The Empire Strikes Back...the pass

[bully1875]

Without you, we'd have no Pass!

Ahh happy bday indeed..

Anyone have input on these P/T's?

 

[Gonz]

How do these T's and P's sound?

T: #20 LFD Salomon ($23)-->P: Opus X A ($25)
T: #36 Tatuaje Havana VI Lado Occidental ($10)-->P Tatuaje Havana VI Zona del Este ($10)
T: #39 Opus X Double Corona (2005) ($15)-->P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96)
T: #52 La Aurora 100 years Robusto ($9.90)-->P: Opus X Petit Lancero ($10)
T: #65 Padilla 32 Oscuro LE Torpedo ($29)-->P: Padron 1964 A ($32)

Very interesting p/t's here.. Im sure they will cause some discussions.. Here is my point of view..


T: #20 LFD Salomon ($23)-->P: Opus X A ($25) - The LFD's rarity factor (300 boxes of 10) is going to push it past the msrp and rarity of the A. Although the A's are damn scrumptious.. I will revisit this.
T: #36 Tatuaje Havana VI Lado Occidental ($10)-->P Tatuaje Havana VI Zona del Este ($10) - GOOD
T: #39 Opus X Double Corona (2005) ($15)-->P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) - MSRP's match, Im not sure there are too many places to buy the Opus and the 26 is easily available. I will revisit this.
T: #52 La Aurora 100 years Robusto ($9.90)-->P: Opus X Petit Lancero ($10) - GOOD
T: #65 Padilla 32 Oscuro LE Torpedo ($29)-->P: Padron 1964 A ($32) - MSRP matches, but I think the rarity factor may be off here. 64's are great sticks, but easily accessable. I will revisit this.

My comments are not meant to be discouraging, but an invitation for others to participate in discussion. IMO as far as taste and my personal prefrence for cigars, you hit the nail on the head, but unfortunatley it is not up to my taste to decide your P/T's.

I believe the Opus A's are not very easy at all to get either. While they are not as limited as that LFD, there is a $2 difference in msrp that I would feel makes up for it. One thing that might make a difference that I'm not aware of is what those LFD's actually sold for when they were released versus what Opus A's actually go for, and how many people can ever get them for msrp if at all.

I think the Opus DC is not as hard to find as other Opus, and the $3 difference in msrp makes up for the Padron being a little easier to find.

Just my $0.03.

And the 1964 A is not super easy to find, is it? Didn't they used to only be available in those 5-pack samplers?

 

[GregSVT]

Holt's has the 1964 A in packs of 5 or 10 and the 1926 #9 is typically a harder to find '26 than the rest of the vitolas. Looking over the P/Ts they look good to me. As Gonz said any rarity issues have been covered by price difference.

 

[bully1875]

T: #20 LFD Salomon ($23)-->P: Opus X A ($25) - GOOD, I feel that the rarity of the LFD still beats the A, but the MSRP is generous and the A is a great smoke.
T: #36 Tatuaje Havana VI Lado Occidental ($10)-->P Tatuaje Havana VI Zona del Este ($10) - GOOD
T: #39 Opus X Double Corona (2005) ($15)-->P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) - GOOD - I suppose the 26's are not that common, I just have really good B&M's
T: #52 La Aurora 100 years Robusto ($9.90)-->P: Opus X Petit Lancero ($10) - GOOD
T: #65 Padilla 32 Oscuro LE Torpedo ($29)-->P: Padron 1964 A ($32) - GOOD - After more research I found the A a bit harder to get then originally thought + MSRP is generous.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I wasthinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

 

[themoneycollector]

T: #20 LFD Salomon ($23)-->P: Opus X A ($25) - GOOD, I feel that the rarity of the LFD still beats the A, but the MSRP is generous and the A is a great smoke.
T: #36 Tatuaje Havana VI Lado Occidental ($10)-->P Tatuaje Havana VI Zona del Este ($10) - GOOD
T: #39 Opus X Double Corona (2005) ($15)-->P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) - GOOD - I suppose the 26's are not that common, I just have really good B&M's
T: #52 La Aurora 100 years Robusto ($9.90)-->P: Opus X Petit Lancero ($10) - GOOD
T: #65 Padilla 32 Oscuro LE Torpedo ($29)-->P: Padron 1964 A ($32) - GOOD - After more research I found the A a bit harder to get then originally thought + MSRP is generous.

I'm not in this pass, but just wanted to comment that these looked like good P/T's to me.

Taking the Padilla and putting a Padron A is extremely generous, since it should be more like a $10-15 stick once you factor out the humi tax on it. Trades #3 and #4 are pretty balanced out and as a whole, I'd say he's leaving the pass better than he received it.

 

[Jonesy]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I wasthinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

Here are my thought on these (I realize Bully has final say)

1) I don't know enough about the Museum Edition RyJ to comment on that one.
2) Even though there is age on the DC, I'm not sure it's a suitable trade partner for the Regalos.
3) Good
4) You lack rarity in the VSG to take the Opus PL
5) Good

 

[CigarMan Andy]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I wasthinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

Here are my thought on these (I realize Bully has final say)

1) I don't know enough about the Museum Edition RyJ to comment on that one.
2) Even though there is age on the DC, I'm not sure it's a suitable trade partner for the Regalos.
3) Good
4) You lack rarity in the VSG to take the Opus PL
5) Good

Here is some info on the Museum Edition RyJ < Link

 

[bully1875]

T: #20 LFD Salomon ($23)-->P: Opus X A ($25) - GOOD, I feel that the rarity of the LFD still beats the A, but the MSRP is generous and the A is a great smoke.
T: #36 Tatuaje Havana VI Lado Occidental ($10)-->P Tatuaje Havana VI Zona del Este ($10) - GOOD
T: #39 Opus X Double Corona (2005) ($15)-->P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) - GOOD - I suppose the 26's are not that common, I just have really good B&M's
T: #52 La Aurora 100 years Robusto ($9.90)-->P: Opus X Petit Lancero ($10) - GOOD
T: #65 Padilla 32 Oscuro LE Torpedo ($29)-->P: Padron 1964 A ($32) - GOOD - After more research I found the A a bit harder to get then originally thought + MSRP is generous.

I'm not in this pass, but just wanted to comment that these looked like good P/T's to me.

Taking the Padilla and putting a Padron A is extremely generous, since it should be more like a $10-15 stick once you factor out the humi tax on it. Trades #3 and #4 are pretty balanced out and as a whole, I'd say he's leaving the pass better than he received it.

Outside comments are welcome, thanks..

 

[The Green Monkey]

Thanks for the input, everyone.

The pass just arrived at my house. I have to take my wife to the airport, do some chores around the house, and get everything prepared for having my skateboarding crew over for Steak Bombs and skate movies tonight.

If I have time (and if I get a confirmation from Andy soon) to get everything turned around today, I will do so. Otherwise I'll try to get it back in the air tomorrow. I'll keep you all abreast (haha).

 

[ironpeddler]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I was thinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

Here are my thought on these (I realize Bully has final say)

1) I don't know enough about the Museum Edition RyJ to comment on that one.
2) Even though there is age on the DC, I'm not sure it's a suitable trade partner for the Regalos.
3) Good
4) You lack rarity in the VSG to take the Opus PL
5) Good

Here is some info on the Museum Edition RyJ < Link

I'll comment on the RyJ with what I have seen and heard. My B&M got a box last Fall and the whole thing is still intact with not a single cigar sold. From discussions there (from those who sampled it at cigar events) the consensus is that it's another dressed up $10 (at best) cigar. It didn't receive rave reviews when it was released and looks to be discounted soon. Now compare that to a proven track winner in the Opus A and I don't think the two are in the same league. I think there has to be some documented history on both ends to justify the trade and the Museum Edition doesn't have any.....other than it's high MSRP.

I agree with #2 on the rest....

 

[bully1875]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I was thinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

Here are my thought on these (I realize Bully has final say)

1) I don't know enough about the Museum Edition RyJ to comment on that one.
2) Even though there is age on the DC, I'm not sure it's a suitable trade partner for the Regalos.
3) Good
4) You lack rarity in the VSG to take the Opus PL
5) Good

Here is some info on the Museum Edition RyJ < Link

I'll comment on the RyJ with what I have seen and heard. My B&M got a box last Fall and the whole thing is still intact with not a single cigar sold. From discussions there (from those who sampled it at cigar events) the consensus is that it's another dressed up $10 (at best) cigar. It didn't receive rave reviews when it was released and looks to be discounted soon. Now compare that to a proven track winner in the Opus A and I don't think the two are in the same league. I think there has to be some documented history on both ends to justify the trade and the Museum Edition doesn't have any.....other than it's high MSRP.

I agree with #2 on the rest....

Sounds almost like a "high end" Gurkha. It's almost like an oxymoron. On the contrary I have read a few reviews and there are a few positive, but no one suggested paying the price tag.

Thanks for the input Gary.

 

[The Green Monkey]

If you're at all curious about heaven and hell, I can tell you that I'm pretty sure that there's a small part of hell modeled after a Miami post office on a Saturday morning.

It's on its way to Andy--DC # 0308 2690 0000 8972 3180

 

[bully1875]

Pass and stick list have been updated.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I was thinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

Here are my thought on these (I realize Bully has final say)

1) I don't know enough about the Museum Edition RyJ to comment on that one.
2) Even though there is age on the DC, I'm not sure it's a suitable trade partner for the Regalos.
3) Good
4) You lack rarity in the VSG to take the Opus PL
5) Good

Here is some info on the Museum Edition RyJ < Link

I'll comment on the RyJ with what I have seen and heard. My B&M got a box last Fall and the whole thing is still intact with not a single cigar sold. From discussions there (from those who sampled it at cigar events) the consensus is that it's another dressed up $10 (at best) cigar. It didn't receive rave reviews when it was released and looks to be discounted soon. Now compare that to a proven track winner in the Opus A and I don't think the two are in the same league. I think there has to be some documented history on both ends to justify the trade and the Museum Edition doesn't have any.....other than it's high MSRP.

I agree with #2 on the rest....

Sounds almost like a "high end" Gurkha. It's almost like an oxymoron. On the contrary I have read a few reviews and there are a few positive, but no one suggested paying the price tag.

Thanks for the input Gary.

I have to say this. We are not rating the sticks. MSRP is MSRP, and Rarity is rarity. If we are judging what the MSRP should be, then this pass will become a farce. I have seen both good and bad reviews on this stick. Yes, part of the value is the artwork that comes with it, but it is what it is. By the way, some of the Opus shapes go for much more than MSRP because of rarity and not the taste of the smoke.

So I ask, who sets the value of the sticks?

 

[bully1875]

I guess I will get started as well. Here are a few I was thinking of.

T Opus X A ($25)----->P RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00)
T #48 Hoyo de Monterrey Regalos Edicion Limitada 2007 ($9.50) ----> P Hoyo de Monterrey Double Corona 2002 ($9.96)
T #61 San Cristobal Fabuloso ($8.31) - P Hemmingway Classic Mauro ($8.80)
T Opus X Petit Lancero ($10.00) -----> P VSG Torpedo 2006 ($10.50)
T P: Padron 1926 #9 Maduro ($17.96) --------> P C.A.O. Soprano Tony Signature ($20.00)

Here are my thought on these (I realize Bully has final say)

1) I don't know enough about the Museum Edition RyJ to comment on that one.
2) Even though there is age on the DC, I'm not sure it's a suitable trade partner for the Regalos.
3) Good
4) You lack rarity in the VSG to take the Opus PL
5) Good

Here is some info on the Museum Edition RyJ < Link

I'll comment on the RyJ with what I have seen and heard. My B&M got a box last Fall and the whole thing is still intact with not a single cigar sold. From discussions there (from those who sampled it at cigar events) the consensus is that it's another dressed up $10 (at best) cigar. It didn't receive rave reviews when it was released and looks to be discounted soon. Now compare that to a proven track winner in the Opus A and I don't think the two are in the same league. I think there has to be some documented history on both ends to justify the trade and the Museum Edition doesn't have any.....other than it's high MSRP.

I agree with #2 on the rest....

Sounds almost like a "high end" Gurkha. It's almost like an oxymoron. On the contrary I have read a few reviews and there are a few positive, but no one suggested paying the price tag.

Thanks for the input Gary.

I have to say this. We are not rating the sticks. MSRP is MSRP, and Rarity is rarity. If we are judging what the MSRP should be, then this pass will become a farce. I have seen both good and bad reviews on this stick. Yes, part of the value is the artwork that comes with it, but it is what it is. By the way, some of the Opus shapes go for much more than MSRP because of rarity and not the taste of the smoke.

So I ask, who sets the value of the sticks?

Andy, no one is questioning the MSRP of the sticks. It is what it is. I think the discussion is the >= to factor as far as rarity goes, which in my opinion is evenly matched, however let this be a lesson for us that Andy has made a good point, we are not rating the quality of the stick, it is MSRP and rarity only. So with that being said does anyone have any input on the MSRP and rarity of this stick. I understand the point Gary and others have made where the reviews have come out subpar. And my B&M has a full untouched box as well, he cannot get rid of them. But maybe thats because it's an RyJ? The avg price is somewhere around $6 ~ $9 a stick and they are known for having a taste similar for the price (which is not bad), but then they come out with a $30 stick and maybe people are concerned they will be getting a subpar stick. IDK, im just trying to reason with why B&M's have full boxes of these.

 

[Jonesy]

I have to say this. We are not rating the sticks. MSRP is MSRP, and Rarity is rarity. If we are judging what the MSRP should be, then this pass will become a farce. I have seen both good and bad reviews on this stick. Yes, part of the value is the artwork that comes with it, but it is what it is. By the way, some of the Opus shapes go for much more than MSRP because of rarity and not the taste of the smoke.

So I ask, who sets the value of the sticks?

Andy, sometimes we have to rate the cigars instead of going by MSRP. I'm not saying this is what we should be doing in this particular instance, but in others, it has to be done. Take for instance Gurkhas and Graycliffs. Both have unbelievably high MSRP, but can be had much more cheaply than that. C-Bid and CI have taken care of that and because of it, most passes won't allow them because then the pass essentially is being "raped", but no one can say anything because MSRP says differently.

When talking about rarity, one has to ask, "how readily available is this cigar", "do I see it in my B&M", "when it is in my B&M, how quickly do people snatch them up", "if I was trading someone, would I take the cigar I'm offering for the one I want to take?". Yes, this is a limited edition cigar, but there isn't the same desire ( as shown by B&M's not being able to get rid of them) to obtain one of these as would be shown in an Opus.

When saying that the different Opus shapes go for a much higher price, you're right, because there is such a high demand for them amongst us smokers. In all honesty, when you see a box of Opus at your B&M, how long does it take before they are out? Most B&M's I've dealt with also limit your take on them. Do you think a B&M would object to anyone wanting the whole box of RyJ's? I would think they'd probably be happy to unload them.

Please don't take this as criticism either, just some advice from someone who has run 6 passes and been involved in countless others.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

I have to say this. We are not rating the sticks. MSRP is MSRP, and Rarity is rarity. If we are judging what the MSRP should be, then this pass will become a farce. I have seen both good and bad reviews on this stick. Yes, part of the value is the artwork that comes with it, but it is what it is. By the way, some of the Opus shapes go for much more than MSRP because of rarity and not the taste of the smoke.

So I ask, who sets the value of the sticks?

Andy, sometimes we have to rate the cigars instead of going by MSRP. I'm not saying this is what we should be doing in this particular instance, but in others, it has to be done. Take for instance Gurkhas and Graycliffs. Both have unbelievably high MSRP, but can be had much more cheaply than that. C-Bid and CI have taken care of that and because of it, most passes won't allow them because then the pass essentially is being "raped", but no one can say anything because MSRP says differently.

When talking about rarity, one has to ask, "how readily available is this cigar", "do I see it in my B&M", "when it is in my B&M, how quickly do people snatch them up", "if I was trading someone, would I take the cigar I'm offering for the one I want to take?". Yes, this is a limited edition cigar, but there isn't the same desire ( as shown by B&M's not being able to get rid of them) to obtain one of these as would be shown in an Opus.

When saying that the different Opus shapes go for a much higher price, you're right, because there is such a high demand for them amongst us smokers. In all honesty, when you see a box of Opus at your B&M, how long does it take before they are out? Most B&M's I've dealt with also limit your take on them. Do you think a B&M would object to anyone wanting the whole box of RyJ's? I would think they'd probably be happy to unload them.

Please don't take this as criticism either, just some advice from someone who has run 6 passes and been involved in countless others.

No offense taken, as I am still learning the pass process. I would also agree about Gurkha and Graycliff. I would never use the MSRP card with them. They are exceptions. The RyJ ME is a nice cigar, but not many people expect a RyJ to cost that much when the majority of their sticks are $6-$9, and so the shock of the price, thus lack of sale in my opinion. On the other hand, Opus go for $9 - $25 and so the price is expected and not a surprise. I will uphold what ever the final call is, but if you haven't tried one, you might be surprised.

 

[CigarMan Andy]

I will offer you guys a choice. While I type, I am enjoying one of my RyJ MEs. I don't want any hard feelings, so here is a choice.

The RyJ Museum Edition ($30.00) or Cohiba PIRAMIDES Edicion Limitada 2006 ($25.70)

You and Brian call it.

 

[The Green Monkey]

I forgot to mention earlier that #24 - Partagas Uno '77 (P: Bully1875, T: ) is looking a little haggard. I didn't want to mess with it much to examine it more closely though. It looked to me like it was still smokable, but it won't be winning any beauty contests...