOL.

 

[Strayvector]

BTW, I am in possession of this box of Coronas now and will start a detailed analysis of all the components of this box. I think it will provide an object lesson in evidence to consider when scrutinizing cigars of dubious authenticity.

Wilkey

I take that the vendor in question did not make "right" with this?

 

[ckeller52]

BTW, I am in possession of this box of Coronas now and will start a detailed analysis of all the components of this box. I think it will provide an object lesson in evidence to consider when scrutinizing cigars of dubious authenticity.

Wilkey

I take that the vendor in question did not make "right" with this?

Believe it or not that is still in play. I'm not holding my breath but the replies have been positive it's the follow through that has been slow.

 

[Ginseng]

I've started examining the box of fake Bolis that Chuck sent me and I can provide some evidence regarding the "red lines" criterion for determining authenticity. In a nutshell, it is not reliable and should not be considered an indicator of authenticity.

Here is a photograph of two of Chuck's fakes. One has the red lines showing clearly through the bronze paint and the other totally covered. That these two extremes are common occurrence becomes clears when one considers the printing and ink technology. Metallic paints of this kind typically use metal powders (aluminum, bronze, etc) to render the metallic look. These pigments are significantly more dense than the rest of the ink. As a result, they will rapidly settle to the bottom of any container the ink is kept in. A jar, an ink supply vessel, a gravure pan, you name it and the pigment will settle out unless you vigorously agitate the ink to keep the pigment well dispersed. In my experience, all it takes is a few moments without agitation and the ink will begin to rapidly separate. Also, as you use up the ink, uneven distribution of the pigment throughout the printing run can result in variations in pigment level and the resulting opacity.

Wilkey

BTW,
Chuck, these cigars smell terrible! I am keeping it in an overflow cooler for now but damn, they smell more like semi-composted horse manure than tobacco. Yikes.

 

[ckeller52]

but damn, they smell more like semi-composted horse manure than tobacco. Yikes.

So you don't think letting them sit in the humi for a year will help any huh? :whistling:

 

[Infinity]

Wow! This is a coincidence.

I did a newbie trade with Lucasbuck when I first joined. He sent me some nice sticks. However, one of the sticks, I am pretty sure, IMO, was this cigar.

It was staring at me Tuesday evening so I broke it out of my Humi. I cannot remember when I last chucked a stick. This corona was disgusting, I conducted an execution by drowning within the first inch.! The stick left a terrible after taste for some time.

Brian

 

[Ginseng]

Wow! This is a coincidence.

I did a newbie trade with Lucasbuck when I first joined. He sent me some nice sticks. However, one of the sticks, I am pretty sure, IMO, was this cigar.

It was staring at me Tuesday evening so I broke it out of my Humi. I cannot remember when I last chucked a stick. This corona was disgusting, I conducted an execution by drowning within the first inch.! The stick left a terrible after taste for some time.

Brian

I find it almost completely impossible that you would have gotten a cigar of questionable authenticity from Lucasbuck. I know of few FOGs with a better palate and superior experience with Habanos. You should bring this to his attention immediately.

Wilkey

 

[junkman_56]

Wilkey,
Can you show a genuine band also so we can compare it to the fake ones?

 

[Ginseng]

Wilkey,
Can you show a genuine band also so we can compare it to the fake ones?

Junk,

I did this in the "Bolivar Deathmatch" thread in this forum. They are essentially indistinguishable with any degree of confidence.

Wilkey

 

[bfreebern]

Wow! This is a coincidence.

I did a newbie trade with Lucasbuck when I first joined. He sent me some nice sticks. However, one of the sticks, I am pretty sure, IMO, was this cigar.

It was staring at me Tuesday evening so I broke it out of my Humi. I cannot remember when I last chucked a stick. This corona was disgusting, I conducted an execution by drowning within the first inch.! The stick left a terrible after taste for some time.

Brian

I seriously doubt it Bro.

 

[Infinity]

Wow! This is a coincidence.

I did a newbie trade with Lucasbuck when I first joined. He sent me some nice sticks. However, one of the sticks, I am pretty sure, IMO, was this cigar.

It was staring at me Tuesday evening so I broke it out of my Humi. I cannot remember when I last chucked a stick. This corona was disgusting, I conducted an execution by drowning within the first inch.! The stick left a terrible after taste for some time.

Brian

I seriously doubt it Bro.

You doubt what?

Hey guys slow down, you are reacting like it was intentional. I never said anything derogatory about lucasbuck. To the contrary, he sent me some nice sticks.

However, this was a Bolivar Corona that was disgusting. Coincidence that it was the same stick you are discussing? Maybe!

 

[JimK]

I really doubt Craig sent you a fake. Maybe you were having a bad day, or maybe the Boli was, or maybe it was sick, or maybe you have storage problems. All of the above are more likely than Craig sending you a fake, in my humble opinion.

 

[Infinity]

I really doubt Craig sent you a fake. Maybe you were having a bad day, or maybe the Boli was, or maybe it was sick, or maybe you have storage problems. All of the above are more likely than Craig sending you a fake, in my humble opinion.

No Doubt - storage is not the problem but a sick stick it definately was!

Brian

 

[Ginseng]

Infinity,

Please contact Craig as I suggested.

The fake Boli Coronas that Chuck received are so hideously offensive that nobody with any experience with Bolivar could have mistaken them for authentic.

I'm just saying that you should take this back to him directly.

The other guys chiming in are doing so because if there is a brother here who is beyond reproach, it is Craig. We are just flabbergasted that he would or could intentionally send you out one of these BoliFakes. I, for one, cannot believe it but I also don't think you meant to imply this was the case although your post sounded like it was making just such a claim.

Wilkey

Infinity,

Please contact Craig as I suggested.

The fake Boli Coronas that Chuck received are so hideously offensive that nobody with any experience with Bolivar could have mistaken them for authentic.

I'm just saying that you should take this back to him directly.

The other guys chiming in are doing so because if there is a brother here who is beyond reproach, it is Craig. We are just flabbergasted that he would or could intentionally send you out one of these BoliFakes. I, for one, cannot believe it but I also don't think you meant to imply this was the case although your post sounded like it was making just such a claim.

Wilkey

Chuck,

No offense was intended in what I wrote above. I meant no disparagement of you and I hope you can understand.

Wilkey