To set the record straight.

[mrjinglesusa]

I asked the question after a few weeks on this forum and got an answer.

Guess I got lucky with who I was talking to.

It is bad form to ask the question to someone who you do not know, but it is also bad form to post PM's in public, is it not?

A simple reply to his question like "I do not know you and am not going to tell you anything." would have saved a bunch of drama.

Couple mistakes were made on both sides in my meaningless opinion.

Absolutely not. What some people refuse to understand about PMs and emails is that once the sender sends them to someone, it becomes the recipient's property and they are free to do with it what they want and the sender has no standing whatsoever.

People should consider that fact that ANYTHING they put in writing could wind up on the front page of the New York Times so THINK before you type and that INCLUDES PMs and emails.

Public sector employees (like teachers) should know this. EVERYTHING they write down while on the job, notes and schedules they keep are ALL subject to the Freedom of Information Act. They have to be much more careful than people employed in the private sector who also should treat anything in writing just as carefully. I sure hope altercall didn't send that PM to CohibaSurfer from a computer at the school he teaches at........

Scroto (SFG75) used to engage in extremely reckless behavior when he hadn't taken his meds. He'd post his vulgarities on cigar sites during the day from his computer at WORK (he was a teacher). :0 He's not a teaching at that school anymore......

Bottom line is altercall owes a huge apology to cohibasurfer AND this community as well for misrepresenting the truth and losing his temper. I don't think it's wise for altercall to address his disparaging comments about his students here but he may think about the possiblilty of having to do that with his employer if they find out.

I understand the legal aspect of such things, I was talking about forum etiquette on such matters.

Most forums frown heavily on such messages being aired. If they were meant to be public, they would have been posted in the open in the first place.

Again, just my meaningless opinion.

QFT.

Technically speaking, it would be in bad form to post a PM just for the sake of posting it, i.e., "Look what so and so said to me in PM!!". However, if the contents of a PM are being used to contradict what someone is posting publicly (as is the case here), I see nothing wrong with that.

BTW, in case you haven't noticed, CP is not like "most forums" - their etiquette and rules don't necessarily apply here at CP.

 

[bilder]

[quote name='cohibasurfer' post='612276' date='Feb 11 2008, 04:12 AM'][quote name='5 O'Clock Somewhere' post='612248' date='Feb 11 2008, 12:34 AM']Guys, I'm new here and for the most part love it, but this crap really brings down the entire vibe of the board. Everyone talks about the community and calls everyone else brother, all endearing words, yet in some cases there's animosity on this forum that I've never seen on ANY other forum (of which I have been associated with many). There's not a single target to point out here, because you can't have an argument if one person doesn't argue back, but this thread alone has countless examples of people disregarding all concern for their fellow human being. It just baffles me, because I think we all know that these confrontations would never happen in person. These are fights that (at least as of the last couple weeks, and for sure in this scenario) would never take place if it wasn't for the wall of protection a monitor and keyboard provide. I'm not exactly what I would call a pacifist, but I also don't go out of my way to personally attack someone, IN SPITE of any mistakes they may have made. If someone f's up, I would figure it to be far more productive to constructively and perhaps cautiously point them in the right direction rather than roasting them. This is even more true when we're talking about benign things, incidents that are too stupid to mention, and in all honesty could easily be outright ignored. I'm not recommending anyone act like a puss, I just think it reflects really poorly upon both parties when people make intentionally cruel comments towards one another.

That's really all there is to it. I've already been shown a lot of generosity in my brief stint on these boards, and I really like most of the things having to do with CP. This idea that some people think acting like a jerk is a way of defining good moral character is really beyond me.

Alright, now everyone can go ahead and bust my balls and call me out for being a newb, but I really just felt compelled to let my feelings on the topic be known. I know, read more and post less, but I feel this was worth posting.[/quote]

You know what 5 O'Clock? Let's go over your post. Ok... so your new to this board, closin' in on about a month tenure. And you love it here "for the most part". You claim you've been associated with MANY cigar boards. But CigarPass has some cases of animosity that you haven't seen on any, wait, "ANY" other forums. I'm going to stop here for a second before we continue. I'm looking for a way to say this, my Texan Brother, that doesn't get you any more disheartend. Hmmmm... Lets see.... how about bullsh!T, lowercase. Not to be confused with BULLSH!T uppercased, but.... bullsh!t. Ohhh I'm buyin' the new to the board. I'm buying you love it here too. But in the cases of animosity you've witness here at CP being worse than all these trillions of other boards you have been a part of , sorry I didn't want to sell you short, in your, by the way your profile says your 21, vast years of experience, I call bullsh!t. Now let's continue. Let's go forward with the productivity of "cautiously" pointing people in the right direction when they "f' up. Oh hell, let's use me 'cohibasurfer' and 'Alterboy's little confrontation shall we? I mean, this is where you posted your idea, so let's run with it. He posted on my thread a question. I answered his question. No name calling. No animosity. Just a rule and an explanation. Things went a little south from there, and I hope you took the time to investigate it before you drew your conclusion, and was compelled to post that you think someone is acting like a, and I quote, "JERK". Well even if you didn't, you certainly have lived up to what you are expecting everyone else to do, aren't ya? I mean, that's a cautious way of pointing someone in the right direction. Now let's say you were to have left off the part of "defining good moral character". You'd still be pretty much a hypocrite. And that kinda makes your whole post a load of crap. But, it did make you feel better, and I'm sure bigger too. So in essense, it fulfilled it job, wouldn't you say? But not quite like you wanted to preach huh?

Thanks for sharing! And that's what bulletin boards are for.
[/quote]

I read the posts in question and he apologized for calling you a jerk a couple of times. You ignored his apology and continued to bust his chops.

Here is his apology.

He did it again in the PM you posted.

 

[cohibasurfer]

[quote name='bilder' post='612307' date='Feb 11 2008, 06:24 AM'][quote name='cohibasurfer' post='612276' date='Feb 11 2008, 04:12 AM'][quote name='5 O'Clock Somewhere' post='612248' date='Feb 11 2008, 12:34 AM']Guys, I'm new here and for the most part love it, but this crap really brings down the entire vibe of the board. Everyone talks about the community and calls everyone else brother, all endearing words, yet in some cases there's animosity on this forum that I've never seen on ANY other forum (of which I have been associated with many). There's not a single target to point out here, because you can't have an argument if one person doesn't argue back, but this thread alone has countless examples of people disregarding all concern for their fellow human being. It just baffles me, because I think we all know that these confrontations would never happen in person. These are fights that (at least as of the last couple weeks, and for sure in this scenario) would never take place if it wasn't for the wall of protection a monitor and keyboard provide. I'm not exactly what I would call a pacifist, but I also don't go out of my way to personally attack someone, IN SPITE of any mistakes they may have made. If someone f's up, I would figure it to be far more productive to constructively and perhaps cautiously point them in the right direction rather than roasting them. This is even more true when we're talking about benign things, incidents that are too stupid to mention, and in all honesty could easily be outright ignored. I'm not recommending anyone act like a puss, I just think it reflects really poorly upon both parties when people make intentionally cruel comments towards one another.

That's really all there is to it. I've already been shown a lot of generosity in my brief stint on these boards, and I really like most of the things having to do with CP. This idea that some people think acting like a jerk is a way of defining good moral character is really beyond me.

Alright, now everyone can go ahead and bust my balls and call me out for being a newb, but I really just felt compelled to let my feelings on the topic be known. I know, read more and post less, but I feel this was worth posting.[/quote]

You know what 5 O'Clock? Let's go over your post. Ok... so your new to this board, closin' in on about a month tenure. And you love it here "for the most part". You claim you've been associated with MANY cigar boards. But CigarPass has some cases of animosity that you haven't seen on any, wait, "ANY" other forums. I'm going to stop here for a second before we continue. I'm looking for a way to say this, my Texan Brother, that doesn't get you any more disheartend. Hmmmm... Lets see.... how about bullsh!T, lowercase. Not to be confused with BULLSH!T uppercased, but.... bullsh!t. Ohhh I'm buyin' the new to the board. I'm buying you love it here too. But in the cases of animosity you've witness here at CP being worse than all these trillions of other boards you have been a part of , sorry I didn't want to sell you short, in your, by the way your profile says your 21, vast years of experience, I call bullsh!t. Now let's continue. Let's go forward with the productivity of "cautiously" pointing people in the right direction when they "f' up. Oh hell, let's use me 'cohibasurfer' and 'Alterboy's little confrontation shall we? I mean, this is where you posted your idea, so let's run with it. He posted on my thread a question. I answered his question. No name calling. No animosity. Just a rule and an explanation. Things went a little south from there, and I hope you took the time to investigate it before you drew your conclusion, and was compelled to post that you think someone is acting like a, and I quote, "JERK". Well even if you didn't, you certainly have lived up to what you are expecting everyone else to do, aren't ya? I mean, that's a cautious way of pointing someone in the right direction. Now let's say you were to have left off the part of "defining good moral character". You'd still be pretty much a hypocrite. And that kinda makes your whole post a load of crap. But, it did make you feel better, and I'm sure bigger too. So in essense, it fulfilled it job, wouldn't you say? But not quite like you wanted to preach huh?

Thanks for sharing! And that's what bulletin boards are for.
[/quote]

I read the posts in question and he apologized for calling you a jerk a couple of times. You ignored his apology and continued to bust his chops.

Here is his apology.

He did it again in the PM you posted.
[/quote]

You're ignoring a couple other things. Plus your link doesn't take you to his apology. Like I mentioned before, you might want to set this one out, or get up to speed.

 

[bilder]

The link takes you to this post:

Brian, you're right, I did go a little over with that comment. It's been a long day. To Michael, I apologize. My intent was not to have you share this with everyone, but rather to get you to answer my PM. It shocked me a little when you flatly admitted to ignoring it and posted what I construed as somewhat hostile.

Again, I was not trying to have anyone post up on any sources. I was wanting to ask in private, but was receiving no response. I guess I got impatient. Anyway, moving on.

Sitting out the rest of this particular train wreck per your request.......

 

[SamClemmons]

The link takes you to this post:

Brian, you're right, I did go a little over with that comment. It's been a long day. To Michael, I apologize. My intent was not to have you share this with everyone, but rather to get you to answer my PM. It shocked me a little when you flatly admitted to ignoring it and posted what I construed as somewhat hostile.

Again, I was not trying to have anyone post up on any sources. I was wanting to ask in private, but was receiving no response. I guess I got impatient. Anyway, moving on.

Sitting out the rest of this particular train wreck per your request.......

Yup. That's an apology alright.

It's one of those "I'm sorry but you're a dick" ones. "I'm sorry" with an explanation is an excuse not an apology.

AND... Michael doesn't have to accept an apology AND... who the hell are you to say he does. It's NONEYA.

NA

 

[cohibasurfer]

The link takes you to this post:

Brian, you're right, I did go a little over with that comment. It's been a long day. To Michael, I apologize. My intent was not to have you share this with everyone, but rather to get you to answer my PM. It shocked me a little when you flatly admitted to ignoring it and posted what I construed as somewhat hostile.

Again, I was not trying to have anyone post up on any sources. I was wanting to ask in private, but was receiving no response. I guess I got impatient. Anyway, moving on.

Sitting out the rest of this particular train wreck per your request.......

Nope it doesn't! It takes you to post #37. And before you go, can I ask you why you keep coming back taking up Alterboys plight of innocense? Just what is your perspective gain?

 

[grateful1]

personally [/b]attack anyone.
Do you just go after whole groups?

What do you think happened when you added onto this thread?
You attacked the people who posted.
You said the posts contained 'intentionally cruel comments' and that the situation is 'stupid'....these are a commentary on someones character - you are saying they are cruel and stupid...this is an attack.

There may be some animosity but there's also a lot of love and brotherhood the type of which you will not find on most fourms!

 

[bilder]

The link takes you to this post:

Brian, you're right, I did go a little over with that comment. It's been a long day. To Michael, I apologize. My intent was not to have you share this with everyone, but rather to get you to answer my PM. It shocked me a little when you flatly admitted to ignoring it and posted what I construed as somewhat hostile.

Again, I was not trying to have anyone post up on any sources. I was wanting to ask in private, but was receiving no response. I guess I got impatient. Anyway, moving on.

Sitting out the rest of this particular train wreck per your request.......

Nope it doesn't! It takes you to post #37. And before you go, can I ask you why you keep coming back taking up Alterboys plight of innocense? Just what is your perspective gain?

If you insist.

The link does take you to post #36 at the top of your screen. Just double checeked the post ID's and it is right. If you are seeing #37, just scroll up one post and it is there. Not exactly rocket science.

I am not taking up anyone's case here. Just trying to point out that an attempt was made to rectify the situation and it was ignored because it did not meet your criteria for whatever reason.

I have seen this happen around here several times. Someone makes a mistake and you guys keep busting their chops about it till either they leave the board or you get bored with them and move on to another target. All that does is loose a member of this board who really did nothing wrong other than talk to one of the resident assholes. Sorry, but there is not other way to put it. Some of you guys are assholes and seem to enjoy it.

I have also seen the reverse where one of the resident assholes will insult another member. When that member asks for an apology (just like you are in this thread) they are met with hostility and again, badgered until they leave. Their only crime was asking for an ounce of respect. Seems there is a double standard with some of you. You demand respect, yet you give none in return.

I understand that you feel insulted and I understand that you feel an apology is owed to you. I would agree with you on that point. But will it really end there? If past practice is any indication, I would say no.

And that is yet again, just my meaningless opinion.

 

[Jonesy]

All that does is loose a member of this board who really did nothing wrong other than talk to one of the resident assholes. Sorry, but there is not other way to put it. Some of you guys are assholes and seem to enjoy it.

Damn Michael, now you're a jerk AND an asshole!

 

[amateuraficionado]

??? This is not going to end well. I've got the popcorn.... who's bringing the coke?(cola ya bastids!) :sign:

 

[Diesel Grinch]

bilder,

It's simple when you screw up you need to fix it and say your sorry. No excuses! We all have issues. If your having issues then don't post or be around. Your friends will come looking for you to see what's up. They will help if they can. That's what a friend is and does.

But when you say, "I'm sorry but I sat on my balls that why I said something stupid." Your just making excuses. It doesn't matter what the reason behind your mistake was. A simple I'm sorry it won't happen again and leave it at that is best. This says you know your wrong and your not trying to weasel yourself out of being wrong and make yourself look right. It also goes a long way when you make things right. I'm not saying to buy your way into someone's good graces (This works well on Matt R. :sign: ) How to make things right depends on situation.

Really none of this should be explained. All should just know what to do and how to behave themselves. It's about personal responsibility and knowing right from wrong.


DG


edit: grammer

 

[mrjinglesusa]

All that does is loose a member of this board who really did nothing wrong other than talk to one of the resident assholes. Sorry, but there is not other way to put it. Some of you guys are assholes and seem to enjoy it.

And that is yet again, just my meaningless opinion.

And again, QFT.

And what's wrong with "loosening" a member of the board? If they are tight, I don't see anything wrong with a little "loosening" now and then. :sign:

Some advice, take it or leave it: you're digging yourself a hole here and it's getting deeper every post you make. Stop while you still have a chance to climb out of it.

 

[preembargo]

Jeez all of this self rightous BS is giving me a headache!

Those who don't personally interact either on the board or in person with one or both of the brothers who are having the issue should just stop and step away from the keyboard and stop making comments about "Moral Character" and the way issues are dealt with here.

After three years of watching Cohibasurfer's contribution to this community there is NO DOUBT for me that he is a Brother of absolutly impeccable character. As well, I know altercall personally and know him to also be a Brother of high moral character.

The fact is, Michael has what he (and other informed Brothers) believes to be a legitimate issue with Jay. This is something that I know the two can and will work out. The rest of this thread is just flotsom.

 

[bilder]

You guys are right. Should have kept my mouth shut and ignored this whole thing.

I am done with this thread. I stated my opinion and it is just that- my opinion.

Apologies to anyone I upset.

 

[cohibasurfer]

The link takes you to this post:

Brian, you're right, I did go a little over with that comment. It's been a long day. To Michael, I apologize. My intent was not to have you share this with everyone, but rather to get you to answer my PM. It shocked me a little when you flatly admitted to ignoring it and posted what I construed as somewhat hostile.

Again, I was not trying to have anyone post up on any sources. I was wanting to ask in private, but was receiving no response. I guess I got impatient. Anyway, moving on.

Sitting out the rest of this particular train wreck per your request.......

Nope it doesn't! It takes you to post #37. And before you go, can I ask you why you keep coming back taking up Alterboys plight of innocense? Just what is your perspective gain?

If you insist.

The link does take you to post #36 at the top of your screen. Just double checeked the post ID's and it is right. If you are seeing #37, just scroll up one post and it is there. Not exactly rocket science.

I am not taking up anyone's case here. Just trying to point out that an attempt was made to rectify the situation and it was ignored because it did not meet your criteria for whatever reason.

I have seen this happen around here several times. Someone makes a mistake and you guys keep busting their chops about it till either they leave the board or you get bored with them and move on to another target. All that does is loose a member of this board who really did nothing wrong other than talk to one of the resident assholes. Sorry, but there is not other way to put it. Some of you guys are assholes and seem to enjoy it.

I have also seen the reverse where one of the resident assholes will insult another member. When that member asks for an apology (just like you are in this thread) they are met with hostility and again, badgered until they leave. Their only crime was asking for an ounce of respect. Seems there is a double standard with some of you. You demand respect, yet you give none in return.

I understand that you feel insulted and I understand that you feel an apology is owed to you. I would agree with you on that point. But will it really end there? If past practice is any indication, I would say no.

And that is yet again, just my meaningless opinion.

LMAO! I figured you'd try and step up to the plate. Problem is, you don't know where it's at. You can't just walk onto the field and stand anywhere you want with a bat! You've made yourself look rather foolish now. But maybe that's how you want to be perceived. Fine by me. I've been called worse by better. I think anything you don't understand becomes an a$$hole to you. I'm sure that's alot out here in this big 'ol world in your eyes.

I can see by this post, you still don't know what's going on. You think it's about someone calling me a jerk. Well, wrong. Your mind is like a steel trap. Nothing gets in, and nothing gets out. So go on back to the bench. If we get enoughs runs, we'll let you have an at bat. Ohh.. and tie your shoe. I don't want you to fall in the dugout and hit your head, it'll crack the cement. :thumbs:

Ok... post 36... he said it's right above 37... if I scroll up.... I should...

 

[5 O'Clock Somewhere]

Alright, apparently that was a complete waste of my time. I was under the impression that I was being reasonable. I wasn't making a personal attack, or a group attack, it was more of a commentary. It really just seems like some people look for any possible reason to rip someone a new one. Sometimes it really isn't justified.

And by other boards I meant other forums in general, not other cigar boards.

 

[cohibasurfer]

[quote name='5 O'Clock Somewhere' post='612366' date='Feb 11 2008, 09:23 AM']Alright, apparently that was a complete waste of my time. I was under the impression that I was being reasonable. I wasn't making a personal attack, or a group attack, it was more of a commentary. It really just seems like some people look for any possible reason to rip someone a new one. Sometimes it really isn't justified.

And by other boards I meant other forums in general, not other cigar boards.[/quote]


Give me the bat.... go sit with bilder.

 

[vin#]

Jay is a good person, but this is surprising...

 

[SamClemmons]

Sometimes it really isn't justified.[/color]
And by other boards I meant other forums in general, not other cigar boards.

In your opinion sometimes it isn't justified. In MY opinion most of the time it is. In your opinion some people look for any possible reason to rip on someone. In my opinion there are no people who do that here. In your opinion there are kinder, gentler boards. In my opinion I think you should go there and make nice.

NA

 

[5 O'Clock Somewhere]

In your opinion some people look for any possible reason to rip on someone. In my opinion there are no people who do that here.

:sign: false