Bolivar Coronas

[ML237]

Right. Let me clarify.

1. Several niggling little things that could be artifacts of interpretation, imaging or normal variation
+
2. A few details that are more firm and suggestive (the appearance of triple cap)
+
3. One detail that is irrefutably and quantifiably different
=
damn near close to "beyond a reasonable doubt"

Unfortunately, so far only one other person has counted the loops on his inserts and reported the findings (privately). All of his had 24 loops as well. If tomorrow I were to receive a box with an insert that had anything other than 24 loops, I would issue a general request for people to check their stock and report their situations as well. It would be the weight of that evidence that would lead me to consider this final detail either conclusive or not.

Counterfeiters count on silence and secrecy to obfuscate their operations. It is our responsibility to shed light on notable observations and thus protect ourselves and the other members of our community.

Wilkey

[snapback]279962[/snapback]​

BANG ON WILKEY!!!!

 

[emodx]

We agree on this point, in general. In fact, more than a few (especially newer) members share your opinion. But, I brought up the idea of a "mentor" program in your Council thread and all I heard were crickets.

Is there a way to protect the innocent and unsuspecting while at the same time strengthening our ability to deal with fraud and enhancing the solidarity and inclusiveness of our community? I suspect there is and I think the solution waits for us to work it out.

Wilkey

[snapback]280438[/snapback]​

:thumbs:

 

[Ginseng]

But that is only my opinion.

Emo

And your opinion is more valid than mine as you are an admin here and I'm a newbie. So because I'm new here and don't want to rock the boat I'm as of now stopping all posting to this thread and breaking all my posted links.

Any more questions I have on this topic I'll do in PM's.

Sorry for the problems, I'll choose my topic's more carefully next time.

[snapback]280440[/snapback]​

Ckeller,

I sincerely urge you to reconsider. PM sent.

Wilkey

 

[ckeller52]

Ckeller,

I sincerely urge you to reconsider. PM sent.

Wilkey

OK, I'm back. See this edit.

Thanks

 

[Great King Rat]

If you just got them let them rest at least 6 weeks in your humidor at 65%rh and taste again. Cigars always are harsh when they arrive. Taste profile is the only way to know for sure. That earthiness and twang will let you know right away if it is real deal or not. I think cameras can play tricks.

Also, as Master mentioned your cigars could be going through sick period. Do you taste/smell ammonia? Usually you will lose most of that horrible ammonia and nasty taste in the first year, however, it does linger longer at times.

Let us know what you find out.

gkr

 

[alexgtp]

Chuck,

Hopefully this will put your mind at ease. :thumbs:

DC#0103 8555 7496 4566 2004

 

[tenbears10]

Don't know if this helps but I have a couple of empty bolivar boxes (bought in england) and the box code stamp on your pics looks quite different to mine. I haven't got the camera on me but I will try and get you a photo of each of mine.

That said the bands on your cigars do look very similar to legitimate bolivar bands.

 

[ckeller52]

Don't know if this helps but I have a couple of empty bolivar boxes (bought in england) and the box code stamp on your pics looks quite different to mine. I haven't got the camera on me but I will try and get you a photo of each of mine.

That said the bands on your cigars do look very similar to legitimate bolivar bands.

[snapback]280663[/snapback]​

Every little bit adds to the bigger picture. And photo's help.

Thanks

 

[ckeller52]

If you just got them let them rest at least 6 weeks in your humidor at 65%rh and taste again. Cigars always are harsh when they arrive. Taste profile is the only way to know for sure. That earthiness and twang will let you know right away if it is real deal or not. I think cameras can play tricks.

Also, as Master mentioned your cigars could be going through sick period. Do you taste/smell ammonia? Usually you will lose most of that horrible ammonia and nasty taste in the first year, however, it does linger longer at times.

Let us know what you find out.

gkr

[snapback]280534[/snapback]​

gkr

They have been sitting at 70% since the middle of December (seems longer) and I've sent out a few for taste testing. We'll see what that brings.

I have not noticed any ammonia smell either lit or unlit. But I'll fire another one up this weekend and pay closer attention.

Thanks

 

[ckeller52]

The box code font on the back of yours new Siglo VI is the same as all my Cubans. The Habanos sticker looks perfect too.

Coronas & Petit Coronas share the same ring gauge (Size 42). Coronas is only half inch longer than Petit.

Isn't it those Siglo VIs look beautiful? Yum Yum.




Edited for wrong Siglo type.

[snapback]280031[/snapback]​

Gaman

Thanks for the info and yes those sigs are quite lovely.

 

[willygt]

I also have read that the hologram is only used in boxes sold inside Cuba, and never on boxes for export. And the triple cap as stated before is missing and All cuban cigars (except belicosos or piramides i thinK) have them.

 

[ckeller52]

Chuck,

Hopefully this will put your mind at ease. :thumbs:

DC#0103 8555 7496 4566 2004

[snapback]280569[/snapback]​

More questions that answers but gathering the pieces is part of the fun.

Boli Bands

The bands are different and the same. The one I received came in a 4 7/8" x 48 ring. The Coronas in question measure 5 1/2" x 40 ring. What size are Coronas from boli anyway?

However, if you look at the bands side by side they are exactly the same size. This is very odd for a steel rule die cut piece especially if it's fake and coming from a completely different source.

The picture that looks like a single band is actually both bands one on top of the other. And while my band is the fuzzier of the two print jobs the other detail seems to be very close and the embossed areas are sharper on my band.

Confusing, very confusing. I'm frankly astonished that the bands are the exact same size.

 

[2stroke_bluesmoke]

Not that I am an expert compared to some of these posts, but I agree with the "experts" concerning the questionability of the cigars. I have been a newbie for a while and did get initially burned by purchasing "fakes." I understand the desire to keep the counterfeiters from the knowledge of their errors, but considering the money available to such people, don't you think they are employing every measure to make the fakes seem real via utilization of "experts?" The knowledge this board has imparted to me has made me a better and more learned shopper, and for that I extend my gratitude to the board and its members.
Just my 2 cents.
:sign:

 

[alexgtp]

Chuck,

Like i mentioned in the PM.

Bands ,seals, holograms, boxes, etc etc. Are not the definitive factor in spotting a fake they are only things to guage authenticity.

Remember ....
It all boils down to taste. Bolivars will taste like bolivars. And a fake will not , Now it may taste like cuban tobacco or it might taste like poop.

You can have the real thing..but have a sloppy looking bands and come in an ugly looking box. (I dont think Cuba has great QC when it comes to bands boxes etc etc. )

In my personal experience ,I have smoked some fugazi's that were clearly not cuban tobacco but had excellent bands and came in a great looking box. etc etc. But when i somoked them they were clearly not Cuban tobacco.

2 things to remember .

1. Trust your vendors
2. Know your cigars.


I once came across a website that sold all sorts of FAKE bands, boxes, seals, holograms etc etc. Everything you could use to make a fugazi look like the real deal. Im sure someone on here has the link to the website.



Also I sent you a ROYAL CORONA (4.8" x 50)

I wanted you to see what a BOlivar looked like and to give you a flavor profile you could use to compare your cigars too.

1.excellent well pronounced triple caps (that are found on all boli's with the exception of the pyrimiad shaped ones)

2.consistancy in the wrapper

3.strong distinct cuban tobacco smell

4.semi-squared off tip

Now compared to your pics. I did not see 2 of those in your cigars.

When i receive your stick I will let it recover from travel. And smoke it next week. And let you know my opinion of it.

Based on pics alone I would say poorly made cigars.
The lack of triple caps the rough looking wrapper the inconsistancy in color.
and of course the odd looking tip.

 

[smokelaw1]

But, I brought up the idea of a "mentor" program in your Council thread and all I heard were crickets.

Not to get TOO off topic, but I think this is a great idea. FOGs would have to agree to it, obviously, but teach newbs how to find, buy, etc the good stuff, all for a nominal fee (paid in those same sticks, I imagine).

Any FOGs actually think it's worth discussing, or want to use me as an experimental Newb?

 

[Ginseng]

But, I brought up the idea of a "mentor" program in your Council thread and all I heard were crickets.

Not to get TOO off topic, but I think this is a great idea. FOGs would have to agree to it, obviously, but teach newbs how to find, buy, etc the good stuff, all for a nominal fee (paid in those same sticks, I imagine).

Any FOGs actually think it's worth discussing, or want to use me as an experimental Newb?

[snapback]281627[/snapback]​

I find it hard to imagine that any senior members would seek compensation for this kind of guidance.

I might start thinking about some guidelines just to throw up as food for thought. Not as a proposal, per se, but rather to get at some of the motivations and values behind what is involved in this kind of mentorship. A program might fall out of the discussion and deliberation that occurs, or it might not.

Wilkey

 

[smokelaw1]

I doubt anyone would ask for said compensation, it would be nice of the newb under their wing to show appreciation, though.

I'd love to discuss it, again, jsut throw some ideas around. We could do so via PM at first if you want.

 

[dcbancroft]

Of the few thousand Cuban boxes that I have handled I have never seen a box code with NPD DIC-04(with a dash between month and year)

That stamp looks to crisp also and font is off...
Further more I don't think NPD code was in circulation in 2004...In 2005,Yes.

I have 10 boxes of Bolivar Coronas aging in stock and they have GKIABR04.

....just my 2 cents :blush:

 

[Ginseng]

I smoked one of ckeller52's Bolivar Coronas yesterday. I smoked it head to head against a Bolivar Tubos No.2, which is a tubed Bolivar Petit Corona. These two cigars are reportedly supposed to be very similar with the PC being only 5/8" shorter. I took pictures and made notes and after the others have smoked theirs, I'll be back to post my opinion.

Wilkey

 

[jstrat]

I smoked one of ckeller52's Bolivar Coronas yesterday. I smoked it head to head against a Bolivar Tubos No.2, which is a tubed Bolivar Petit Corona. These two cigars are reportedly supposed to be very similar with the PC being only 5/8" shorter. I took pictures and made notes and after the others have smoked theirs, I'll be back to post my opinion.

Wilkey

[snapback]282945[/snapback]​

Any update? Waiting on pins and needles ... :whistling: