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When does a $5 bag Spanish Cedar Chips cost $10?

This is really sad. How much of a beating does a guy need to take before enough is enough. He is a retailer now and has been for a while. Was his prices out of line for wood shavings? Very well might have been. If you do not like his prices do not buy his goods, hell even let people know but to berate someone into submission is sad!!!. Some of you let him know when you "outed" him. You beat on him for a while. He saw it and did not respond(he is not required to answer to anyone with the possible exception of Rod). You beat a little harder knowing full well if you embarras him enough he will come back and probably finally crack(some of you guys are very good at that task).

Before anyone asks who or what does "some of you guys" mean if you really have to ask then you probably need to take a deep look at yourself. Some of the guys here are very good protectors of the board. Some of you are just out right mean spirited. Some of you actually believe you know for sure what someones motives are we either have mind readers or someone has some unworldly power of some sort. It has taken a while as I may not be the brightest bulb on the planet. I also have a very good idea what some of the motives of certain people here are and if some of the newer guys take the time and really dig into whats happening they would see that a % of people are here mainly for one thing.. That one thing is to berate others.

This has been a lynch mob waiting to happen since at least last year. You can be in denial and beat the hell out of me so you do not have to look at yourself. I am not going to post a link or post any quotes(Those of you who know what I am talking about because you were involved feel free if you wish. Some of the post are very interesting). Am I ivory clean hell no. I actually made a post in the thread untilI realized it was a lynch mob.

I have said enough those of you who choose to now have a second(chew toy as you fondly call it) to berate. The simple truth as much as I know is going to be denied or twisted towards me to deflect the truth. A group of you were just waiting for this guy to make any mistake to pounce on him and are reveling in your glory(LOOK AT ME I OUTED A BAD GUY). Justify your position, kill me really does not matter. The truth hurts. ;)
 
pembroke3355 said:
This is really sad. How much of a beating does a guy need to take before enough is enough. He is a retailer now and has been for a while. Were his prices out of line for wood shavings? Very well might have been. If you do not like his prices do not buy his goods, hell even let people know but to berate someone into submission is sad! Some of you let him know when you "outed" him. You beat on him for a while. He saw it and did not respond(he is not required to answer to anyone with the possible exception of Rod). You beat a little harder knowing full well if you embarrass him enough he will come back and probably finally crack(some of you guys are very good at that task).

Before anyone asks who or what does "some of you guys" mean if you really have to ask then you probably need to take a deep look at yourself. Some of the guys here are very good protectors of the board. Some of you are just out right mean spirited. Some of you actually believe you know for sure what someones motives are we either have mind readers or someone has some unworldly power of some sort. It has taken a while as I may not be the brightest bulb on the planet. I also have a very good idea what some of the motives of certain people here are and if some of the newer guys take the time and really dig into whats happening they would see that a % of people are here mainly for one thing.. That one thing is to berate others.

This has been a lynch mob waiting to happen since at least last year. You can be in denial and beat the hell out of me so you do not have to look at yourself. I am not going to post a link or post any quotes(Those of you who know what I am talking about because you were involved feel free if you wish. Some of the post are very interesting). Am I ivory clean? Hell no. I actually made a post in the thread until I realized it was a lynch mob.

I have said enough those of you who choose to now have a second(chew toy as you fondly call it) to berate. The simple truth as much as I know is going to be denied or twisted towards me to deflect the truth. A group of you were just waiting for this guy to make any mistake to pounce on him and are reveling in your glory(LOOK AT ME I OUTED A BAD GUY). Justify your position, kill me really does not matter. The truth hurts. ;)
Click to expand...

Have you STILL not caught on to how things work here? When the community sees an issue, whether it be one person bringing it up or several, it's addressed, and worked through until the end. Yes it has been waiting to happen for a while, because he's still been playing the small time hobbyist card while charging astronomical prices. How he is viewed is all in his responses, which have been incredibly lacking. Why on earth would you post this? Let the system do its work, it's been here longer than you or I and has done a damn fine job so far.
 
Devil Doc said:
OMG, he's playing the Red Cross card. Damn, we've been so misguided.

Doc.
Click to expand...


Don't worry, I'm charging them and for those that are still in fog. I'M A MANUFAFTURER. THAT SELLS FOR RETAIL. :D This was made clear last time you guys tried to make me your chew toy. You remind me of my avatar. LMAO
 
pembroke3355 said:
This is really sad. How much of a beating does a guy need to take before enough is enough. He is a retailer now and has been for a while. Was his prices out of line for wood shavings? Very well might have been. If you do not like his prices do not buy his goods, hell even let people know but to berate someone into submission is sad!!!. Some of you let him know when you "outed" him. You beat on him for a while. He saw it and did not respond(he is not required to answer to anyone with the possible exception of Rod). You beat a little harder knowing full well if you embarras him enough he will come back and probably finally crack(some of you guys are very good at that task).

Before anyone asks who or what does "some of you guys" mean if you really have to ask then you probably need to take a deep look at yourself. Some of the guys here are very good protectors of the board. Some of you are just out right mean spirited. Some of you actually believe you know for sure what someones motives are we either have mind readers or someone has some unworldly power of some sort. It has taken a while as I may not be the brightest bulb on the planet. I also have a very good idea what some of the motives of certain people here are and if some of the newer guys take the time and really dig into whats happening they would see that a % of people are here mainly for one thing.. That one thing is to berate others.

This has been a lynch mob waiting to happen since at least last year. You can be in denial and beat the hell out of me so you do not have to look at yourself. I am not going to post a link or post any quotes(Those of you who know what I am talking about because you were involved feel free if you wish. Some of the post are very interesting). Am I ivory clean hell no. I actually made a post in the thread untilI realized it was a lynch mob.

I have said enough those of you who choose to now have a second(chew toy as you fondly call it) to berate. The simple truth as much as I know is going to be denied or twisted towards me to deflect the truth. A group of you were just waiting for this guy to make any mistake to pounce on him and are reveling in your glory(LOOK AT ME I OUTED A BAD GUY). Justify your position, kill me really does not matter. The truth hurts.
wink.gif
Click to expand...

Don, you know, I really like you, but sometimes you need to just STFU. Yea, there's been a group waiting for this to happen and there's a pretty damn good reason for it...obviously, you just don't see that. Yes, we also know who you mean by "some of us guys"...why don't you quit pussy footing around and say names? You want me to? OK, Myself, jfields, Grateful1, jayro75, Souldog, Devil Doc, and I can't forget to add in tomthirtysix, your arch nemesis.

He is required to answer to the board when accusations like this are made. Are you living in fairy tale world? Do you want those I named just to sit back and watch as people come through and rip you off? There isn't a certain "%" of people here that are here just to "berate" anyone. There is a certain "%" of people that aren't afraid to speak their minds when they smell bullshit walking through the door and when they do, they do a pretty good job of cleaning up the mess. We don't walk around with tags on our shirts that say "watchdog" like JHolmes thinks we do, we are just the ones that say what we feel. Sometimes I go overboard and I'll be the first to admit that, but when I jump in on something like this, there's a pretty damn good reason and it's not to berate anyone, or to stroke my ego. It's because this is my home...my sole forum that I visit and post on, the place where I have quite a few friends and I'll be damned if I'll sit back and watch someone fuck the community.

I'm glad you wanted me to "justify my postion, kill me really doesn't matter" because you've unleashed this one on yourself. Quit playing the fugging martyr.
 
Yeahthatsme said:
Have you STILL not caught on to how things work here? When the community sees an issue, whether it be one person bringing it up or several, it's addressed, and worked through until the end.
Click to expand...

This. :thumbs:

In the year and a half or so I've been here, this has gone down at least a dozen times. It always ends one of two ways: someone either flaming out under the pressure, or having a moment of clarity and posting a standup, no excuses, no BS apology thread.

Which, let's face it, takes some serious sack.

Seems to me this community has one fairly simply rule: Thou shalt as a damn grownup conduct thyself, and never an asshat be.

~Boar
 
Yeahthatsme said:
Yes it has been waiting to happen for a while, because he's still been playing the small time hobbyist card while charging astronomical prices.
Click to expand...

It's been known since April of 2009 that HM was a retailer and was charging for his labor.

Rod said:
You should be reimbursed for your time, no question about that. I would never expect someone to make me something at cost. Therefore, feel free to sell your items in the retailer forum
Click to expand...

HM probably still referred to himself as a hobbyist after that since only the CP definition of hobbyist includes charging for labor. Either way, it should have been known to anyone right there that labor costs were included. There were several references before or after that to $800 humidors, so you know the kind of prices he was charging and are free to support him or not.

Some people thought all along, since HM joined, that he was here simply to earn a profit. I don't know how you prove that, but does it really matter after April '09? It's clear he's a retailer, charging high prices (for some), charging for labor and making a profit off of his work that he does in his spare time.

Then in July '09, HM opens a shop to build woodwork on a more permanent basis. Has HM referred to himself as a hobbyist after this point? I'll do some more searching to find out. Again here, the members who suspected he was here for profit all along posted "how interesting" and "how unexpected", etc. I don't see how anything changed, though, since it was known since April '09 that he was charging for labor, etc.

So now we're at the point where HM offered scraps for $10 and then lowered the offer to $5 for another member (presumedly for a smaller bag/box). This is a bad act for a BOTL and not looked up on favorably even as a retailer. HM's offer to just give away the scraps is viewed upon as buying his way back into the community. Debatable, since this is the action many wanted in the first place.

The other issues concerning his use of tools to make hinges and asking for votes on a project are out there, too. Not sure what the use of tools has to do with anything. I can't remember if either of these came out before or after his designation as a retailer. The voting thing... people always ask their friends for votes. it's a gray area for sure, though - why not let the work speak for itself as another said. Not sure what either of these issues have to do with anything, though, other than fuel fires that people already had burning.

Did I miss anything (besides the puff issue where HM hasn't been active since 30 Apr, as he said he would)?

-John
 
John, you did forget one important part of all of this that quite a few (pembroke3355) seem to have missed.

Rod said:
It's a shame certain "members" are here only to benefit themselves, and do nothing to support this community. HM presented himself as a person who had a passion for cigars and wood-working. It's unfortunate his "passion for cigars" has turned into a business, and he now nickel and dimes people for floor sweep. What's most amazing are members like HM who benefit from CP (weather it be financially or through networking), and do nothing to support this community.
Click to expand...


Anyone care to debate this quote?
 
John since you've first got here you've enjoyed talking the unpopular point of view, no matter what it was. I'm sure you did well on your high school debating club. But, it's grown tiresome, boring and trite. Write to your Congressman, would ya. It's got to the point where no one takes you seriously. I think you just enjoy arguing and the attention it gets you.

Doc.
 
pembroke3355 said:
This is really sad. How much of a beating does a guy need to take before enough is enough. He is a retailer now and has been for a while. Was his prices out of line for wood shavings? Very well might have been. If you do not like his prices do not buy his goods, hell even let people know but to berate someone into submission is sad!!!. Some of you let him know when you "outed" him. You beat on him for a while. He saw it and did not respond(he is not required to answer to anyone with the possible exception of Rod). You beat a little harder knowing full well if you embarras him enough he will come back and probably finally crack(some of you guys are very good at that task).

Before anyone asks who or what does "some of you guys" mean if you really have to ask then you probably need to take a deep look at yourself. Some of the guys here are very good protectors of the board. Some of you are just out right mean spirited. Some of you actually believe you know for sure what someones motives are we either have mind readers or someone has some unworldly power of some sort. It has taken a while as I may not be the brightest bulb on the planet. I also have a very good idea what some of the motives of certain people here are and if some of the newer guys take the time and really dig into whats happening they would see that a % of people are here mainly for one thing.. That one thing is to berate others.

This has been a lynch mob waiting to happen since at least last year. You can be in denial and beat the hell out of me so you do not have to look at yourself. I am not going to post a link or post any quotes(Those of you who know what I am talking about because you were involved feel free if you wish. Some of the post are very interesting). Am I ivory clean hell no. I actually made a post in the thread untilI realized it was a lynch mob.

I have said enough those of you who choose to now have a second(chew toy as you fondly call it) to berate. The simple truth as much as I know is going to be denied or twisted towards me to deflect the truth. A group of you were just waiting for this guy to make any mistake to pounce on him and are reveling in your glory(LOOK AT ME I OUTED A BAD GUY). Justify your position, kill me really does not matter. The truth hurts. ;)
Click to expand...

Everybody, look at the drama queen!
 
Jonesy said:
John, you did forget one important part of all of this that quite a few (pembroke3355) seem to have missed.
Click to expand...

No, I addressed that as his selling of shavings and the resolution he proposed after being called out on it, which some choose as not acceptable.

What would be a good resolution to the scrap issue, to you?

-John

Devil Doc said:
But, it's grown tiresome, boring and trite.
Click to expand...

I really don't care what you think about my style. I will listen to you about cigars, history or other matters, though.

-John
 
JHolmes763 said:
Jonesy said:
John, you did forget one important part of all of this that quite a few (pembroke3355) seem to have missed.
Click to expand...

No, I addressed that as his selling of shavings and the resolution he proposed after being called out on it, which some choose as not acceptable.

What would be a good resolution to the scrap issue, to you?

-John
Click to expand...
It's already been resolved.

(btw, I used that post as a reminder to those that seem to have forgotten or overlooked it...not as to look for an answer
wink.gif
)
 
JHolmes763 said:
Yeahthatsme said:
Yes it has been waiting to happen for a while, because he's still been playing the small time hobbyist card while charging astronomical prices.
Click to expand...

It's been known since April of 2009 that HM was a retailer and was charging for his labor.
Click to expand...

If you look at the way he was posting (ie: Is it OK for me to post a trade from another board?) it was obvious to me from the get go what his intentions were.
 
Jonesy said:
Don, you know, I really like you, but sometimes you need to just STFU. Yea, there's been a group waiting for this to happen and there's a pretty damn good reason for it...obviously, you just don't see that. Yes, we also know who you mean by "some of us guys"...why don't you quit pussy footing around and say names? You want me to? OK, Myself, jfields, Grateful1, jayro75, Souldog, Devil Doc, and I can't forget to add in tomthirtysix, your arch nemesis.



I'm glad you wanted me to "justify my postion, kill me really doesn't matter" because you've unleashed this one on yourself. Quit playing the fugging martyr.
Click to expand...

#2, don't forget me in this group. Don doesn't like me or my tactics either.

Now, I've stayed out of this because others had it handled, but to address all of those taking the "quit being mean" road, all I have to say is this: Don't want to get beat down? don't want to be a chew toy? don't want to be piled on? That's easy, don't give the "watchdogs" a reason to pounce on you. Questionable behavior, legit or not, is going to be questioned. When you get questioned, answer the questions. If you're honest and legit with your answers and intentions, everyone is usually satisfied and it goes back to business as usual. Dance around or ignore the thread when it's obvious that you're online, then the pile on will begin. Is it that hard?
 
When I get my lap top fixed, I'll post the recipt to resolve the issue as to why I haven't been doing many reviews and posts lately. Today I just happen to be waiting for glue to dry at different intervals. I would like to say though that I do answer questions about wood working regularly in PM's an in the Humidor section. I know the same group is notorious for being the muscle around here and I respect that. My feelings are not hurt, they are passionate about this site. I have to say though that by definition I do this as a hobby.

hob·by 1 (hb)
n. pl. hob·bies
An activity or interest pursued outside one's regular occupation (Audio 2000 www.audio2000az.com for proof) and engaged in primarily for pleasure.

BUT! by definition, I am also a retailer.

Wikipedia definition:
Retailing consists of the sale of goods or merchandise from a very fixed location, such as a department store, boutique or kiosk, or by mail, in small or individual lots for direct consumption by the purchaser.[1] Retailing may include subordinated services, such as delivery. Purchasers may be individuals or businesses. In commerce, a "retailer" buys goods or products in large quantities from manufacturers or importers, either directly or through a wholesaler, and then sells smaller quantities to the end-user. Retail establishments are often called shops or stores. Retailers are at the end of the supply chain. Manufacturing marketers see the process of retailing as a necessary part of their overall distribution strategy. The term "retailer" is also applied where a service provider services the needs of a large number of individuals, such as a public utility, like electric power.

In order to keep the peace, I choose to be defined as a retailer. BUT, like it or not, I do it for the pleasure of it. Hopefully this can allow you to see this from both sides of the coin. I respect your opinions although I may not agree with them sometimes.

Anyway, I'm going home now. You guys have a wonderful evening. ;)
 
Devil Doc said:
But, it's grown tiresome, boring and trite.
Click to expand...

I really don't care what you think about my style. I will listen to you about cigars, history or other matters, though.

-John
[/quote]


So I was correct, Holmes, in deducing that it was a matter of style rather than conviction.

Doc
 
Devil Doc said:
John since you've first got here you've enjoyed talking the unpopular point of view, no matter what it was. I'm sure you did well on your high school debating club. But, it's grown tiresome, boring and trite. Write to your Congressman, would ya. It's got to the point where no one takes you seriously. I think you just enjoy arguing and the attention it gets you.

Doc.
Click to expand...

Doc- do you really think that his Congressman will listen? They haven't listened to a soul in YEARS!! :laugh: lol
 
Devil Doc said:
So I was correct, Holmes, in deducing that it was a matter of style rather than conviction.
Click to expand...

I meant my style of conviction, of course. :)

eta: Did you see me get involved in the OR anejo thread, mr. mac thread, newb/fog thread, ghost thread, pirate thread, chris28054 thread or any other numerous issues where I agreed with what was going on? The last one I was involved with was CHENMEN in Sept '09, if my searching is correct. I get involved when i don't like what I see. That's it. I think I've had a couple people honestly agree with me when I gave my opinion recently, too. Don't play clever like you deduced my "style" just because I happened to use that word and don't imply I get involved in every drama thread.

edit:fix quotes and add more 'threads"
 
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