The Bad Trader & Scumbag List

[NullSmurf]

Chris and Tom have some stuff to talk about. Lets just clear some space and let them handle it, public or private as they chose.

 

[BlindedByScience]

I think the whole flippin' board has been on edge lately, and everyone should take some deep breaths and calm the F down. Not everything that isn't clear is meant as a backhanded insult, for chrissake.....

DesertRat, your post clearly shows that you either (A) haven't read the rules and don't give a damn, or (B) read the rules and still don't give a damn. Rod has asked SPECIFICALLY for crap like that to stop. Bad form.

One opinion - B.B.S.

My jaw hits the floor. I've kept my mouth shut about you, Tom, for a long time. But I can't keep quiet when I see you writing crap like this. You really believe that statement? My experience with you proves otherwise;

1) Not owning up on your end of the box split (Cohiba Piramides). I sent you the half box and nothing from you.

2) Bitching and complaining about me not agreeing to your P/T's in my Newborn Pass. A Padron 80th doesn't equal a BBMF... sorry Tom. The rules for the pass were simple... just wait for my approval before sending it out and you didn't follow the rules. And then wanting me to settle it out of public view.

I have had some good experiences with you previously Tom and enjoyed our "friendship." I don't know what happened to you. But you need to get off the soapbox and take off your Sheriff's badge. You've got no right to tell people how to act when you don't practice what you preach. :whistling:


Sorry to all the others if this is considered a "threadjack."

Threadjack? How about a one sided bitch fest that should have been handled in PM. You're memory isn't quite right on the Cohiba's and the pass issue arose from what "MSRP" means and to my mind, it ain't what they charge at Casa Fuente.

No worries; if this is the forum you really want to air these issues in, I'm happy to oblige.

B.B.S.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Don't back down now, you bastard. You accuse me of ripping you off in public, you'd better have the gas to back that up.

I am pretty sure I still have the PM's that went back and forth over that exchange at home, in an archive. Believe me, when I get home, I'll dig for them.

Of course you forgot to mention that the exchange started when you asked me to send you some sticks first, which I did.

Why you'd wait over two years to whine and cry about this really something, but if this is the time and place to air this, let's get this done.

B.B.S.

 

[tomthirtysix]

Don't back down now, you bastard.

Ummm...

Last Seen: Today, 01:51 PM

Four minutes before your first post. Not exactly backing down. Also:

3.) No flaming or name calling. Flaming is when you opening slam another member for no reason. We do not tolerate any sort of flaming, name calling or personal threats.


Was it really necessary to call him a "bastard"?

 

[BlindedByScience]

Don't back down now, you bastard.

Ummm...

Last Seen: Today, 01:51 PM

Four minutes before your first post. Not exactly backing down. Also:

3.) No flaming or name calling. Flaming is when you opening slam another member for no reason. We do not tolerate any sort of flaming, name calling or personal threats.


Was it really necessary to call him a "bastard"?

Was it really necessary for him to call me a thief in thread?

Yes, the bastard comment is completely warranted.

Mind you own business, Tom......

 

[Rod]

Don't back down now, you bastard.

Ummm...

Last Seen: Today, 01:51 PM

Four minutes before your first post. Not exactly backing down. Also:

3.) No flaming or name calling. Flaming is when you opening slam another member for no reason. We do not tolerate any sort of flaming, name calling or personal threats.


Was it really necessary to call him a "bastard"?

Was it really necessary for him to call me a thief in thread?

Yes, the bastard comment is completely warranted.

Mind you own business, Tom......

Tom - Your behavior is a clear violation of our rules and you know it. This issue needs to be resolved without the childish name calling.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Oh, so anyone can call anyone else a thief in thread without any evidence, and that's OK....??

Good to know, Rod.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Tell you what, Rod. After thinking it over, I think you should just permaban me and call it good. I don't take threats or public personal insults well, and frankly, I might not respond with a lot of decorum next time someone calls me a thief without any evidence to the contrary. Your sticking up for him really speaks volumes. Why let the other side be heard, the facts known.....??

That way, next time you're over at your buddy Chris' house for a BBQ, you guys can hoist a drink and have a good chuckle about me being banned.

B.B.S.

 

[Rod]

Tell you what, Rod. After thinking it over, I think you should just permaban me and call it good. I don't take threats or public personal insults well, and frankly, I might not respond with a lot of decorum next time someone calls me a thief without any evidence to the contrary. Your sticking up for him really speaks volumes. Why let the other side be heard, the facts known.....??

That way, next time you're over at your buddy Chris' house for a BBQ, you guys can hoist a drink and have a good chuckle about me being banned.

B.B.S.

Don't be a martyr, Tom. Settle this like a man.

 

[jfields]

I don't think Rod stood up for Chris Tom. He just asked you to think about what you post.

As a matter of fact. I'm quite surprised. Everyone including Rod is standing back, not posting a bunch of schoolyard crap, waiting for you and Chris to work this out and see where it goes.

You need to go take a breather it seems.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Don't be a martyr, Tom. Settle this like a man.

Don't forget - I'm not the one who thread crapped a personal insult into someone else's thread, completely off topic.

Martyr, my ass. Chris is the one who blocked my PM's not the other way around. Next time, you might want to hear both sides of an issue before you take sides.

We live and die by out reputation, and I think everyone on these pages would say I'm a completely stand up guy......with one exception. Curious, don't you think....??

 

[Gonz]

Dude, chill out, I think you're typing very quickly out of anger right now. I don't think Rod has taken sides at all, he just had an issue with you calling Chris a bastard, that's it. I don't see where Rod said he agrees with Chris' accusation and that you'd better prove otherwise.

You've been around long enough and earned a whole hell of a lot of trust and respect here. No one that matters worth a damn to this forum is going to think otherwise of you unless it's proven beyond a doubt that what Chris has accused you of is true.

 

[BlindedByScience]

I don't think Rod stood up for Chris Tom. He just asked you to think about what you post.

As a matter of fact. I'm quite surprised. Everyone including Rod is standing back, not posting a bunch of schoolyard crap, waiting for you and Chris to work this out and see where it goes.

You need to go take a breather it seems.

You're right - being called a thief in public really pissed me off. A lot.

Why Chris chose this way to air his issues is beyond me, but if this needs to be aired in public, so be it. I thought this was water long under the bridge, but since he's questioned my integrity in public, I hope I'm afforded the chance to clear the air.

When I get home tonight, you can bet that I'll look for the PM's that went along with both events he's so concerned about. I hope I have them.

B.B.S.

 

[tone-ny]

Tom and Chris I consider you both friends as such I would ask if I can mediate this to get a resolution that would work for both of you.

I've hung out with both of you and know that you both are stand up guys!

 

[NullSmurf]

Tom and Chris I consider you both friends as such I would ask if I can mediate this to get a resolution that would work for both of you.

I've hung out with both of you and know that you both are stand up guys!

There you have it. It sure beats torches at 20 paces.

 

[BlindedByScience]

Tom and Chris I consider you both friends as such I would ask if I can mediate this to get a resolution that would work for both of you.

I've hung out with both of you and know that you both are stand up guys!

Thank you, Tony - I'd appreciate a cooler head because I sure don't have one now. I'll get you a very detailed PM this afternoon, and forward the relavent PM's from home tonight.

You may recall I had asked your advice previously on the pass issue....you may still have our PM exchange. Clearly, Chris doesn't consider it resolved.

Thanks again - B.B.S.

 

[insight]

Tom why don't you explain your side of this?

 

[BlindedByScience]

Tom why don't you explain your side of this?

I'm happy to. I thought it best if I could find the PM's that went along with this so I wouldn't have to guess at the exact dates, exactly what was said, what I sent, etc. I can't do that from work, but whatever the "group" thinks is best, I'm glad to share.

I have nothing to hide.

Edited to add - I also want to apologize to the group for going off in thread. His accusations are completely untrue, and to be called a "thief" in the open really pissed me off. Not an excuse for what happened, but rather an explanation.

I'd tried to work through Chris' and my disagreement in the past, but clearly he doesn't feel we reached resolution. He had blocked my PM's and made any contact impossible. Why he chose to air this in this manner is frustrating, and disappointing.

At this point, I want to be very sure of the facts, times, what was sent back and forth, etc. so the facts of both exchanges are crystal clear. I don't want to try to remember something that happened three years ago and make a mistake, only to be accused of trying to hide the truth when I have nothing to hide.

I'd prefer to take Tone-NY up on his offer and let him mediate it, but I'll accommodate the wishes of the forum and do what everyone thinks is best.

As I've said, I have nothing to hide and nothing to apologize for, other than the unfortunate outburst earlier.

Thanks - B.B.S.

 

[seadub]

Tom why don't you explain your side of this?

I'm happy to. I thought it best if I could find the PM's that went along with this so I wouldn't have to guess at the exact dates, exactly what was said, what I sent, etc. I can't do that from work, but whatever the "group" thinks is best, I'm glad to share.

I have nothing to hide.

Edited to add - I also want to apologize to the group for going off in thread. His accusations are completely untrue, and to be called a "thief" in the open really pissed me off. Not an excuse for what happened, but rather an explanation.

I'd tried to work through Chris' and my disagreement in the past, but clearly he doesn't feel we reached resolution. He had blocked my PM's and made any contact impossible. Why he chose to air this in this manner is frustrating, and disappointing.

At this point, I want to be very sure of the facts, times, what was sent back and forth, etc. so the facts of both exchanges are crystal clear. I don't want to try to remember something that happened three years ago and make a mistake, only to be accused of trying to hide the truth when I have nothing to hide.

I'd prefer to take Tone-NY up on his offer and let him mediate it, but I'll accommodate the wishes of the forum and do what everyone thinks is best.

As I've said, I have nothing to hide and nothing to apologize for, other than the unfortunate outburst earlier.

Thanks - B.B.S.

Tom... you called yourself a "thief." Those weren't words I used. And as for calling me a "bastard..." well, that's about the degree of class that I expected from you. I merely laid out the facts. You want me to post PMs... I'm happy to do so.

Fact is that I've seen you swinging your balls around for quite awhile and am astonished by what I hear. After 2 years (or whatever) of hearing your crap it seemed about the right time to air out (especially with the last post about calming down and not taking things as an insult [remember the tampon incident]...).

Don't be a martyr, Tom. Settle this like a man.

Don't forget - I'm not the one who thread crapped a personal insult into someone else's thread, completely off topic.

Martyr, my ass. Chris is the one who blocked my PM's not the other way around. Next time, you might want to hear both sides of an issue before you take sides.

We live and die by out reputation, and I think everyone on these pages would say I'm a completely stand up guy......with one exception. Curious, don't you think....??

True. I blocked Tom's PMs a long long long time ago. After his classless and tasteless antics I thought it better to eliminate him from my radar all together. I will continue to keep him blocked because there's nothing to say privately... only publicly at this point. I also took him off my friends list.

 

[BlindedByScience]

....sigh. I apologized for my outburst. No argument there.

Why you felt this has to be aired in public is beyond me, but I have nothing to hide. Since you've blocked the PM's and won't communicate with me 1:1, I suppose there's little choice but to get on with it. I'll dig though my PM archives when I get home tonight and believe I can post PM's documenting every step of the way here. As you said, this all happened over two years ago....more like three, as I recall.

1) Not owning up on your end of the box split (Cohiba Piramides). I sent you the half box and nothing from you.

Chris, you KNOW that's not true. The events, as I recall them went something like this:

- You and I do have done several box splits, lots of trades, bombed each other, all is well.
- You wants a 5-er of something I had (PLPC's as I recall). Nice, but not outrageous. I send them along (with a couple of PSD4 hitchikers, as I recall) and tell you to "send something back" and don't specify what.
- You sends something back alright - five (half a box) of Cohiba EL's.
- I contact you and tell you that's too much; way too lopsided of a trade. You told me you'd bought the box to celebrate our new Staebell humidors, not to worry about it, and tell me we'll do more trading in the future and that it'll all work out. NOT ONCE did you say "this is a box split, and your end is $X". If you would have, I'd have paid you as promptly as I've paid each and every other person on this board. I considered it a reverse bomb and your comments seemed to indicate same.
- Months pass; no issues nor contact. Did you ever contact me, even once, and say "Hey, Tom, did you forget about the box split?" No, as it wasn't a "box split" as I know them.

Do I "owe" all the guys that have bombed me? No more than they owe me for bombs send out. It was clearly, clearly a lopsided trade but the events soon to happen broke our communication down and prevented any further trades.

While the next events may seem to have little to nothing to do with what's transpired, I believe this is when you got pissed off at me.

- My Staebell shows up, and is beautiful.
- Your Staebell shows up, and you have issues with it. You posted a thread where you basically take Bob Staebell to task. Many, myself included, post a "give Bob a chance to make it right, and I'm sure he will" messages.
- Bob posts in thread, and presents his side of the story; a slightly different picture of the events. Basically, it didn't make you look good, did it Chris? As I recall, you didn't post for quite a while after that.

I believe you were PO'd at me (and several others) because we didn't "stick up" for you in that thread. Whatever.

2) Bitching and complaining about me not agreeing to your P/T's in my Newborn Pass. A Padron 80th doesn't equal a BBMF... sorry Tom. The rules for the pass were simple... just wait for my approval before sending it out and you didn't follow the rules. And then wanting me to settle it out of public view.

Yes, this was a bad misunderstanding. In my haste to send along the pass, I didn't wait for your P&T approval. Guilty as charged. You are correct that a BBMF is more expensive than a Padron 80th, and if you recall, I'd added other trades to the overall puts and takes I made to make up the difference. You told me that "you paid XX at Casa Fuente for that BBMF" and my comment was along the line of "well, that doesn't make my Anejo's worth $35.00 either" to which you took great offense. This is where you made your comments about "...sticking up for that jackass Bob Staebell...." which was a complete non sequitor given the subject we were discussing. At that point, I realized we were at an impasse, and asked you to send my puts back and I'd sent my takes back. A mulligan, as I saw it. Bad disagreement, but no long term harm done as you'd get your precious BBMF back and I'd get my sticks back. What I never figured out is why you took such personal offense to my suggestion that we just "undo" the put and take and call it good. Sure, post the PM's but if you do, be sure to post the complete PM's so the full picture can be seen. Did I screw up by not waiting for your approval? Yes, and I've admitted so time and time again. Why you got so enraged at my suggestion to return each others smokes is still something I still don't understand.

You also didn't mention that while we had this discussion, you brought up the Cohiba's. First time you'd made this an issue in years. Do you recall that I offered to send them back to you? Your reply was along the lines of "...keep the damn things as that's all our friendship was worth...". So, while I offered to return them to hopefully put and end to the misunderstanding, you refused them. Now, years later, you return to beat me over the head with them. I don't get it.

As far as working things out in private, I think it's always best unless there's a pattern of theft or deception. I would respectfully challenge you to find ONE other person on this board who I did wrong on a split, purchase, or any other transaction, ever. You won't find one as they don't exist. Oh sure, I'm sure there are folks that think I'm an asshole, but that's not because of a financial transaction where they were compromised. You're the only guy that has ever made such a claim.

I don't like drama, but I don't like being accused of things that didn't happen. I have said before and will say again that I'm sorry this misunderstanding has fostered such hatred and anger on your part, Chris. But, the truth is, I don't get it.

B.B.S.