• Hi Guest - Come check out all of the new CP Merch Shop! Now you can support CigarPass buy purchasing hats, apparel, and more...
    Click here to visit! here...

The Wrapper-Flavor Conundrum: A New Twist

Ginseng

Banned
Joined
Oct 2, 2005
Messages
8,803
Just how much does the wrapper contribute to the overall flavor of a cigar?

This is one of those questions that has puzzled cigar smokers and students of the cigar for about as long as there have been cigars. In my reading of historical documents such as American newspapers from as far back as the early 19[sup]th[/sup] century, people have attempted to describe and explain the contribution of the wrapper. Simply, when asked "how much do you think the wrapper contributes to the flavor of the cigar" the answers people give have spanned the range from near zero to almost totality. In other words, from about 5% to 95% is the broad range with 20-70% covering the majority of opinions.

The obvious question, then, is how can this possibly be? How is it that one guy feels the wrapper is almost superfluous to the sensory aspect of smoking a cigar when another believes that the wrapper IS the cigar? One clue is to be found in the nature of the talk on this issue. Past discussions have tended to focus on differences. Differences by cigar ("sweet, earthy" maduro wrappers versus "spicy" Cameroon) and differences by smoker ("smoke what you like," "YMMV," supertaster/average taster).

Various theories have been advanced to account for this broad range of effect. For example, some draw the analogy of the wrapper to that of spices used in cooking. In essence, a minute amount of something particularly characteristic (e.g., allspice or nutmeg in mulled apple cider) can create the overall holistic impression of "flavor" that just wouldn't be the same without that ingredient. In other words, a small amount of distinctive character can serve to bind the component flavors of the blend into a coherent and characteristic profile. Others have tried to reason from the mechanics of the cigar. Calculations have shown that the wrapper typically comprises about 5%, by volume (somewhat more, by weight) of a cigar. So if there really is so little "stuff," how could it possibly have any more than a tiny influence if indeed any at all?

Well, a colleague of mine recently shared some information that, I think coupled with the ensuing discussion, recasts the puzzle of the contribution of wrapper in a new light. He is a frequent traveler to The Island and is what I would consider "well-connected." I've gotten his permission to share his data. I've also edited his post for conciseness.

I carried out a survey of the Cuban rollers and cigar industry officials that I have come to know, to come up with a consensus. It was a rather interesting investigation.

Here are their answers to the question "how many percent do you attribute the wrapper to total taste of the cigar."

1. Enrique Mon (torcedor): 4-6%
2. Elia Dominguez (Level 9 torcedor from 5th Ave): 5-8%
3. Rodolfo Taboada (torcedor): 2-3%
4. Jose Cueto (torcedor): 5% maximum
5. Reynaldo (torcedor From LCDH Conde de Villanueva): 3-4%
6. Norma Fernandez (formerly Fidel Castro's personal roller and roller of the Cohiba Behike): 5% Maximum
7. Rosa Salazar (Level 9 torcedor from H. Upmann): 5-6%
8. Lazarus (Director of the RyJ factory): 5-7%
9. Edelsio (Assistant director of El Laguito): 3-8%

I calculated an overall average of 4.9%. W.

We happen to walk in the tasting session at H. Upmann one early morning and I talked to few of the panel, all women, and I asked Xiomora, Norma and couple of others the question. They were dumbfounded by the question. They thought the wrapper doesn't contribute much if any. And one thing that they all echoed is that the wrapper is just the outer clothes that the cigar wears. Some thought that perhaps the color of the wrapper can trick the smoker psychologically into thinking that it actually has a bigger impact.

An interesting test that Taboada suggested is to try to take the first inch of the wrapper off the foot of the cigar and see if you can tell the difference when it reaches the wrapper. He said he couldn't.
On the face of it, this sounds like those who are actually involved in making our beloved Habanos attribute almost no significant influence of the wrapper to the taste of the cigar. Curiously, in a semi-controlled experiment carried out by a person in the cigar industry, whom I consider to have a knowledgeable palate, the findings were that in the case of a Cohiba Robusto and Cohiba Maduro5 Genios wrapper swap, the wrapper contributed the entirety of the essential character of the cigar.

Here are some comments in response to this information that I found interesting.

What is a % of flavor? How do you measure such a thing? Seems to me that we may all have the same opinion but different ways of wording it. It is tough to objectively quantify subjective qualities.

The wrapper surely has an influence - and if it might just be psychological, e.g., in case of a Cohiba Maduro5 Secretos. As it is a rather thin cigar, we would be persuaded to believe the wrapper to have a more intense impact on the overall taste. (If it already looks like chocolate and espresso, why shouldn't it taste like that...)

I think that much of the flavor profile from a cigar comes from all of a person's senses, not just taste. For me, if I see a darker wrapper, I automatically think it will be stronger than a lighter shade wrapper. The Cuban EL that I have had usually have a bumpy dark wrapper, and the rough appearance also makes me think of a stronger cigar. I have never conducted a test on tastes of wrappers, but for me and in my head, light wrapper = lighter (bodied) cigar, dark wrapper = stronger cigar. These thoughts come into my mind well before the cigar is ever burning.

Hmmm... I dont see how master rollers are qualified to judge the taste of a cigar? That's like asking a mechanic about driving. The fact that they perfectly build the car doesnt mean they can drive it well. Also, they only smoke fresh cigars, anyway. The way I see it is that it is not the taste of the wrapper itself that you taste, but the difference in overall taste that results from a different wrapper, just like salt in food.

Between the 9 people that were mentioned, collectively, there are at least 400 years of experience in rolling, blending, marketing and directing in the cuban cigar industry not to mention the comments of the tasters, that a whole cigar industry depends on. I humbly bow down to their opinion on this matter even if I think I can drive better than them. They may not have the ultimate say on the matter but perhaps we can all agree that they know a thing or two about cuban tobacco more than we do.

Wrapper volume as % of total volume:
Robusto - 4.98%
Churchill - 5.29%
Lancero - 6.53%
So as expected the thinner ring gauge stick has a higher percentage of wrapper by volume. If you consider that the actual volume of the cigar isn't solid tobacco (it also contains various air spaces to allow the thing to function and smoke to come out) and that the volume of the wrapper is a solid sheet of tobacco, these percentages are actually higher. That would most likely put the wrapper volumes very close to, if not a bit higher than, the 7-8% the rollers estimate the wrapper contributes to flavor.
At this point, it occurred to me that there might be a new way to look at the problem of wrapper contribution. But before I offer up my ideas, I'd like to hear what my fellow CigarPassers think about all this.

It is my hope that this data and the ensuing discussion will allow us to come to a new, more nuanced understanding of the situation.

Wilkey

This post has been edited by Ginseng: May 20 2008, 01:46 PM
 
Good Lord Wilkey..... I just asked what it was. Now I'm even afraid to hear your opinion! :sign:

Seriously though, with the admittedly little knowledge I have of the subject, I have to HUMBLY disagree with such low numbers as a wrapper's % of contribution to the overall taste of a cigar. I do believe it is much higher. I performed a basic experiment where I swapped the wrappers of two cigars and smoked them. The result was interesting if nothing else with a noticeable difference in the flavor of each. I'm also planning on doing several more in the near future. There is also another member who I don't want to call out, but he has done more extensive experimentation of this and I think it would be very interesting to see what his experience has been.

While I do agree that one certainly conjures preconceived assumptions about the strength and taste of a cigar upon visually observing it's color, texture, tooth and other physical properties, once you begin smoking, those assumptions are either confirmed or denied. I believe these physical properties contribute more to the anticipation of the experience than the actual experience. This is all just imvho. In all seriousness Wilkey, I can't wait to hear your take on it.


edited just to add: One common example many can probably quickly reference personally is thinking about the difference between your favorite hemingway maduro and it's cameroon conterpart. How different is the taste of these two cigars? Think about it.
 
Wilkey

A very interesting line of thought you have brought up. So I guess what you are saying is that I like the thought of a Sumatra wrapper and not really the wrapper itself. It does make sense to me though. I always wanted to know how the smallest percentage of leaf made up so much of the flavor. I just took all the information at face value I guess, not knowing enough to know better.

I can tell you that I will be watching this thread to see whhat comes out of it.

Thanks once again for all that you contribute

Tim
 
I liked the idea of removing part of the wrapper. What about smoking some of the wrapper leaf itself to get what flavor component it adds to the cigar as well.

Thanks Wilkey, looking forward to following and participating in this thread :thumbs:


:cool:
 
I'm curious to read what your "new way of looking" is WW.

I remember being really surprised at the results of the Coro/Genios wrapper swap - that wrapper could make that big a difference - but taking it seriously because I'm often in agreement with the guy who smoked them on tasting matters, and because of his significant experience.

As subjective as all of this is, I'd be surprised if there was a simple, affordable way to quantify how much wrappers/binders/fillers contribute to the smoking experience.

I've settled (for now) with the notion that, as with any other recipe, it's all of the ingredients together that make the dish. Pesto lacking pinenuts, or olive oil, or garlic, or basil, or a bit of parm isn't pesto...
 
The best way to test this theory would be to smoke cigars with the same blend, various wrappers and do it blind-folded.
As stated in Wilkeys post, the look of the wrapper and the impression of what you expect will greatly influence the outcome.
 
I've had cigars that tunneled on me and where the wrapper didn't burn at all. In these instances the cigar was bitter until I relit and the wrapper burned with the filler and binder and the cigar recovered. I suppose in these cases you could argue that the wrapper was 100% responsible for the flavor since it was a terrible cigar without it and pretty good with it. But in an evenly burning cigar, if you took, say, a Cameroon wrapper off and put a Connecticut Broadleaf on the change would be much less noticable. So I guess I would concur that the 5% would about right.
 
Very interesting point of conversation, this should be great reading!


I'm of the opinion that a particuliar cigar blend would be considerably different, given a change in wrapper. How a cigar tastes as a whole is surely what the blender was shooting for, regardless of the percentage of flavor added solely by the wrapper.

That being said, I have had cigars come completely unwrapped, and continued to smoke them, I would have to say, they were considerably more than 5~7% "Different"


Dennis~
 
I've had cigars that tunneled on me and where the wrapper didn't burn at all. In these instances the cigar was bitter until I relit and the wrapper burned with the filler and binder and the cigar recovered. I suppose in these cases you could argue that the wrapper was 100% responsible for the flavor since it was a terrible cigar without it and pretty good with it. But in an evenly burning cigar, if you took, say, a Cameroon wrapper off and put a Connecticut Broadleaf on the change would be much less noticable. So I guess I would concur that the 5% would about right.

The emboldened print is consistently my experience with almost every cigar I smoke. When a cigar has an uneven burn, for me, the flavor is noticeably negatively impacted until the burn is corrected. While I don't contend that the wrapper is 100% responsible for the flavor, it certainly accounts for a substantial portion of it.
 
Since the filler is a blend of tobaccos I am curious to know what percentage each type of tobacco in the blend contributes to the total tobacco in the cigar. Does any one type of tobacco comprise the majority of the total? Even though the wrapper contirbutes only a small percentage of the total, how does that compare to the amount of other tobaccos?

I think one would have to look at it in this way to determine how great an effect the wrapper has on the taste.
 
Tick one for the "spice" theory. ;)

Throw in a generous helping of Geri Halliwell and I'm down with the "Spice" theory. :D

My palate is not of his caliber...

We'll have to argue that sometime over a cigar. Both of you really know your stuff.

And as for a simple method, I'm not going to hold my breath...I will take a puff. :p

Oy

Vey
 
Interesting article Wilkey, I'm looking forward to the discussion this brings up. I have one probably stupid question regarding this portion of the article:

I carried out a survey of the Cuban rollers and cigar industry officials that I have come to know, to come up with a consensus. It was a rather interesting investigation.

Here are their answers to the question "how many percent do you attribute the wrapper to total taste of the cigar."

1. Enrique Mon (torcedor): 4-6%
2. Elia Dominguez (Level 9 torcedor from 5th Ave): 5-8%
3. Rodolfo Taboada (torcedor): 2-3%
4. Jose Cueto (torcedor): 5% maximum
5. Reynaldo (torcedor From LCDH Conde de Villanueva): 3-4%
6. Norma Fernandez (formerly Fidel Castro's personal roller and roller of the Cohiba Behike): 5% Maximum
7. Rosa Salazar (Level 9 torcedor from H. Upmann): 5-6%
8. Lazarus (Director of the RyJ factory): 5-7%
9. Edelsio (Assistant director of El Laguito): 3-8%

Do these "Cuban rollers" only roll cuban cigars, or does this list encompass folks that roll blends from Nicaragua, DR, Hondorus, etc.?
 
I'm of the opinion that a particuliar cigar blend would be considerably different, given a change in wrapper. How a cigar tastes as a whole is surely what the blender was shooting for, regardless of the percentage of flavor added solely by the wrapper.

That being said, I have had cigars come completely unwrapped, and continued to smoke them, I would have to say, they were considerably more than 5~7% "Different"

Dennis~
Are you saying that in the case that a certain cigar is available in several different wrappers (e.g., La Aurora Preferidos) that your expectation is the blend would necessarily have been adjusted to fit best with the given wrapper?

I have been told by those knowledgeable that in fact sometimes the blends are identical! Now I don't know how widespread or true in general this is, but it does not seem to be a secret.

Wilkey
 
I'm of the opinion that a particuliar cigar blend would be considerably different, given a change in wrapper. How a cigar tastes as a whole is surely what the blender was shooting for, regardless of the percentage of flavor added solely by the wrapper.

That being said, I have had cigars come completely unwrapped, and continued to smoke them, I would have to say, they were considerably more than 5~7% "Different"

Dennis~
Are you saying that in the case that a certain cigar is available in several different wrappers (e.g., La Aurora Preferidos) that your expectation is the blend would necessarily have been adjusted to fit best with the given wrapper?

I have been told by those knowledgeable that in fact sometimes the blends are identical! Now I don't know how widespread or true in general this is, but it does not seem to be a secret.

Wilkey

Not quite what I meant to say, but consider the differences between Hemingway naturals and Maduros, or Padron aniv Nats and maddies. If these are the same blend of filler/binder, then the wrapper, I would say, has a considerable effect on overall flavor.

Makes me wonder if a blender would smoke a particuliar blend WITHOUT a wrapper while developing a cigar?
 
Top