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Storing cigars in original cabs -- advantages, why?

highdudgeon

New Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
48
Hi -- I've searched and not found an answer to this.

I have heard that, in a coolidor or walk-in, it is best to store cigars that came in cabinets in their cabinets. As it happens, out of pure convenience, I am doing precisely this. Oliva stays in Oliva, Cohiba stays in Cohiba, and I know where things are. No problems there. (VERY new to the Coolidor thing. I now have two and can't believe the money I've spent on desktops -- this is so much better and I appreciate all the great advice from new friends on the site, posts, etc.)

The question is, why would this be preferable to storing the same cigars together in a quality humidor with the same temp/Rh and all that? What is it about being in their original little box that is helpful for aging? Or is this simply lore?

Just curious...and obliged for answers.
 
Not lore, just convenience, methinks.

RH and temperature are all that really matter for cigar storage. The pedigree of the wood they sit on won't affect the aging a bit.

Only other concern is to keep aromatic cigars away from the rest of the bunch, or pretty soon they'll all smell like ass, er, the aromatic smokes..... :whistling:

Regards - B.B.S.
 
It's been posited, and I think it makes sense, that cigars kept in boxes (cabinets in particular) have an additional buffer against humidity swings that might be caused by opening your humidor, changes in ambient temperature/humidity, etc.

They may also aid in reducing the amount of air your cigars are exposed to, which some think makes for a better and more graceful aging process.
 
It's been posited, and I think it makes sense, that cigars kept in boxes (cabinets in particular) have an additional buffer against humidity swings that might be caused by opening your humidor, changes in ambient temperature/humidity, etc.

They may also aid in reducing the amount of air your cigars are exposed to, which some think makes for a better and more graceful aging process.

I was going to say almost the same thing. Extra buffer from swings in temp and humidity and slows things down for possibly better aging. Just my opinion though.
 
I'm ok with the box acting as an extra buffer, but my question is that if the box remains closed/sealed/unopened do the sticks still get enough moisture to them..>>??

I'm wondering because I'm finally at a point where I can start storing boxes (must be getting old) and just want to be sure I'm doing that properly.

Is there a proper procedure for box storage..>>??

art
 
I'm ok with the box acting as an extra buffer, but my question is that if the box remains closed/sealed/unopened do the sticks still get enough moisture to them..>>??

I'm wondering because I'm finally at a point where I can start storing boxes (must be getting old) and just want to be sure I'm doing that properly.

Is there a proper procedure for box storage..>>??

art

yes.

No.

(unless you want to try ot vacuum seal the boxes for long term storage. Other thane that, check your stock regularly(I do it every couple months) and rotate as needed. Levels of humidity vary in some humidors. Rotation of the sticks helps to balance things out.
 
yes.

No.

(unless you want to try ot vacuum seal the boxes for long term storage. Other thane that, check your stock regularly(I do it every couple months) and rotate as needed. Levels of humidity vary in some humidors. Rotation of the sticks helps to balance things out.

thanks...just wanted to check to be sure a sealed box was good to store sealed..
finally have enough stock so I can put some in the coolerdor.

art
 
yes.

No.

(unless you want to try ot vacuum seal the boxes for long term storage. Other thane that, check your stock regularly(I do it every couple months) and rotate as needed. Levels of humidity vary in some humidors. Rotation of the sticks helps to balance things out.

thanks...just wanted to check to be sure a sealed box was good to store sealed..
finally have enough stock so I can put some in the coolerdor.

art

Note for long term storage: If I put 2 different types of cigars in one box, I try to split them up with at least a piece of cedar.

The ruling on whether cigars really 'marry' is still out(with me) so I want to be safe! :D
 
1) Storing cigars in cabinets allows less oxygen to interact with the cigars.

2) Less oxygen leads to slower aging.

3) Slower aging leads to more complex and aromatic cigars.
 
1) Storing cigars in cabinets allows less oxygen to interact with the cigars.

2) Less oxygen leads to slower aging.

3) Slower aging leads to more complex and aromatic cigars.


Then there's the line about Cab's hacing more cedar and adding to the aroma - vs. dress boxes! :D

Funny - why would a cab have LESS oxygen?
Most dress boxes are packed, where the circular(sorta) set up in a cab allows for air gaps...no?


(uh-oh, here's Wilkey!)

:sign:
 
i think less oxygen may refer to the less permeable nature of the cabinets versus the dress boxes.
 
yes.

No.

(unless you want to try ot vacuum seal the boxes for long term storage. Other thane that, check your stock regularly(I do it every couple months) and rotate as needed. Levels of humidity vary in some humidors. Rotation of the sticks helps to balance things out.

thanks...just wanted to check to be sure a sealed box was good to store sealed..
finally have enough stock so I can put some in the coolerdor.

art

Just so we're clear, here, when you say "sealed" you don't mean "never opened and still in the plastic shrink-wrap," do you? If so, you need to open and inspect every box before you put it away. I've also heard that the shrink-wrap is not permeable to water vapor, or not very permeable, so it doesn't allow the humidity inside the box to regulate very well.
 
i think less oxygen may refer to the less permeable nature of the cabinets versus the dress boxes.


Oh!

Nevermind!
inside-snl-radner.jpg
 
1) Storing cigars in cabinets allows less oxygen to interact with the cigars.

2) Less oxygen leads to slower aging.

3) Slower aging leads to more complex and aromatic cigars.


Then there's the line about Cab's hacing more cedar and adding to the aroma - vs. dress boxes! :D

Funny - why would a cab have LESS oxygen?
Most dress boxes are packed, where the circular(sorta) set up in a cab allows for air gaps...no?


(uh-oh, here's Wilkey!)

:sign:

Some of the cabs I have been in have had the oxygen replaced by various smells from the cab driver
 
Just so we're clear, here, when you say "sealed" you don't mean "never opened and still in the plastic shrink-wrap," do you? ......

I guess initially I was questioning all three scenarios.
the first being a closed box of sticks.(asuming some of contents removed)
the second being a sealed (paper seal still intact) box of sticks
and the third being an unopend (shrinked) box.

the first and second were my main concerns because if I ever got a box that was shrinked I would removed the shrink. But I wasnt sure if it was ok to store a sealed(paper seal still intact) box. I wasnt really thinking about the oxygen interaction, I was thinking if the thing was all sealed up or closed up tight, then the humidity level would eventually drop and the sticks dry out..

was I wrong there..???

**edit - spelling
 
yes.

No.

(unless you want to try ot vacuum seal the boxes for long term storage. Other thane that, check your stock regularly(I do it every couple months) and rotate as needed. Levels of humidity vary in some humidors. Rotation of the sticks helps to balance things out.

thanks...just wanted to check to be sure a sealed box was good to store sealed..
finally have enough stock so I can put some in the coolerdor.

art

Just so we're clear, here, when you say "sealed" you don't mean "never opened and still in the plastic shrink-wrap," do you? If so, you need to open and inspect every box before you put it away. I've also heard that the shrink-wrap is not permeable to water vapor, or not very permeable, so it doesn't allow the humidity inside the box to regulate very well.


I have heard the same thing as well...that the plastic shrink is not permeable to air/vapor. So I always wondered when someone or some shop says that they have a new, unopened box sill in the shrink wrap that has been tucked away and forgot about for years only to be rediscovered again...if those cigars are actually aged or have just been stagnating for all that time. How can they age if there is no exchange? I have no doubts though, that cello is permeable and that cabs and dress boxes without shrink wrap allow sufficient air/vapor exchange for proper storage and aging. Even vacuum sealing puzzles me because again I thought exchange was necessary for aging. I see how it will slow things down but to me it seems that it will come to a complete halt. So much to learn still...
 
1) Storing cigars in cabinets allows less oxygen to interact with the cigars.
Funny - why would a cab have LESS oxygen?
Most dress boxes are packed, where the circular(sorta) set up in a cab allows for air gaps...no?

(uh-oh, here's Wilkey!)

:sign:
My theory is as follows. In cabinets, the cigars are packed in a wheel (either 25 or 50) whereas in a dressed box, the cigars are in two layers. Every cigar in a DB is in contact with a box wall. In a cab, only the outer layer of a wheel is in contact or exposed to a wall. When we say "less oxygen" what we are really talking about is a slower rate of oxygen diffusion to the cigars on the interior of the wheel. Why should this be the case. Think of it this way:

The aging reactions are of two types but we'll consider only one here; the aerobic reactions that require oxygen as a reactant/oxidizer for the chemical reaction to take place. No oxygen, no reaction. One such example of this type of reaction is the reaction that generates energy within our cells. No oxygen, no energy, you die. Aging reactions analogous to the ones in tobacco are known to occur in wines and in that area, they are well studied. Not so much in tobacco. At least nothing that's been published and readily accessible.

The aging reactions occur throughout the leaves, the cigars, and the wheel and oxygen is consumed. At the very center of the wheel, the cigars are farthest away from the walls and thus air and oxygen have a long way to get to them to fuel the aging reactions there. Less oxygen leads to slower reactions. Slower reactions leads to a different balance of reaction and this is the condition that is hypothesized to result in the state referred to as "gracefully aged."

Now, this theory seems to make sense but there are two aspects of this that are problematic. The first has to do with whether or not the cigars at the center are really more deprived of oxygen as compared to the sticks on the outside of the wheel. The second has to do with an implication regarding how cigars in various locations in the wheel will age.

Now, to see if anyone has been listening and to see if I've explained this so it makes sense, I'll send a fiver of cigars, some with age, to the first person who can identify and explain the two problematic aspects I alluded to above.

Wilkey

Note to Marcos. Cellophane is not heat sealable and it is not shrinkable. Check a bundle of Tatuaje or good quality cigars some time and you'll see that the end flaps are taped closed. The heat shrinkable film around boxes that are heat sealed is polyethylene. In absolute terms, neither of the two materials (especially in this thickness) provide much of a barrier to anything. Vacuum sealing works because you are using a multilayer film that is designed for low moisture and oxygen transport. That's what keeps things in Cryovac bags from spoiling or, if stored in the freezer, from getting freezer burn. Resistance to freezer burn is also a consequence of pulling a vacuum sufficient to remove air pockets. With respect to retarding aging, you might just as well seal without the vacuum as the bag film is what's doing the magic. Some folks pull a high vacuum enough to cave in the box and that's a mistake. The lower air pressure inside the bag will actually hasten the transport of oxygen into the bag. So for cigar sealing in Cryovac bags, think gentle.
 
Nice offer of the fiver Wilkey...everyone is jumping on it right now.. Don't all rush. .LOL.

Oh, nice explanation as usual. Inconclusive at this juncture unless someone can prove that the outer sticks do in fact age slower. Perhaps Moki can do a blind taste
to confuse the crap out of us further adding fuel to the fire :laugh:

Brian
 
Here is what I get from your post and the problems you noted.

1. whether or not the cigars at the center are really more deprived of oxygen as compared to the sticks on the outside of the wheel.

The outer cigars have more surface area exposed and get more Oxygen, so they should age faster, but not as gracefully as those in the center.




2. an implication regarding how cigars in various locations in the wheel will age.

Cigars at the outside of the wheel should age quicker and not as "Gracefully" as those towards the center. The cigars should become more slowly aged as you get closer to the center as the Oxygen has to move through smaller spaces/other cigars surrounding it to get to them causing reactions to be slower.

It would be interesting to see if it really worked this way and if it did, wouldn't it be better to get a giant cab box and continue to pack new cigars around the old ones to let them age more gracefully?

-Tom
 
Yardgnome,
Nice effort, my man!

1. Almost but not quite and it might be that I was unclear. Try this. I'm hypothesizing that the cigars at the center of the wheel are more sheltered (i.e. by other cigars). However, they might not be. Why? Think about how the cigars are arranged in the cab and what is touching what.

2. Right on the nose.

Wilkey
 
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