Responsibility of the FOG's.

[jabba]

And how the hell do you vote for someone to be a FOG? You either are or you aren't.

Emo

It was a joke Emo :0

 

[cigarsarge]

Whatever happened to naming names, posting links, being specific about a particular beef? There is absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning spelling errors. I make an effort to choose my words carefully and spell them correctly. I figure helping a brother out with his ignorance is part of the job. By the way "ignorance" has nothing to do with the "ability to learn" and everything to do with the "desire to learn". Ignorance is a choice.

NA

Spoken like a true FOG. I think that just about sums up a FOGs responsibility.

 

[bchem]

I don't like the way things are done here. I vote for that "Great King Rat" bastard to be an FOG! He was a real revolutionary! :whistling:

 

[Herfin Bigdog]

I think a discussion is in order in regards to what the FOG's role is on a cigar BB. In my opinion we are here to help our new BOTL's in their passion for the leaf. Answering dumb questions, putting up with their newbiness, and making them feel comfortable asking any type of question is our duty as old guys.

Going after people, calling them asshats, and making these people feel unwelcome is not what being a FOG is all about. People need to remember we are a group of people that is hated by most of society. Fighting each other over stupid things is not what being a BOTL is about.

I have watched the last 2 days events transpire and I am dismayed by the amount of negative posting towards a few people. I think it is totally uncalled for and it needs to stop. Everyone needs to remember we are in this thing of ours because of our passion for everything that is cigars. Petty bickering over trivial matters is not what we are about. If you have a problem with someone, work it out. Do not try to gather support from your buddies to go after an individual and try and drive them off the board.

Unless someone has been proven to be a thief, or a bad trader, or a bad box passer, I think difference should be worked out like adults. I also think taking shots at someone for their grammar or spelling is the pettiest thing that someone can do to another person. We are not in English class, there are no points given for proper use of the English language. Leave that kind of sh#t off the site.

This is just the opinion of someone who has been on cigar websites since January of 1997, and has seen it all.

I think this needed to be quoted in its' entirety.

Harris made a lot of good points. I agree with him on nearly all points.

However, my observations based on having been a member for several months and having read several thousand posts by Newbie and Fog alike are as follows:

I have come to the conclussion that petty behavior is not what this BB is all about, but it is a common theme to several members of this BB.

Many are the times when an unnecessary and caustic remark is made in response to someone elses comment. I don't think that that is the response of a responsible adult member. Rather it is the response of a petty or egotistical person with a childish mentality.

We are all supposed to be adults. We know we are all supposed to act like adults. But I guess that much like one's taste in cigars is subjective, acting like an adult is apparently subjective and open to one's own interpretation too. There is a lot of unadult-like behavior on this BB which is supposedly composed of a membership of adults.

The animosity that is expressed by some members of this BB towards Newbies is unnecessary. Apparently you have forgotten your roots and that you were once a Newbie as well and you asked your share of questions too, several of which I'm 100% certain that some other Fogs thought were stupid questions.

I came over here at the suggestions of several CP members that I met back in November. Had I not been a member of several other cigar BBs in the past with experience on BBs that had their share of less than friendly characters, I would see the pettiness and uncouth behavior that goes on here and would have left and gone elsewhere. THAT is something that should be worried about if this BB is to grow and improve.

But I realize that among the negative dark clouds that exist on this BB, there are several silver linings that I find to be positive, and are the reason that I continue to post here.

 

[SamClemmons]

I have come to the conclussion that petty behavior is not what this BB is all about, but it is a common theme to several members of this BB.

Many are the times when an unnecessary and caustic remark is made in response to someone elses comment. I don't think that that is the response of a responsible adult member. Rather it is the response of a petty or egotistical person with a childish mentality.

We are all supposed to be adults. We know we are all supposed to act like adults. But I guess that much like one's taste in cigars is subjective, acting like an adult is apparently subjective and open to one's own interpretation too. There is a lot of unadult-like behavior on this BB which is supposedly composed of a membership of adults.

The animosity that is expressed by some members of this BB towards Newbies is unnecessary. Apparently you have forgotten your roots and that you were once a Newbie as well and you asked your share of questions too, several of which I'm 100% certain that some other Fogs thought were stupid questions.

I came over here at the suggestions of several CP members that I met back in November. Had I not been a member of several other cigar BBs in the past with experience on BBs that had their share of less than friendly characters, I would see the pettiness and uncouth behavior that goes on here and would have left and gone elsewhere. THAT is something that should be worried about if this BB is to grow and improve.

But I realize that among the negative dark clouds that exist on this BB, there are several silver linings that I find to be positive, and are the reason that I continue to post here.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

Show me the animosity toward newbies pal. You have an agenda and you make accusations without substance. Now you are part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.
Harris' post on its face is reasonable but taken in the context of someone like Tonydogs (and a few others) it is wallpaper.

NA

 

[cigardawg]

Given a few of the threads over the past couple weeks, I thought this should be topped. Notice paragraph four.

Patrick

That is Harris' opinion but not mine or others LC. Harris has been a member of other boards many of which I'm not aware of but he's relatively new here. This is the first time I've seen this thread and I completely disagree with this:

I also think taking shots at someone for their grammar or spelling is the pettiest thing that someone can do to another person. We are not in English class, there are no points given for proper use of the English language. Leave that kind of sh#t off the site.

As I have said before, people who constantly spell things wrong and use words improperly make a site look bad. When I recommend sites to others and they come to those sites and see people writing like morons, they are immediately turned off and then ask me why I would post on a board that is obviously populated with a fair number of illiterates and/or lazy people who are too sloppy to show respect for the board. The only people that get their spelling and improper use of words pointed out are those who do it to the point where it is a concern and it should be pointed out. Most times when their errors are pointed out, it is not done in a mean or nasty way. Reasonable people know they were wrong and don't take it personally however others consider it a personal attack which is ridiculous. If you don't like being criticized for being wrong, then stop being wrong.

Bill, as much as you might like to think it is not...IT IS PETTY. Constantly correcting people's spelling errors is petty. No two ways to it. If it walks like a duck and talks like a duck, it is probably a duck. It if sounds petty and looks petty, it is probably petty. In this case, most definitely so.

I have had MANY people mention to me that what attracted them to this site and other sites like CigarSnobs and CigarSmokers is that a majority of the posts are written obviously by some reasonably intelligent and/or bright people, unlike other sites like StogieChat or the infamous LetsTalkCigars where the major poster's and the site owner's posts were laden with errors and immature internet lingo which make the site sophomoric and cheesy.

MANY? How many? Who? Please be specific...or, see Samclemmons' post above.

Maybe I'm missing the point of why you made particular mention to paragraph four of Harris' initial post. If I have, how about you be so kind as to point out some particular threads that led you to make this post. Your vague generalizations don't accomplish much.

Similar to your vague reference to the MANY people above? If he referenced all the posts where you corrected someone's spelling on the board, this thread would take up 20 pages. Sheeesh.

Here we go again - things need to be changed...

Yes, SOME things do need to change. SOME things do not. There must be change is a thing is to thrive. Otherwise, the result is stagnation.

Let me see if I'm getting this straight... Don't point out the "petty" mistakes... But there was a recent call for others to "mentor" newbies... Hmmm....

Hmmmm, I don't this means what you think this means. Point out PETTY mistakes does not equal mentoring.

Which is it? Don't say anything when someone screws up (even if it is "petty") for the sake of keeping the peace. Or keep the peace by insuring the site doesn't go down the tubes because there's a governor on everyone doing as they please. I choose the latter - but then again - that may not necessarily be the popular opinion for a few...

How about, don't be a jerk? That works well. Mentoring does not mean belittling or being petty. It means helping them learn about this hobby that we all share. It means sharing the knowledge that the more experienced members have with regards to cigars. It means giving the newbies food for thought.

I agree with Neal - rather than a vague reference to some possible transgressions which upset one or two members - how about specific examples of those transgressions so that we can discuss the merits of the concern. Of course, that would mean there will be ruffled feathers and a heated discussion. And of course that would mean a "calling out", of sorts.

See my above comment about the number of posts.

Somehow, however, I feel it's an ego fed thing - being corrected is not always well received, especially when it involves admitting a mistake or a flaw. But - if the community is concerned about it, and it needs to be addressed, it needs to be addressed community wide...

George, you overuse the "winky" smiley. As for your comment about nominating LC-Smoker as a FOG...he is a much better choice than many that I can think of. And yes, he and others are doing a fine job of keeping eye on things.

Neal, what agenda do you speak of? That is a vague reference. Please, bring it out in the open and enlighten us. If there is a grand conspiracy, please let us all know. As for animosity toward newbies, I agree with you. I think there is animosity towards newbies and established members alike.

 

[CoventryCat86]

No cigardawg your are dead wrong, it is NOT "petty" it's a matter of correcting someone who is posting something that is blatantly wrong. By the same token, if someone posts blatantly wrong information like saying "Padron 1926 Anniversary" are you saying that I'm being "petty" when I point that out too? How about if someone says that "All Padron cigars are made from Honduran tobacco and are manufactured in Honduras" are you saying no one should point out the fact he's wrong for fear of hurting his feelings?Only thin skinned babies who simply cannot take constructive criticsm call this being "petty." Most reasonable people APPRECIATE someone pointing them in the right direction because they become a better person for it in the long run.

You are also exaggerating when you say I "constantly" engage in this. When you grossly exagerate, your argument loses all credibility.

Sorry cigardawg but there's no way I can cite specifically who when I say "Many" because these conversations have been over the past three years, much longer than you've been here and MANY of them were during conversations in person, on the telephone and in PMs. The PMs have been deleted. So no, I can't offer you any proof, you're just going to have to take my word for it.

You certainlly do whine a lot don't you?

 

[ggiese]

Scot, Scot, Scot....

Why did I have a funny feeling you'd be around soon. I'm sure there's a couple of othesr that will stop by as well. And I'm glad you think with an impartial mind - especially with that guy you don't know - LCSmoker. He's always been such a solid, reasonable member. I see what you mean. I say we vote him into the FOG group.

I also nominate you! I think it's high time you wear the robe of FOGdom and learn the secret handshake - oh, and the special ring as well!!! :thumbs:


HerfinBigDog - thanks for stopping by, but you're going to be branded as another 90 day wonder if you keep that up. Since you've been involved at other boards, and not this one, I can see where your view of the world would be a bit colored by your previous experiences.

Scot says we're going to get "stagnant" if we don't change - alarmist to say the least. Many believe the place is the way it is today because of what it is and where it's been. The "change" that some members advocate is not necessarily pretty. I'm of the opinion if it's tried and true - why mess with it?

Some say much the "recent" criticism is "petty" and "offensive". It makes people feel bad and is not mentoring. Then again, no one is listening to SamClemmons sage advice.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning spelling errors. I make an effort to choose my words carefully and spell them correctly. I figure helping a brother out with his ignorance is part of the job. By the way "ignorance" has nothing to do with the "ability to learn" and everything to do with the "desire to learn". Ignorance is a choice.

Not that long ago, many viewed CC's spelling corrections as humorous. The ones who took offense were viewed as the assclowns - and they largely were. Or they quickly realized, like everyone else did, that CC was the boards Grammarian. It was accepted, and if you didn't want to draw the rebuke of CC you learned to spell. Now all of a sudden, because a coupla guys say so, CC is being petty?

I really like Neal's last couple of lines - "ignorance" has nothing to do with the "ability to learn" and everything to do with the "desire to learn". Ignorance is a choice. Too bad people didn't bother to read that.,. Or maybe it is too lofty for some - they'd never understand it...



BTW, Scot - thanks for pointing out my "overuse" of the winky smiley - I'll ask Rod to somehow put a limit on everyone's use of it...

 

[SamClemmons]

I came over here at the suggestions of several CP members that I met back in November. Had I not been a member of several other cigar BBs in the past with experience on BBs that had their share of less than friendly characters, I would see the pettiness and uncouth behavior that goes on here and would have left and gone elsewhere.

Neal, what agenda do you speak of? That is a vague reference. Please, bring it out in the open and enlighten us. If there is a grand conspiracy, please let us all know. As for animosity toward newbies, I agree with you. I think there is animosity towards newbies and established members alike.

Oh come on Dawg.
THAT is something that should be worried about if this BB is to grow and improve.
It's the same agenda a handful of malcontents have here. The "we have to make changes to make this a better board" schtick. Have you people seen this board lately? It is, far and above, the best board around. It doesn't need any adjustments. It is thriving.

There is NO animosity toward newbies. There is SOME animosity toward a few who can't seem to get along without posting innuendo pointed at the old guard here.

That bigdog guy comes over here from one of the most wrong headed boards around. They protect scumbags, rip off artists and gougers by disallowing any public comment that doesn't shove daisies up their collective butts. If you don't like it then go back to that weak assed site and do the Snoopy dance with the rest of them.

For the record, I like being childish. I don't care if anyone likes me being childish. The real world gives me enough stress and I come here to blow of steam.

NA

 

[jabba]

[/quote]


For the record, I like being childish. I don't care if anyone likes me being childish. The real world gives me enough stress and I come here to blow of steam.

NA
[/quote]

I think you ment "blow off steam" just kidding

 

[SamClemmons]

Bastid.
I think you meant, meant.
NA

 

[jabba]

Bastid.
I think you meant, meant.
NA

 

[Matt R]

For the record, I like being childish. I don't care if anyone likes me being childish. The real world gives me enough stress and I come here to blow of steam.

NA

Ditto......

 

[LC-Smoker]

Wow, I haven't been here for a couple days and things explode. I didn't realize topping this thread would start such a shit-storm. When Harris first started the thread, it was overwhelmingly accepted; how times have changed.

Sorry I haven't responded in a few days, I have been busy trying to finish my thesis.

I believe that Harris' first post was right on. Correcting grammar is petty; very petty. I believe Bill is petty for doing so. And comparing that to correcting someone as to the name or origin of a cigar is way off mark. Some may agree with this, others may not. I feel it is petty and will continue to do so.

For George's mentor comparison. Correcting grammar is not mentoring. I think that Rod had other things in mind when he suggested mentors. Such as guidance when selling/buying/trading/etc, starting passes, etc.

Neal, thanks for you valuable contribution to this topic. :sign:

OK, I am going back to work! Carry on.

Patrick

 

[celt]

No cigardawg your are dead wrong, it is NOT "petty" it's a matter of correcting someone who is posting something that is blatantly wrong. By the same token, if someone posts blatantly wrong information like saying "Padron 1926 Anniversary" are you saying that I'm being "petty" when I point that out too? How about if someone says that "All Padron cigars are made from Honduran tobacco and are manufactured in Honduras" are you saying no one should point out the fact he's wrong for fear of hurting his feelings?Only thin skinned babies who simply cannot take constructive criticsm call this being "petty." Most reasonable people APPRECIATE someone pointing them in the right direction because they become a better person for it in the long run.

You are also exaggerating when you say I "constantly" engage in this. When you grossly exagerate, your argument loses all credibility.

Sorry cigardawg but there's no way I can cite specifically who when I say "Many" because these conversations have been over the past three years, much longer than you've been here and MANY of them were during conversations in person, on the telephone and in PMs. The PMs have been deleted. So no, I can't offer you any proof, you're just going to have to take my word for it.

You certainlly do whine a lot don't you?

your should be you

thin-skinned

criticism

exaggerate

certainly

i won't go into the lack of commas....

 

[CoventryCat86]

Wow, I haven't been here for a couple days and things explode. I didn't realize topping this thread would start such a shit-storm. When Harris first started the thread, it was overwhelmingly accepted; how times have changed.

Sorry I haven't responded in a few days, I have been busy trying to finish my thesis.

I believe that Harris' first post was right on. Correcting grammar is petty; very petty. I believe Bill is petty for doing so. And comparing that to correcting someone as to the name or origin of a cigar is way off mark. Some may agree with this, others may not. I feel it is petty and will continue to do so.

For George's mentor comparison. Correcting grammar is not mentoring. I think that Rod had other things in mind when he suggested mentors. Such as guidance when selling/buying/trading/etc, starting passes, etc.

Neal, thanks for you valuable contribution to this topic. :sign:

OK, I am going back to work! Carry on.

Patrick

Incredible. Correcting grammar and spelling IS "mentoring" LC-Smoker whether you want to believe it or not and it is indeed vey similar to correcting ANY error or mistake that anyone posts.

Also, how do you conclude Harris' post was "overwhelmingly accepted"? I never saw it until you "topped" it and ovbiously I'm not the only one who has a strong disagreement with what he posted. Times have not changed one bit, Harris's opinions are his, he's not the board owner nor does he make the rules around here. If you agree with him, good for you, I and others don't agree with everything he said.

Unlike Neal, you have contributed nothing of value to this topic.

 

[SamClemmons]

CoventryKat. I hereby charge you with the task of correcting every single mispelling, punctuation error or grammar faux pas you see. I like it and it's funny as hell and it bothers these guys with too much starch in their shorts.

NA

 

[celt]

Incredible. Correcting grammar and spelling IS "mentoring" LC-Smoker whether you want to believe it or not and it is indeed vey similar to correcting ANY error or mistake that anyone posts.

Also, how do you conclude Harris' post was "overwhelmingly accepted"? I never saw it until you "topped" it and ovbiously I'm not the only one who has a strong disagreement with what he posted. Times have not changed one bit, Harris's opinions are his, he's not the board owner nor does he make the rules around here. If you agree with him, good for you, I and others don't agree with everything he said.

Unlike Neal, you have contributed nothing of value to this topic.

very
obviously

 

[CoventryCat86]

your should be you

thin-skinned

criticism

exaggerate

certainly

i won't go into the lack of commas....

Thank you for pointing out my errors, I will strive to do better. However if you have issues with "lack of commas" then please point out specifics otherwise you don't have a legitimate point. You are wrong when you said that "thin skinned" should have a hyphen, there is nothing wrong with the way I wrote it. If you want to point out my errors at least do it correctly. I find this rather hilarious coming from a guy like you who seldom uses the "Shift" key when he posts! If you are missing my point, when you start a sentence, you should capitalize the first letter, okay celt?

very
obviously

Thanks again celt! :thumbs:

I think celt would make a fantastic assistant, don't you SamClemmons? :thumbs:

EDIT, on second thought, he wouldn't since he writes fairy poorly himself. Who knows though, while some people write poorly, they make very good editors so maybe we do indeed have a place for you after all celt.

 

[SamClemmons]

I will continue to call out the devisive members here regardless of whether they are ripoff artists or whatever. A few of you and I will be talking soon.

NA

Master I agree with you 100%.

I believe the days of lynching is over here on CP and I think most members will not tolerate it anymore.  Folks come here to pass time and not to be told what to say or do.  During the last 9 months that I have been on this board I have seen many public castration of newbs for no good reason and I have seen many unsolicited confrontations over silly stuff.  I also have witnessed other nwebs were jumping on the bandwagon trying to score brownie points for some reason.    I think if you are a newb you should stay away from any drama unfolding unless you are defending your self.

-thx

[snapback]299397[/snapback]​

Bullshit rat. Show me one lynching of a newb not deserved.

NA

I think if you are a newb you should stay away from any drama unfolding unless you are defending your self.

[snapback]299397[/snapback]​

Unless it has to do with a bad trading incident, box pass or some other financial transaction, it may be best to swallow your pride and use the tried and true method of ignoring the issue. This is what causes a lot of unrest. Prove to those who think of you in a bad light, that you're not what they say, by becoming a bigger person. Walk away young grasshopper, walk away.

[snapback]299405[/snapback]​

Walking away just makes for a bigger problem Matty. Get it settled then walk away. Did you wake up another planet this morning? Uranus perhaps?

NA

So you basically don't have any particular person in mind who was lynched without cause, eh rat?

NA

Whatever happened to naming names, posting links, being specific about a particular beef? There is absolutely nothing wrong with mentioning spelling errors. I make an effort to choose my words carefully and spell them correctly. I figure helping a brother out with his ignorance is part of the job. By the way "ignorance" has nothing to do with the "ability to learn" and everything to do with the "desire to learn". Ignorance is a choice.

NA

Fuggin' newbs anyway.

Bleeeghchh.

NA

I have come to the conclussion that petty behavior is not what this BB is all about, but it is a common theme to several members of this BB.

Many are the times when an unnecessary and caustic remark is made in response to someone elses comment. I don't think that that is the response of a responsible adult member. Rather it is the response of a petty or egotistical person with a childish mentality.

We are all supposed to be adults. We know we are all supposed to act like adults. But I guess that much like one's taste in cigars is subjective, acting like an adult is apparently subjective and open to one's own interpretation too. There is a lot of unadult-like behavior on this BB which is supposedly composed of a membership of adults.

The animosity that is expressed by some members of this BB towards Newbies is unnecessary. Apparently you have forgotten your roots and that you were once a Newbie as well and you asked your share of questions too, several of which I'm 100% certain that some other Fogs thought were stupid questions.

I came over here at the suggestions of several CP members that I met back in November. Had I not been a member of several other cigar BBs in the past with experience on BBs that had their share of less than friendly characters, I would see the pettiness and uncouth behavior that goes on here and would have left and gone elsewhere. THAT is something that should be worried about if this BB is to grow and improve.

But I realize that among the negative dark clouds that exist on this BB, there are several silver linings that I find to be positive, and are the reason that I continue to post here.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

If you can't be specific... shutting up is an option.

Show me the animosity toward newbies pal. You have an agenda and you make accusations without substance. Now you are part of the problem instead of being part of the solution.
Harris' post on its face is reasonable but taken in the context of someone like Tonydogs (and a few others) it is wallpaper.

NA

According to my posts in this thread I overwhelmingly accepted Harris' original post and I...
"What?"
Wahwawawawah.
"I didn't?"
Wahwah, wahwawa.
"They weren't?"
Wah!

Well screw it then. lc was in error and it's not my fault.

NA