Storing cigars in original cabs -- advantages, why?

[grateful1]

I knew you'd show! :thumbs:
Great information.

"In a cab, only the outer layer of a wheel is in contact or exposed to a wall."
Not true. All of the cigars are at a 'wall' - at least the head and foot. Some on the 'corners' don't even touch the box.
Ever notice how some cigars may be more moist at the foot...then nice in the middle.

Over time, in a controlled environment, an equilibrium is suppose to develop - the cigars giving and taking more or less oxygen/moisture. If one spot of the box is WET and stays that way...then that spot will be wet(think about the sheets!). Now, if it is moved to a stable environment, the wetness dissipates(although the stain remains!).

I don't really know if these answer your questions...but, it food for thought.

How'd I do?

 

[yardgnome02]

Following off grateful1

This presents a problem that cigars in the center will have a head/foot that aged quicker than the rest of the cigar, in theory this could add some shifts in the cigars taste. I just wonder if it would be so subtle that you could barley notice it.

 

[Ginseng]

Well done, Gary. Well done. Another piece of the puzzle falls into place. The answer is clear if you look at the bottom of a wheel. What do you see?

Regarding the attainment of equilibrium, again, right on. The ideal storage condition for a cab (or any box for that matter) at least in theory would be sealed at the box and free flowing and stable all around. Sealed at the box meaning, for example, a tightly fitting Cryovac bag. This keeps whats in the box (the aromatics and volatiles) where they belong, in the cigars. Free flowing and stable all around meaning the air that circulates around the box to be at constant temperature, stable humidity, and circulating to ensure evenness of conditions across the entire interior of the storage cabinet. The combination of the two will result in all boxes seeing stable external environment while buffering and encapsulating the internal (in-box) environment.

So what would this look like in practice. One prominent European collector keeps his cigar cabs in a large cabinet with several inches of air space around all sides of the cabs. The cabs themselves are propped up on corks to allow air flow underneath. Thus, conditions changes (opening the storage cabinet) affect all cabs uniformly and the cigars within a cab symmetrically. The only improvement to his system would be to Cryovac the cabs in the long term storage cabinet.

Wilkey

 

[Ginseng]

Following off grateful1

This presents a problem that cigars in the center will have a head/foot that aged quicker than the rest of the cigar, in theory this could add some shifts in the cigars taste. I just wonder if it would be so subtle that you could barley notice it.

Tantalizingly close! What do you see when you look up through the bottom of a wheel? Think...pipes.

Wilkey

 

[grateful1]

Following off grateful1

This presents a problem that cigars in the center will have a head/foot that aged quicker than the rest of the cigar, in theory this could add some shifts in the cigars taste. I just wonder if it would be so subtle that you could barley notice it.

In the short run....yes.
In 15-20 years...probably not.

From the reviews of some mid 80's cigars that I've seen, those are smoking grand!
I've also seen reviews of the late 90's and more contemporary. Most say they need some more time.

What of the cigars form the late 80's and early 90's?

Just a theory: they may not be ready.

I am truly theorizing as I have not smoked but a couple cigars from the 80's....the ones I have were grand!
Some of the cigars(smaller ring gauge) from the late 90's are also smoking well. The larger ones have tended to have a 'spot' or to the is not quite on.

So - send me some late 80's and early 90's smoke and I'll tell you how they compare!


:sign:



(oh yea, the cigars are NOT box pressed....so, you see thru!)

 

[yardgnome02]

The small "holes" between the cigars should allow some oxygen to reach all parts of the cigar allowing all the cigars to age almost evenly, but if thats the case then if you placed box-pressed cigars in a cab you would have the un-equal aging because air wouldn't have "Pipes" to travel through to the center of the cab.

 

[grateful1]

The small "holes" between the cigars should allow some oxygen to reach all parts of the cigar allowing all the cigars to age almost evenly, but if thats the case then if you placed box-pressed cigars in a cab you would have the un-equal aging because air wouldn't have "Pipes" to travel through to the center of the cab.

....and boxed pressed DB cigars tend to have less surface area!

 

[Jonesy]

Gary, you know you've just raised the bar.We're gonna need to start seeing informational posts with pictures and arrows from you now too!

 

[grateful1]

Gary, you know you've just raised the bar.We're gonna need to start seeing informational posts with pictures and arrows from you now too!

With 'a paragraph on the back of each one explaining what each one was'!

 

[Ginseng]

The small "holes" between the cigars should allow some oxygen to reach all parts of the cigar allowing all the cigars to age almost evenly, but if thats the case then if you placed box-pressed cigars in a cab you would have the un-equal aging because air wouldn't have "Pipes" to travel through to the center of the cab.

Give the man a cigar. In fact, give him five. Gnomie, PM me your address. :thumbs:

...because the channels are smaller. Nice showing by the Connecticut brother too.

Wilkey

 

[grateful1]

Well done Wilkey! :thumbs:

 

[Infinity]

Nice play Wilkey.

Still inconclusive though. Logical but speculative. :sign:

Brian

 

[mrrt]

Thanks for the awesome explanation guys. It really helps me understand aging and storage of boxed sticks.

a quick recap for me on box storage:

1. If the box comes shrinked...remove shrink before long term storage.

2. If the box is not shrinked, but still has paper seal intact. You should break seal and open box to examine the contents. This examination is more a physical quality type exam, not one that is required for proper aging, as the aging will occur naturally through the free flowing oxygen already in the box and oxygen absorbed by the box.

3. If the box is not a full box (already opened). The contnets will age naturally in the closed box. It is still good practice to occasionally open that box and rotate the content positions to ensure equal aging among sticks.


did that recap it correctly..>>??

art

 

[tigger]

LMAO @ Arlo Gipthry.

Somewhere about halfway through this thread, I began to wonder not about air passageways outside of the cigars (good thinkin' yardgnome), but those inside.

Might not boxpressing narrow the channels within the cigars, reducing the flow of air within them?

 

[mrrt]

I think boxpressing does narrow the channels and reduce some of the air flow, but I dont think you can ever reduce it to a point where it is so minimal that none or almost no air flow exists.

 

[grateful1]

I think boxpressing does narrow the channels and reduce some of the air flow, but I dont think you can ever reduce it to a point where it is so minimal that none or almost no air flow exists.

Have you smoked any 2000 Habanos?!?

:laugh:

 

[mrrt]

then its like smoking a stick...a real stick ( a tree stick)..??

 

[Ginseng]

LMAO @ Arlo Gipthry.

Somewhere about halfway through this thread, I began to wonder not about air passageways outside of the cigars (good thinkin' yardgnome), but those inside.

Might not boxpressing narrow the channels within the cigars, reducing the flow of air within them?

Hi Tim,

Strictly speaking, from a chemical engineering perspective, I am betting that there will be no bulk flow of air in the intracigar or intercigar spaces. The space is too small, too closed off from the external environment for there to be "air currents" in the common sense. In other words, if you were a tiny little tobacco beetle larva munching away inside a wheel of SLR DCs, you wouldn't feel any breeze on your cigar chomping face.

Movement of oxygen, moisture vapor, etc., would occur by molecular diffusion through the stagnant columns of air and air spaces. There are special quantities called dimensionless numbers and formulae for calculating diffusion through a stagnant air column but in essence, without air flow (movement, breeze, circulation, etc.) the only way that gases and such will move from place to place is through molecular motion. Each molecule moving on its own instead of schooling together like fish to form a "current."

Outside the cab, however, you WILL want currents and bulk motion to insure that conditions throughout the storage cabinet or cooler are uniform from top to bottom, side to side, and front to back. This is one reason why the use of battery operated Oust fans inside a cabinet or cooler is not a bad idea.

Wilkey

 

[jkim05]

Wilkey is the bomb. If there was team jeopardy, he'd definitely be on my team.

 

[tigger]

LMAO @ Arlo Gipthry.

Somewhere about halfway through this thread, I began to wonder not about air passageways outside of the cigars (good thinkin' yardgnome), but those inside.

Might not boxpressing narrow the channels within the cigars, reducing the flow of air within them?

Hi Tim,

Strictly speaking, from a chemical engineering perspective, I am betting that there will be no bulk flow of air in the intracigar or intercigar spaces. The space is too small, too closed off from the external environment for there to be "air currents" in the common sense. In other words, if you were a tiny little tobacco beetle larva munching away inside a wheel of SLR DCs, you wouldn't feel any breeze on your cigar chomping face.

Movement of oxygen, moisture vapor, etc., would occur by molecular diffusion through the stagnant columns of air and air spaces. There are special quantities called dimensionless numbers and formulae for calculating diffusion through a stagnant air column but in essence, without air flow (movement, breeze, circulation, etc.) the only way that gases and such will move from place to place is through molecular motion. Each molecule moving on its own instead of schooling together like fish to form a "current."

Outside the cab, however, you WILL want currents and bulk motion to insure that conditions throughout the storage cabinet or cooler are uniform from top to bottom, side to side, and front to back. This is one reason why the use of battery operated Oust fans inside a cabinet or cooler is not a bad idea.

Wilkey

First, just let me say that breeze or no breeze, in my next life, I want to be a "tiny little tobacco beetle larva munching away inside a wheel of SLR DCs."

Thanks for the clarification Mr. W. My knowledge of Chem is rudimentary at best.