• Hi Guest - Come check out all of the new CP Merch Shop! Now you can support CigarPass buy purchasing hats, apparel, and more...
    Click here to visit! here...

What's the deal with Cubans

KusoJijii

in your humidor
Joined
Aug 6, 2008
Messages
395
So I am new to cigars. Obviously.

I am just wondering if Cuban cigars are that much different than others or is it more of a "can't have so you want" thing. I would think with ability to crossbreed other types of tobacco and advancements in industry techniques, a superior smoke could be made outside Cuba.

Or is there something about the environment in Cuba that can't be reproduced outside of the island?

Remember, I am a newbie. Let the flaming begin...
 
So I am new to cigars. Obviously.

I am just wondering if Cuban cigars are that much different than others or is it more of a "can't have so you want" thing. I would think with ability to crossbreed other types of tobacco and advancements in industry techniques, a superior smoke could be made outside Cuba.

Or is there something about the environment in Cuba that can't be reproduced outside of the island?

Remember, I am a newbie. Let the flaming begin...

You should do a search, this has been discussed by many a newbie!

Read up and then get back to us.
 
Different strokes for different folks. Are cuban cigars better then non-cuban? Up to the individual smoker, b/c you're going to find someone on each side of the fence.

I've had exceptional cigars, that were cuban and non-cuban.
 
You should do a search, this has been discussed by many a newbie!

Read up and then get back to us.

just replying to let you know I took your advise...

here's what I learned:

"...it's all a matter of perception as to if they are better or not. Some people love them, some hate them, some can't tell the difference..."

"taste is subjective to each individual"

"Just like any other country of origin, there are great, ok and terrible cigars."

"They have a unique flavor because of the soil the leaves are grown in."

"...how many times I meet cigars smokers that finally put their hands on a cuban and are dissapointed, many, they expect too much because the cuban cigars have a pseudo mythical aura around them."


and all that in one thread. I need to use the search engine more. Thanks.
 
You should do a search, this has been discussed by many a newbie!

Read up and then get back to us.

just replying to let you know I took your advise...

here's what I learned:

"...it's all a matter of perception as to if they are better or not. Some people love them, some hate them, some can't tell the difference..."

"taste is subjective to each individual"

"Just like any other country of origin, there are great, ok and terrible cigars."

"They have a unique flavor because of the soil the leaves are grown in."

"...how many times I meet cigars smokers that finally put their hands on a cuban and are dissapointed, many, they expect too much because the cuban cigars have a pseudo mythical aura around them."


and all that in one thread. I need to use the search engine more. Thanks.
There you go a very open ended subject! Good job on the quotes, next question.
 
There you go a very open ended subject! Good job on the quotesn next question.


OK, if I got seeds from a Cuban plant, and grew them in Iowa, would they be Cuban or Iowan. And should I get a Wrestler or a Baseball player for endorsements?



I kid! I kid!
 
There you go a very open ended subject! Good job on the quotesn next question.


OK, if I got seeds from a Cuban plant, and grew them in Iowa, would they be Cuban or Iowan. And should I get a Wrestler or a Baseball player for endorsements?



I kid! I kid!
Get ARod he has the whole Madonna thing going right now. Good luck with you release and make sure you send me samples!
 
There you go a very open ended subject! Good job on the quotesn next question.


OK, if I got seeds from a Cuban plant, and grew them in Iowa, would they be Cuban or Iowan?

In a certain context, this is a good question. Moki recently had a blind taste test where he sent a lucky few participants unbanded cigars and asked them to rate them. He included both Cubans and non Cubans, and asked the participants if they could distinguish the country of origin. I believe that the majority of the time, participants were able to distinguish a Cuban flavour profile from a non Cuban.

Personally, I've only had one non Cuban that I thought had the Cuban profile (the Cabaiguan Guapo), although I've sampled a handful of cigars with Cubanesque characteristics. Perhaps there are more cigars out there with the Cuban profile; I just haven't had the pleasure of sampling them. This begs the question: Why can't you take Cuban tobacco seeds and reproduce Cuban tobacco in another country? People will tell you that the soil and the climate are responsible for the difference, however I think there has to be more variables in this equation. If Pepin could do it, then why can't it be done on a more widescale basis.

Personally, I think that the Cuban culture of tobacco is responsible for the unique flavour profile. Tobacco is in the national blood, the DNA, the way of life. There is a passion for cigars, and you can taste it (mostly for good, sometimes for bad).
 
With all the great rollers and blenders coming out of Cuba (Don Pepin), cigars are getting closer and closer to the flavor profile of good Cubans. For instance, many people have sworn the new line from Pete Johnson, La Riqueza, are VERY close in overall profile. I've had two different vitola's personally, and I can say, these are really good.
 
With all the great rollers and blenders coming out of Cuba (Don Pepin), cigars are getting closer and closer to the flavor profile of good Cubans. For instance, many people have sworn the new line from Pete Johnson, La Riqueza, are VERY close in overall profile. I've had two different vitola's personally, and I can say, these are really good.

Hmmm.

Great growers, rollers, and others involved in the cigar industry have been creating cigars grown with Cuban seed since the Revolution; long before Jose Garcia left Cuba. So far, in my opinion anyway, nobody has duplicated the Cuban taste or appears to be close to doing so. This is neither good not bad; it simply is. Why try to duplicate something that already exists, anyway?

The only non-Cuban cigar that really, really fooled me (and as I recall, everyone else in Moki's taste test) was the Cabaiguan WDC, a very limited production cigar of which I only smoked that single example. Personally, I find the other regular, original Cabaiguans to be papery and not at all "Cubanesque". Similarly, I have smoked a dozen La Riquezas (and many other Tatuajes) in different shapes and while I agree that they are excellent cigars, there is nothing remotely Cuban about them, at least to me. This is where a wise man like Infinity would step in and say (as he did in another thread regarding Padrons) that taste is subjective. And I would agree completely. What you find reminiscent of Cubans, I might not and what I like you might not favor at all.

So what is it about the "Cuban taste"? Is it the "terroir" of the growing regions in Cuba? The way the tobacco is handled and processed? The fact that they are forbidden fruit for us in the U.S.? Nothing but a self-reinforcing myth? I think all of those factor are part of the answer. But remember, there are superb cigars coming from many different sources. Besides Cuba, there is wrapper, filler, and binder coming from Nicaragua, Honduras, the Dominican Republic, Brazil, Peru, and parts of Africa and the Far East (and probably other places) being used in the cigars available to us all right now - Pepin Blends, CAO, Fuente, Padron, Camacho, Gurkha, and all the rest.

The answer the OP's question "what's the deal with Cubans?" is the same as it is for any other cigar. Namely, try some and if you like them, smoke them. If not, try something else. And dont' worry about the reputation :)

- Tim
 
OK, if I got seeds from a Cuban plant, and grew them in Iowa, would they be Cuban or Iowan.

When one grafts Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot vines from Bordeaux onto Californian rootstock, the wines produced are not the same due to differences in terroir. California Cabernet and Bordeaux wines can both be high quality, yet they are unique in flavor profile.

Nonetheless, why would we want NCs to taste like CCs? When I reach for a Nicaraguan cigar, I want it to taste like Nicaraguan tobacco. I value the fact that, after a few CCs, I can smoke something that is completely different in flavor.
 
Welcome to CigarPass. Your post and seemingly simple questions touched upon a whole host of issues. Issues that have been fertile ground for discussion over the years. The responses thus far have good for you, I hope.

Let me unpack your post and make the topics a bit more explicit.

I am just wondering if Cuban cigars are that much different than others or
Different in what ways? Growing, processing, rolling, marketing, packaging, smoking? Interpreted literally, your question would speak to all the ways Cubans could be different from any other cigar of non-Cuban origin. But I'm thinking that this is perhaps just another way of asking whether Cuban cigars taste differently from non-Cubans. In other words, is there such a thing as the "Cuban twang?" Do a search on taste tests carried out by Moki and you'll find the best empirical answer out there.

My hypothesis based on experience and readings of blind and non-blind taste tests suggests the following to me: At the heart of things, a cigar tastes of tobacco. Above the base tobacco are characteristics such as distinctive flavor notes, nicotine, etc. The overall "flavor space" spanned by all the non-Cuban cigars (which include puros as well as cigars containing tobacco from several different national origins) is much broader than that spanned by Cuban cigars, which by definition, are all puros. Some of the Cuban flavor space overlaps some of the NC flavor space, thus resulting in a subset of C and NC cigars that taste quite similar (e.g., the Cabaiguan WDC that Seth referred to and I'm assuming that he finds similar to particular C cigars). So for example, let's say for sake of argument, that the H. Upmann Magnum 46 is one such Cuban in this intersecting flavor space. By my hypothesis, a Cabby WCD would be essentially indistinguishable from a Mag46 even for a trained and sensitive palate. Other cigars, Rocky Patel Vintage 1992 and an El Rey del Mundo Lunch Club, for example, might be located in non-overlapping regions of flavor space and thus would be easily distinguishable (but not necessarily identifiable). Let me be clear that this hypothesis does not say there is such a thing as the "Cuban twang" or an isolatable characteristic defined as "Cuban-ness." It just says that cigars taste like tobacco and that certain cigars taste like others and unlike yet others.

In a recent blind test in which I participated, the majority of smokers correctly identified the Mag46 as a Magnum 46 and then by default, as Cuban. I find this to be a distinctive cigar and I picked it with high confidence. However, that does not meant that if you gave me a Cabby WCD and that I called it a Mag46 that I would be wrong, per se. I would be wrong about the identity, but accurate about the flavor.

is it more of a "can't have so you want" thing.
This speaks to the "forbidden fruit" phenomenon. A powerful psychological factor that cannot be discounted.

I would think with ability to crossbreed other types of tobacco and advancements in industry techniques, a superior smoke could be made outside Cuba.
Who can say what the result of hybridization might be. One fellow in my lab had cantaloupes accidentally cross-pollinate some watermelons. He said the resulting fruit looked like a cantaloupe on the outside, a watermelon on the inside, and tasted crappy, like neither nor even a blend of the two. The fact is, excellent tobacco is being grown in central America and the Caribbean using hybridized and pure strains of all sorts of tobaccos. There's even an outfit in Costa Rica that purports to grow pure strains of pre-embargo tobacco. The basics of tobacco processing don't vary all that much. Hygiene, quality control, and consistency seem to very important. At least as important as the actual techniques used.

Or is there something about the environment in Cuba that can't be reproduced outside of the island?
All the parenthetical evidence and parallel examples from other types of agriculture suggest that terroir as "environment" interacts significantly with the genetics of the plant resulting in distinctiveness. Not better or worse, but distinctiveness.


OK, if I got seeds from a Cuban plant, and grew them in Iowa, would they be Cuban or Iowan.
You'd have Iowan tobacco grown from Cuban seed.

Wilkey
 
Welcome to CigarPass.



Wilkey

Do you realize how many more hours of research you have added to the already long list of things to learn?!?!?! :thumbs:

Thank you everyone for your concise replies and for holding back the flames. I learn something new every time I log onto CP.

Jeff


More Ovaltine please!
 
OK, if I got seeds from a Cuban plant, and grew them in Iowa, would they be Cuban or Iowan.

When one grafts Cabernet Sauvignon or Merlot vines from Bordeaux onto Californian rootstock, the wines produced are not the same due to differences in terroir. California Cabernet and Bordeaux wines can both be high quality, yet they are unique in flavor profile.

Nonetheless, why would we want NCs to taste like CCs? When I reach for a Nicaraguan cigar, I want it to taste like Nicaraguan tobacco. I value the fact that, after a few CCs, I can smoke something that is completely different in flavor.

Bryan has hit the big nail on the head !! I have always equated the fun of smoking many different cigars with the fun of tasting many different wines. Every year we are privileged to have several new cigars to try; some we like and some are dog rockets, but the excitement is in experiencing the new blends. Ain't life GREAT :D :D
 
I always thought the weed in them is what makes them so darn tasty :thumbs:
 
Forget about the mystique and simply enjoy the cigar smoking experience. Don't worry about Cuban cigars, fancy lighters, cutters and humidors. All you need is a good cigar at a good value. One which you enjoy and doesn't break your wallet. Later, if you decide you dig the cigar culture, you can accessorize with all the gizmos and gadgets many of us cigar enthusiasts fawn over.

There are countless great "domestic" cigars that are tailor made to a beginner's palate. I say that, because they are often of impeccable construction and are of consistent taste blend from box to box. The search for the "perfect" box code is one that flummoxes many Habano enthusiasts and is a quest I don't think a beginner should bother undertaking with zeal until they feel they are comfortable discerning barely perceptible nuances from each cigar of the same make.

Walk into your local B&M shop, shake the owner's/manager's/clerk's hand and introduce yourself. Tell them your budget, your likes and experiences, and let them guide you along your introductory path to cigars. They will guide you and also clue you in to new shipments and cigar developments. Regrettably, unless you are flush with cash or only smoke once in a while, you will have to turn your future bulk purchases to the internet for sheer cost savings considerations. Just never turn your back on that local B&M. A cigar or two from them every so often won't hurt you and will still keep you abreast of cigar industry developments.

And as far as growing Cuban tobacco seeds outside of Cuba, they will not taste the same. Living products are a result of both their genetics and their environment. DNA alone is not the end all influence in terms of "behavior". No different than people, really.
 
Top