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3 Pricks, Giddy Asshats & a Flake pass

2K6TBSS said:
The first two look a bit light.  Usually you want to be within $0.10 - $0.25 in value, especially when the cigar you are putting is less value than the cigar you are taking (known as an underput).  With an overput (the opposite of what was just explained) the rule doesn't really come into play as much.  But you still want to be as close as you can.
 
I would suggest taking another shot at the first two, but CJ is the owner of the pass, so he has the final say.
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Not necessarily so. Not sure where you came up with the $.10-.25 range. Generally any underput is ok as long as it's within $.50, but it has to be approved. My concern would be the #9 DC for the Feral Pig. You're looking at a cigar that can be had easily for one that can't AND it's an under put. That's the one that needs to be rethought
 
Oh, and that was a really good  attempt for your first shot in a pass.  It looks like you put some thought into your selections.
 
One additional thing to keep in mind is the rarity factor.  The cigars you picked don't really have a rarity factor (except for maybe the flying pig), so that might (or might not) affect what the value of the cigar is.  As you get into additional passes that have harder to find sticks (like the one Grateful1 is running right now) you will see what I'm talking about.
 
Bsneed51 said:
 

 

Well, reason being...I don't want to die of old age before its my turn. And that is approaching fast!

Take it away Sneedly.....
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I call first spot in your death pass.


Everyone knows what the death pass is right?
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OK, I'll play Ed McMahon here....
 
No Brent, I don't know what a 'Death Pass' is. Can you please explain it to me?

I don't like you.
 
It's a simple concept, if some unfortunate incident would occur, you set up predetermined instructions for your cigars to be boxed up and shipped out pass style to your choice of CP members.  Each person "takes" 1-2 cigars, but no "puts" are necessary obviously.   Those cigars are smoked in honor of you, or to celebrate us never having to put up with your crap again(depending on the person.)
 
My buddies Fatman1267 and Souldog have the instructions for my death pass.  FYI...CJ, you are not on the list. 

That's a very cool concept.
 
Sorry about the late reply gentlemen. Firstly, a $0.50 underput is a acceptable margin. Secondly rarity is a factor with some of these cigars. I won't add a dollar value markup for age or rarity, but I do believe that you would need to add something back that would carry added value. Value multipliers would include being; EL, RE, rare, aged, ect.
 
fjldo
 
1. I'm finding Kristoff GC Signature Series Robusto at around $8 which is too much of a underput.
2. Liga Privada No. 9 Corona Doble is roughly $14 a stick, so it's light by $2 and a rarity factor.
3. The prices seem in line with what I found, so this one is bueno!
 
Jonesy said:
The first two look a bit light.  Usually you want to be within $0.10 - $0.25 in value, especially when the cigar you are putting is less value than the cigar you are taking (known as an underput).  With an overput (the opposite of what was just explained) the rule doesn't really come into play as much.  But you still want to be as close as you can.
 
I would suggest taking another shot at the first two, but CJ is the owner of the pass, so he has the final say.
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Not necessarily so. Not sure where you came up with the $.10-.25 range. Generally any underput is ok as long as it's within $.50, but it has to be approved. My concern would be the #9 DC for the Feral Pig. You're looking at a cigar that can be had easily for one that can't AND it's an under put. That's the one that needs to be rethought
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I was just going off the first pass I participated in.  Big Jake said that underputs should be $.25 max.  But that was also a Newbie pass, so that probably played a part in the $.25 limit.
 
That's not a bad point because you want to be as close as possible value/value wise on a trade.
 
I'm of the old school train of thought when it comes to passing....you don't under put. It's not to make the end result being that the pass has doubled in value, but you take away any form of debate about your P/T's and it's part of the way I thank a host for allowing me in their pass.
 
 
Exp: What if I trade 3 sticks that are an average of $2 more per stick than what I'm getting? The pass host may get reamed for "bettering" their pass. But what is the difference between me doing that or adding a PAM Principe to the pass that I didn't use as part of a trade? People look at that as generosity on my part, but in essence, I've overvalued the pass by $8 instead of $6 by doing that.
 
Jonesy said:
That's not a bad point because you want to be as close as possible value/value wise on a trade.
 
I'm of the old school train of thought when it comes to passing....you don't under put. It's not to make the end result being that the pass has doubled in value, but you take away any form of debate about your P/T's and it's part of the way I thank a host for allowing me in their pass.
 
 
Exp: What if I trade 3 sticks that are an average of $2 more per stick than what I'm getting? The pass host may get reamed for "bettering" their pass. But what is the difference between me doing that or adding a PAM Principe to the pass that I didn't use as part of a trade? People look at that as generosity on my part, but in essence, I've overvalued the pass by $8 instead of $6 by doing that.
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This is how I like to operate as well. Thank you for putting it so well.
 
Jonesy said:
That's not a bad point because you want to be as close as possible value/value wise on a trade.
 
I'm of the old school train of thought when it comes to passing....you don't under put. It's not to make the end result being that the pass has doubled in value, but you take away any form of debate about your P/T's and it's part of the way I thank a host for allowing me in their pass.
 
 
Exp: What if I trade 3 sticks that are an average of $2 more per stick than what I'm getting? The pass host may get reamed for "bettering" their pass. But what is the difference between me doing that or adding a PAM Principe to the pass that I didn't use as part of a trade? People look at that as generosity on my part, but in essence, I've overvalued the pass by $8 instead of $6 by doing that.
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First I know I am not in the pass, but I am going to 'troll the shit" out of it becasue it is CJs Pass....
Second, I have not been in a lot of passes, but I usually follow 4 or 5 a season, the passes that I have been in, I always try to keep the over/under really close
I like to add extra stuff to the pass as an aside, and unannounced in the forums, but with a note explaining my intentions.
 
I never want it to seem like the host is trying to better his position, after all he was nice enough to allow me in the pass in the first place.
 
Thanks
 
Tim
 
First and foremost I don't know why any of you would want to throw any gift in CJ's general direction.  He is a gooch, and he licks his beads!
 
Gentlemen, thank you for the clarifications.  I had a general sense of the over/unders, but your info has made it clearer to me.  Verifying prices from multiple sources is part of the challenge I guess.  I am going to assume that the lowest price found anywhere is the one we use?  Is it acceptable to "put" a cigar that is $2 above the "take"?
 
The rarity of the cigar is something I should've intuitively figured out, but didn't.  What's clear is that I don't have those "rare" cigars in my "young" humidor, so I'll have to let the "flying pig iie"  :whistling:   Unless of course you allow higher priced cigars like Davidoffs or Padrons for trade.
 
I'll have this figured out by tomorrow morning and I do appreciate your patience with me!  :)
 
Frank
 
From my limited experience I've always been under the impression that over putting is acceptable. Not everyone can match a cigar exactly rarity for rarity and price for price, but I like someone I spoke with today said "I'd trade a $8 cigar I've never had before and I want, for one of my $12 cigars that I have stock piled any day!"
 
The way I do my pricing (which isn't how I'm telling you to do yours, nor am I saying it's right) is to find multiple prices from a couple different locations and average them out. Just a example of my logic would be if you found 3 prices on the same box at $145, $150, and $155, I'd say the average price is $150 a box. I would however not include a price in my equation if say the box was on sale for $50 less than everywhere else. That would then make a $5 cigar average out to maybe $3.87 a cigar. Once again, I'm not saying that's how you should do it, that's just my logic on the matter.
 
If you want a $16 Feral Flying Pig and propose trading one of your many Padron 85ths at $20 then that is your choice and that would be acceptable by most of us.
 
wkoti said:
From my limited experience I've always been under the impression that over putting is acceptable. Not everyone can match a cigar exactly rarity for rarity and price for price, but I like someone I spoke with today said "I'd trade a $8 cigar I've never had before and I want, for one of my $12 cigars that I have stock piled any day!"
 
The way I do my pricing (which isn't how I'm telling you to do yours, nor am I saying it's right) is to find multiple prices from a couple different locations and average them out. Just a example of my logic would be if you found 3 prices on the same box at $145, $150, and $155, I'd say the average price is $150 a box. I would however not include a price in my equation if say the box was on sale for $50 less than everywhere else. That would then make a $5 cigar average out to maybe $3.87 a cigar. Once again, I'm not saying that's how you should do it, that's just my logic on the matter.
 
If you want a $16 Feral Flying Pig and propose trading one of your many Padron 85ths at $20 then that is your choice and that would be acceptable by most of us.
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That's advice I can live with  :)   Thank you!
 
There didn't seem to be any issue with the CC P/T, so i'll stick with that and I will take you up on the suggestion with the Flying Pig.  Since this is my first pass, I will stick with two P/T and try not to bite off more than I can chew.
 
So, I make the following proposal:
 
 
P: Padron Family Reserve Maduro, No. 85, ~$20.00................T: Liga Privada Feral Flying Pig, ~$16
 
P: Bolivar Royal Corona, ~$7.60......................T: RASS, ~$7.40  (CC prices based on box of 25)
 
Let me know what you think, thanks.
 
Frank
 
Let me know your thoughts gents!
 
Bluue13, you're up next so put your game face one!
 
They look good to me. I think the first might be a little over, but it might be all he has. If you are good, so am I.
 
Not the proposed puts, but too much over puts can make the pass too rich for the last folks in the lineup.
 
As an aside to FJldo, I don't believe there's any reason to constrain yourself to 2-3 Puts/Takes. Might as well make it worth it. I imagine when my turn comes around I'll be trying for 5-10.
 
I don't see a problem with the Padron for the Pig. I think the Pigs are a little over hyped anyway. I'm not saying they're not great cigars because they are. For this reason they are hard to find but I think the trade is a good one. As for the number of trades you make, I agree with Gavin. If you see something in there that you've wanted to try and you have something to trade for it then by all means make the trade. That's what passes are for.
 
Looks good, trade others if you see something you want to try, as was stated.

C
 
$4 over put for a Feral pig? DAMN am I the only one thinking that is very high. Yes they are somewhat hard to find but not that bad and they are still made. Its not like there was only a select # of cigars made and never to be seen again. 
 
Just one mans opinion,
Paul
 
It just depends on what he has to trade Paul.....he may not have something a little closer.  When you're looking at a higher priced cigar that has some rarity involved, than $4 over is well within the acceptability limit. Yea, they're still in production, but I can't just go to my B&M and grab a few, or go online and order a few. That's one of the factors I look at when approving trades in one of my passes.
 
BTW, I wasn't advocating adding $2 to each trade or telling people they should add an extra cigar in with their puts. I was just giving an example from my wealth of knowledge! :laugh:
 
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