Silca Kitty Litter Question

[ThankYouForNotSmoking]

This thread should be a sticky, I got so much crap for this and laughed at, but I saved alot of money and spent it on a few boxes instead. I followed the instructions meantioned in this thread, and everything went nice and smooth(minus the 6 hours of blue removal, Which I have found dont affect anything so dont waste your time!) Anyway, So I spent a total of like $70 bucks on a good cooler, kitty litter, spray bottle, distilled water, and a digi hygrometer, havent had to spray the bags since I put them in the cooler, holds at 65% like no other without a cedar lining. Have not noticed any cedar smell in the litter either.

So how do you buy a couple of boxes of cigars with the money you saved not buying beads? What the hell are you smoking? $25 for a pound of beads, $.89 for a gallon of distilled water, $1.50 for a spray bottle, Maybe $30 for the cooler and $33 for the gauge! $90 gets you beads. You spent $21.75 on an ESG Robusto but you have to cut corners on the humidification to protect your smokes? I don't get you at all. The worst case scenario is that you saved $30? How do you buy a couple of boxes of cigars for $30?

And that's exactly why this needs to be stickied! As well as some of defetis's other notable threads...

 

[JHolmes763]

minus the 6 hours of blue removal, Which I have found dont affect anything so dont waste your time!

??? Ugh... did you not read post #56?

 

[Allofus123]

You spent $21.75 on an ESG Robusto but you have to cut corners on the humidification to protect your smokes?

Using KLH is not "cutting corners". KLH will keep cigars humidified just like any other silca gel beads. I'm not sure why this is so hard for some to understand. Makes no difference what the cigar is.... I can assure you I personally would not be using it if it was to somehow subject cigars to anything but optimal conditions. (an ESG would be the least of my worries )

If you want convienence...... pay the extra. Nothing wrong with that as one should expect to pay for convienence. Make no doubt about it, you're paying for the convienience not a product that keeps your cigars any better humidified.

 

[preembargo]

Anything that I do with my own hands vs paying for someone else's efforts has a higher value to me.


Another benefit to the 'do it yourself' method is that it gives you a better understanding of the hygroscopic nature of cigars which in turn gives you a better understanding and appreciation of how to store and age cigars.

 

[defetis]

I'm glad to see everyones opinion ring in! What preembargo said is half the reason I wanted to take my own steps to putting my stuff together, also I planned on making note of everything I did so other people could take the same steps or get advice out of my mistakes and what not.

Brad- Ever since I messed up with you, I've really been trying to take everyones and your advice on here. Trying to read more, post less, I even watch my punctuation. I really do not know what I did to make you in general so mad. You are a great guy, and I just want to make right with everything. You say I'm not active enough in this community, so thats where the kitty litter thread idea came into play, also I did some box splits, newbie sampler trades and so on. I've always just wanted to try an ESG, so when I finished my coolidor, I treated myself. Is that wrong? For some reason you roast me on doing something for myself, why your so hard, I do not know.

Does Anyone?

 

[MilesMingusMonk]

I AM AN IDIOT! So i have 1 lbs and 8 oz. of sorted crystals now so i'll make sure these are my favorite stockings! When i read about how you guys use pantyhose, i went and took some of those foot things at walmart that people use when they dont have socks, to try on shoes, I think they will work great, will post some pictures soon. Anyone have recomendations on where to get shelving? I just want one wire shelf, but i want to be able to pull it on atleast half way so i need to find a roller bracket or something.

I'm still wondering how you justify stealing? A pair of panty hose kneehighs costs about .99 at Walgreens and WalMart.

Members who need to "go cheap" at every turn ( pantyhose, beads, tap water vs. distilled water, postage & shipping supplies ) are probably best taking up a less expensive hobby. See Lumberg and his ethics regarding Priority Mail supplies. :whistling: :laugh:

 

[defetis]

I AM AN IDIOT! So i have 1 lbs and 8 oz. of sorted crystals now so i'll make sure these are my favorite stockings! When i read about how you guys use pantyhose, i went and took some of those foot things at walmart that people use when they dont have socks, to try on shoes, I think they will work great, will post some pictures soon. Anyone have recomendations on where to get shelving? I just want one wire shelf, but i want to be able to pull it on atleast half way so i need to find a roller bracket or something.

I'm still wondering how you justify stealing? A pair of panty hose kneehighs costs about .99 at Walgreens and WalMart.

Members who need to "go cheap" at every turn ( pantyhose, beads, tap water vs. distilled water, postage & shipping supplies ) are probably best taking up a less expensive hobby. See Lumberg and his ethics regarding Priority Mail supplies. :whistling: :laugh:

They said I could have them. I did not and would not steal, just thought they may work better

 

[Saxjazzman]

At the risk of sounding dumb...what is the point..?? What does "kitty litter" do that Viper's great 65% beads won't....??

Whack me with the "clue by four".....B.B.S.

It is my humble opinion, but experimenting is a good thing. Beads do work great but checking out other possibilites is a good thing. My .03 cents.

 

[preembargo]

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me it's not about cutting corners or tripping over dollars to save a dime. I wanted to understand the science which drives the mechanics of the beads; how something designed for use as a desiccant could end up being accepted as one of the most effective humidification devices available.


I feel I now have better control over my investment because I understand what's happening within my humidor and how to control it more effectively.

 

[Smokyballs]

I'm glad to see everyones opinion ring in! What preembargo said is half the reason I wanted to take my own steps to putting my stuff together, also I planned on making note of everything I did so other people could take the same steps or get advice out of my mistakes and what not.

Brad- Ever since I messed up with you, I've really been trying to take everyones and your advice on here. Trying to read more, post less, I even watch my punctuation. I really do not know what I did to make you in general so mad. You are a great guy, and I just want to make right with everything. You say I'm not active enough in this community, so thats where the kitty litter thread idea came into play, also I did some box splits, newbie sampler trades and so on. I've always just wanted to try an ESG, so when I finished my coolidor, I treated myself. Is that wrong? For some reason you roast me on doing something for myself, why your so hard, I do not know.

Does Anyone?

Comment after comment you extrude stupidity! You say that money is your motivation for not buying beads and then you turn around and buy $140 worth of cigars from us? You make a racist comment and then do a ham fisted apology? I have no use for someone who doesn't have common sence! You know what I'm wasting my time, I'm sorry! I will leave you alone and let the other people on this board figure out how special you are!

 

[tone-ny]

I'm glad to see everyones opinion ring in! What preembargo said is half the reason I wanted to take my own steps to putting my stuff together, also I planned on making note of everything I did so other people could take the same steps or get advice out of my mistakes and what not.

Brad- Ever since I messed up with you, I've really been trying to take everyones and your advice on here. Trying to read more, post less, I even watch my punctuation. I really do not know what I did to make you in general so mad. You are a great guy, and I just want to make right with everything. You say I'm not active enough in this community, so thats where the kitty litter thread idea came into play, also I did some box splits, newbie sampler trades and so on. I've always just wanted to try an ESG, so when I finished my coolidor, I treated myself. Is that wrong? For some reason you roast me on doing something for myself, why your so hard, I do not know.

Does Anyone?

Comment after comment you extrude stupidity! You say that money is your motivation for not buying beads and then you turn around and buy $140 worth of cigars from us? You make a racist comment and then do a ham fisted apology? I have no use for someone who doesn't have common sence! You know what I'm wasting my time, I'm sorry! I will leave you alone and let the other people on this board figure out how special you are!

We already know how special he is :angry: But it never hurts to remind everyone.

 

[preembargo]

:0 I had no idea.


I've just finished perusing your posts and I have to say that I found more than a few unsettling.

You've said that you want to be a contributing member of this community. Sometimes the best contribution one can make is silence. The phrase "Read more, Post less" is not a catchy mantra thrown at newbies because it sounds good. It happens to be the best and most universal advice ever posted on CP. Following it will give you the opportunity to learn from the successes and mistakes of others while you take care of the issues you have in your personal life, i.e. girlfriends' ex, very expensive traffic tickets, no driver's license, etc. It seems to me that you have more pressing concerns than trading cigars, you should take care of those first.

 

[CigarStone]

Heartfelt beads vs. kitty litter

I bought a pound of HFB and 7 pounds of Exquisicat Pearls and I have a question.

I am one week into the two week conditioning process of the KLB and have noticed the KLB have stayed milky looking throughout the process

The HFB turn perfectly clear when contacted with distilled water.

Any input?

BTW.....David at Heartfelt is a great to work with.

 

[NullSmurf]

Heartfelt beads vs. kitty litter

I bought a pound of HFB and 7 pounds of Exquisicat Pearls and I have a question.

I am one week into the two week conditioning process of the KLB and have noticed the KLB have stayed milky looking throughout the process

The HFB turn perfectly clear when contacted with distilled water.

Any input?

BTW.....David at Heartfelt is a great to work with.

Appearance is a function of how saturated the bead is. Grab a pinch of KLH and saturate them. They'll turn translucent. While you're conditioning, you may notice that some of the KLH will "dull" more than others. Likewise, the HFB's will also color inconsistantly while they discharge.

 

[Breedy]

Thanks for the research..... good stuff and supports this "how to" on conditioning your own beads. Think I posted this before but if not here it is again. BTW, these beads use to be known as Climaxx beads.


KLH or Kitty Litter Humidification

Humidity Control with conditioned Silica Gel

One can make generic 'Climaxx Beads' at any desired control point above 40% Relative humidity (RH) by buffering/conditioning generic silica gel.

Buy a container of silica gel crystals/beads used in cat box liter like 'ExquisiCat Crystals' or ‘Kitty Pearl’. (around $8-$10 for approx 4 pounds). Read the label and verify the contents are 100% silica gel crystals. Don't use the product with blue colored crystals mixed in. The beads will be white/clear/opaque. Smell the silica gel crystals/beads and make certain no fragrance is present; there should be no smell whatsoever. Reread this paragraph. It is important that what you buy is 100% silica gel crystals without any colored crystals/beads mixed in with it and absolutely no fragrance.

Silica gel will 'condition', that is, accept or reject water vapor to maintain
an equilibrium RH. The easiest way to condition the beads is to place them in a humidor that is already stable at the humidification level you want to ‘set’ the beads to or a container that you can control the humidity level within. You will need an accurate hygrometer. Place your beads into the control environment you have chosen once you have the humidity within stable at the level you want to condition the beads to. You will stir the beads daily so that all the beads are being conditioned but do it quickly. You’re trying to maintain the environment and an open door or lid allows that environment to change. The less changing of air the better. Keep in mind that the beads will be absorbing humidification from the environment and this will naturally drop the humidity reading from within this environment. Lets say your set point is 65% RH. Once you have the environment holding steady at this level you will introduce the beads. The humidity reading will drop. After a day or so, maybe sooner or maybe longer, the humidity will start to rise. As the beads continue to absorb the moisture within the environment the humidity reading will continue to rise. Replenish your humidification device as needed until the beads plateau at your desired % of humidity. This may take a few days or a week or two but the objective is to get the environment to stabilize at the desired % of humidity you want to ‘set’ the beads and then maintain it at that level for approx 2 weeks. Once these beads have been maintained at the desired level for two weeks you have ‘set’ the beads memory and you may now remove them and use them. They will maintain the same level as what you set the memory to.

As you use the beads when the humidity drops a few points you should lightly mist the beads with distilled water and it will once again regulate the humidity at the set point. I conditioned mine at 65% and find when my humidity levels drop to approx 63/62 its time to give them a misting and that takes the humidity right back to 65% (sometimes 66/67%). If you desire to reset the memory set point its as simply as maintaining the beads at the new ‘Set’ level you desire for two weeks. I would recommend reconditioning any beads left in an uncontrolled environment for longer than a week

I personally used an old humidor with a divider to keep the beads to one side and my humidifier to the other. The humidifier I used was a Cigar Oasis which really made things simple as all I had to do was first get the humidity in the humidor level to 65 (my desired set point) then add the beads and stir daily. Since the Cigar Oasis is automatic I didn’t need to keep replacing the PG mixture as the beads absorbed the humidity and once the beads finally reached 65% the Cigar Oasis maintained that for the two week period quite easily.

Do not get caught up in everything having to happen immediately. This is a slow process and you really can’t screw it up. You can not take a short cut by adding water to the beads. You need to allow the beads to slowly absorb the humidity from within your controlled environment and it will take some time for them to rise to your desired set point. Do not get discouraged. If the humidity is low and rising towards your goal set point then everything is working as it should. Should the rising humidity stall for a day or two at a point lower than your memory set point goal I would recommend you check whatever device you are using for humidification as the beads may have absorbed it all and you will need to recharge the humidifier. You can use any container to condition the beads as long as you can create and maintain a humidified environment at the level you want to ‘Set’ the beads to.

Hope this was clear enough to understand. It really is quite simple.

Thank you for the info, I gather a larger enviroment (say a cooler) would allow the beads to "set" at a given RH% with less maintaince of humidification device due to increase volume of moisture. Basically I am asking if it would be easier to condition the beads in a cooler that might have slight fulcuations in RH% or a 20 count humidor that I have laying around?

 

[Mark Twain]

Thanks for the research..... good stuff and supports this "how to" on conditioning your own beads. Think I posted this before but if not here it is again. BTW, these beads use to be known as Climaxx beads.


KLH or Kitty Litter Humidification

Humidity Control with conditioned Silica Gel

One can make generic 'Climaxx Beads' at any desired control point above 40% Relative humidity (RH) by buffering/conditioning generic silica gel.

Buy a container of silica gel crystals/beads used in cat box liter like 'ExquisiCat Crystals' or ‘Kitty Pearl’. (around $8-$10 for approx 4 pounds). Read the label and verify the contents are 100% silica gel crystals. Don't use the product with blue colored crystals mixed in. The beads will be white/clear/opaque. Smell the silica gel crystals/beads and make certain no fragrance is present; there should be no smell whatsoever. Reread this paragraph. It is important that what you buy is 100% silica gel crystals without any colored crystals/beads mixed in with it and absolutely no fragrance.

Silica gel will 'condition', that is, accept or reject water vapor to maintain
an equilibrium RH. The easiest way to condition the beads is to place them in a humidor that is already stable at the humidification level you want to ‘set’ the beads to or a container that you can control the humidity level within. You will need an accurate hygrometer. Place your beads into the control environment you have chosen once you have the humidity within stable at the level you want to condition the beads to. You will stir the beads daily so that all the beads are being conditioned but do it quickly. You’re trying to maintain the environment and an open door or lid allows that environment to change. The less changing of air the better. Keep in mind that the beads will be absorbing humidification from the environment and this will naturally drop the humidity reading from within this environment. Lets say your set point is 65% RH. Once you have the environment holding steady at this level you will introduce the beads. The humidity reading will drop. After a day or so, maybe sooner or maybe longer, the humidity will start to rise. As the beads continue to absorb the moisture within the environment the humidity reading will continue to rise. Replenish your humidification device as needed until the beads plateau at your desired % of humidity. This may take a few days or a week or two but the objective is to get the environment to stabilize at the desired % of humidity you want to ‘set’ the beads and then maintain it at that level for approx 2 weeks. Once these beads have been maintained at the desired level for two weeks you have ‘set’ the beads memory and you may now remove them and use them. They will maintain the same level as what you set the memory to.

As you use the beads when the humidity drops a few points you should lightly mist the beads with distilled water and it will once again regulate the humidity at the set point. I conditioned mine at 65% and find when my humidity levels drop to approx 63/62 its time to give them a misting and that takes the humidity right back to 65% (sometimes 66/67%). If you desire to reset the memory set point its as simply as maintaining the beads at the new ‘Set’ level you desire for two weeks. I would recommend reconditioning any beads left in an uncontrolled environment for longer than a week

I personally used an old humidor with a divider to keep the beads to one side and my humidifier to the other. The humidifier I used was a Cigar Oasis which really made things simple as all I had to do was first get the humidity in the humidor level to 65 (my desired set point) then add the beads and stir daily. Since the Cigar Oasis is automatic I didn’t need to keep replacing the PG mixture as the beads absorbed the humidity and once the beads finally reached 65% the Cigar Oasis maintained that for the two week period quite easily.

Do not get caught up in everything having to happen immediately. This is a slow process and you really can’t screw it up. You can not take a short cut by adding water to the beads. You need to allow the beads to slowly absorb the humidity from within your controlled environment and it will take some time for them to rise to your desired set point. Do not get discouraged. If the humidity is low and rising towards your goal set point then everything is working as it should. Should the rising humidity stall for a day or two at a point lower than your memory set point goal I would recommend you check whatever device you are using for humidification as the beads may have absorbed it all and you will need to recharge the humidifier. You can use any container to condition the beads as long as you can create and maintain a humidified environment at the level you want to ‘Set’ the beads to.

Hope this was clear enough to understand. It really is quite simple.

Thank you for the info, I gather a larger enviroment (say a cooler) would allow the beads to "set" at a given RH% with less maintaince of humidification device due to increase volume of moisture. Basically I am asking if it would be easier to condition the beads in a cooler that might have slight fulcuations in RH% or a 20 count humidor that I have laying around?

I found this thread helpful. I bought 13 pds of KLH and used a cooler to condition the beads. I decided to use a hydra device and set it at 60%. I stirred the contents twice a day for twelve days. It worked out great. I've used all the beads in my wine cooler and small frigdador.

 

[LilBastage]

I found this thread helpful. I bought 13 pds of KLH and used a cooler to condition the beads. I decided to use a hydra device and set it at 60%. I stirred the contents twice a day for twelve days. It worked out great. I've used all the beads in my wine cooler and small frigdador.

That's what I did about 2 years ago (except I used a Cigar Oasis). I think we even used the same kind of cooler (Igloo Cube?) The KLH is still going strong and keeping humidity like a champ!

Great minds and all that...

 

[badhangover]

Ahhhh, the ubiquitous silica debate. It's as popular to those with cigar experience as "cello on or off?" is to those who are inexperienced with cigars. Honestly, I have no idea why this matter is even debatable. People have found that this humidity maintenance method works for them, and they have shared their experiences with others. It baffles me why people debate the function of something already proven through trial and error to work.

The naysayers say there is another product which works better, albeit for a higher cost. Nobody disputes that other product is more convenient to use. But the fact remains that kitty litter can indeed work for our purposes and some prefer to tinker more, and save more, than to purchase the popular alternative.

Some naysayers say that is nearly akin to blasphemy, as the purveyors of the alternative humidity beads are great people who sell a great product at reasonable cost. "Support a great BoTL" is commonly said. I have personally dealt with them and their range of products and wholeheartedly agree with the esteem bestowed upon them. Some naysayers decry the use of a cheaper alternative, designed for another purpose which is foreign and unsavory in relation to cigars, to be used for cigar collections worth many hundreds or thousands of dollars. The common refrain is, "You spent $$$ on cigars and now you're gonna skimp on their humidity control?" To those points, I say, why then such popular use of ice chest coolers for cigar storage containers? The folks commonly known to make and sell "custom" cabinet humidors are also universally held in high esteem and also participate (albeit, less) on cigar boards. Why spend thousands on cigar collections, only to keep them in $80 ice chests designed to hold oogles of Bud Light instead of supporting the esteemed cabinet humidor makers and purchasing their wares which are specifically designed to store cigars? I think the answer is because chest coolers are proven to work, and also cost less. In their case, much less - but the theory of function and support is the same.

There are many ways to approach this hobby. Price vs convenience, and the choice between tinkering and a hands off approach, are all up to the individual. As ever, to each our own.

 

[bigwhiteash]

Looks to me like the debate ended over a year ago, this is only an attempt at bringing some very useful tips back into the light!

I may be headed to PetSmart tomorrow!

 

[badhangover]

Oh, no. This debate is not over. It only lies dormant. It resurges on every public cigar board every so often.