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Well I guess we will have our schmale

Seavita said:
All that being said and as sure as it seems the Frau is above board, the truth is never as obvious as it seems. Certainly if the people at S.A. were "illegaly" purchasing the Italian clasps to save money, the certainly would not incriminate themselves to the Frau and face the penalties. So what seems obvious potentially could be a case of passing the buck. One would hope not but..........
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I was thinking the exact same thing. How exactly did she make this determination so confidently?
 
When you say S.A. you are basically saying Schmale, they have been working together now since the early 1800s.

And people you have to remember, they sell the hardware in bulk, so the price isn't so high that there is any need to buy from a source in violation of a contract.

*edit*

And Biochem... she flew directly to Cuba, the findings she allowed me to post was over 2 months of investigation work, and as I stated is far from over.
 
Wurm said:
When you say S.A. you are basically saying Schmale, they have been working together now since the early 1800s.

And people you have to remember, they sell the hardware in bulk, so the price isn't so high that there is any need to buy from a source in violation of a contract.

*edit*

And Biochem... she flew directly to Cuba, the findings she allowed me to post was over 2 months of investigation work, and as I stated is far from over.
Click to expand...


Fair enough, just wanted to state what I think was on peoples minds. ???
 
Seavita said:
Wurm said:
When you say S.A. you are basically saying Schmale, they have been working together now since the early 1800s.

And people you have to remember, they sell the hardware in bulk, so the price isn't so high that there is any need to buy from a source in violation of a contract.

*edit*

And Biochem... she flew directly to Cuba, the findings she allowed me to post was over 2 months of investigation work, and as I stated is far from over.
Click to expand...


Fair enough, just wanted to state what I think was on peoples minds. ???
Click to expand...

I have no problem with it :) It just doesn't make any sense for S.A. to try to cut corners on something as inexpensive as the box hardware at the same time that they are trying as hard as they can to combat the counterfeiters.

Every box of fakes cuts into S.A.'s profits.
 
my "canadian friend" just received a box(from 1997) from LCDH with italian clasp... Guess fake... huh?
 
I have seen the following:

Authentic boxes: Italy and Germany brooches - but never Spain
Counterfeit boxes: Italy and Spain brooches - but never Germany

The sample sizes are small so confidence is low but these patterns have been consistent so far.

Any contradictory specimens would be welcomed.

Wilkey
 
Ginseng said:
I have seen the following:

Authentic boxes: Italy and Germany brooches - but never Spain
Counterfeit boxes: Italy and Spain brooches - but never Germany

The sample sizes are small so confidence is low but these patterns have been consistent so far.

Any contradictory specimens would be welcomed.

Wilkey
Click to expand...
Sounds like I read(in your post) that legit boxes might have Italy clasps(as well as German).
Interesting thing is that:
1) Representative(ownwer) of Shmale company states that they have exclusive rights since 1911. So, how come that legit boxes could have Italian clasps?
2) Nobody tried to contact the manufacturer of clasps from Italy. Would be nice if someone would go for that. This way we could hear both sides of the story.
3) I have an answer from a reputable dealer and he states that all his boxes dated 1995-1998 have Italian clasps and no German clasps on any of that stock.
Would this statement change something?
4) German clasps are used on boxes for non-cuban cigars(as someone stated here). This brings me to just a speculation... If someone is creating fake box for cuban cigars wouldn't that be logical to use German clasps? Especially that these clasps are easily available?
Looks like I have too many questions... Oh, well, I guess we all have...
 
VotTak said:
Ginseng said:
I have seen the following:

Authentic boxes: Italy and Germany brooches - but never Spain
Counterfeit boxes: Italy and Spain brooches - but never Germany

The sample sizes are small so confidence is low but these patterns have been consistent so far.

Any contradictory specimens would be welcomed.

Wilkey
Click to expand...
Sounds like I read(in your post) that legit boxes might have Italy clasps(as well as German).
Interesting thing is that:
1) Representative(ownwer) of Shmale company states that they have exclusive rights since 1911. So, how come that legit boxes could have Italian clasps?
2) Nobody tried to contact the manufacturer of clasps from Italy. Would be nice if someone would go for that. This way we could hear both sides of the story.
3) I have an answer from a reputable dealer and he states that all his boxes dated 1995-1998 have Italian clasps and no German clasps on any of that stock.
Would this statement change something?
4) German clasps are used on boxes for non-cuban cigars(as someone stated here). This brings me to just a speculation... If someone is creating fake box for cuban cigars wouldn't that be logical to use German clasps? Especially that these clasps are easily available?
Looks like I have too many questions... Oh, well, I guess we all have...
Click to expand...

Vortex, I nominate you for this research!!!
 
Somehow I got lost at the end.

I thought it was determined that only clasps that said "Schmale / Germany" were authentic and all others were fake. Now Wilkey said there are legitimate boxes with "Italy" clasps???????
 
Thats what Wilkey says, I just sent Frau Schmale another email to ask... I will post her reply when I receive it.
 
Wurm said:
Thats what Wilkey says, I just sent Frau Schmale another email to ask... I will post her reply when I receive it.
Click to expand...
Not only Wilky... but also some reputable dealers from which my "canadian friend" :whistling: is usually buying.
 
Just received a box of SCDLH Oficios in the nice LCDH box, and lo and behold the clasp is.....
.
Schmale Germany.
Oficios003.jpg

Oficios007.jpg
 
After looking at all of my boxes that have clasps I found 1 - 1998 La Flor de Cano Coronas with a Clasp that reads "Fiochi Italy" on the inside. I read through this post & I was very confused and fearful that I had a fake box on my hands. The only thing I had to cling to was that there were others finding the "Italy" clasps. The source I received this box from is in my eyes very reputable and I have other boxes from them with "Schmale Germany" clasp

The only thing I can add to try to help in the research is that after borrowing a Jewelers Loop from a friend of mine I went through the "MRN" book looking for a box where I could see the inside of a clasp that was not from Germany. On Page 463 there is a box of 1996 Siboney Especiales where under magnification you can see "Fiochi Italy" on the inside of the clasp.

How this info helps I don't know??
 
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