Padron 80th

[moki]

I agree with alot of what turk said. The term limited and the hype that goes along with it is putting alittle extra money in someones pocket.I fell into the same hype with the opus that took years to get out of. Eventually I took a step back and said why am I going out of my way and paying twice what I normally do for a cigar that isn't twice as good! But, that's all part of the game and next year they will come out with another anniversary that will be even more "limited" and more expensive. They would be stupid not to. What makes this more expensive than the 40th or the PAM?

This type of marketing goes on everday in order to get every penny they can out of the consumer and it works.My examples:
playstation 3
Nike air Jordans-or any tennis shoe but this is the most extreme
iphone
Blu Ray DVD Players

All of the examples are made over seas for next to nothing but sell for hundreds of dollars in the states. We love something new or limited.Anyway, let me get off my soap box. I hope I haven't offended anyone with my rant I was just thinking and typing. All that matters is that the person is happy with their purchase.

Not very good examples, really, all things considered. The Playstation 3, for instance, despite the hype, has not sold particularly well. In fact, it's been rather panned in the industry. Nintendo is positively crushing the Playstation 3 in terms of sales, and the XBox is as well.

So that's actually a very good example of where hype is not enough. Every cigar manufacturer under the sun puts out limited edition this, and anniversary that. There are two reasons for this:

1) You're right that marketing a limited edition cigar often makes people want to obtain it
2) Cigar manufacturers really do use limited select tobacco to make these cigars; they really can't just make as many of them as they want

But the thing is, there are really only a handful of companies that put out limited edition or hard to find cigars that people bother spending the effort to hunt down and acquire. Habanos SA, Fuente, Padrón, and arguably brands like Tatuaje and La Flor Dominicana... but the latter two are not quite in the same category as the first three.

...and yet you will find that just about every cigar manufacturer under the sun makes limited edition cigars. If it's all about the the hype and nothing else, why does it only really "click" with a handful of manufacturers? Clearly there is something else going on here.

That something else is the combination of a quality and a limited release. So to discount it as "pure hype" I think is a bit nonsensical.

To touch on point #2 above, here's a perfect example. Litto made his Small Batch No.1 cigars... and he really did only have enough wrapper and tobacco to make that small limited release. Was it hype? Partly, but it was clearly more than that. It really is a limited edition cigar.

 

[B.HOBS]

Anyone know a B&M in SoCal selling singles????? No luck anywhere I've tried.....me want one!

 

[botl43]

Anyone know a B&M in SoCal selling singles????? No luck anywhere I've tried.....me want one!

Nope haven't seen them in Cali as of yet. Patience my friend. If you haven't noticed your on one of the best sites to know and have available hard to find and or hot items as soon as there available. Keep an eye on the hot cigar deals page. One or two of our well known and trusted vendors will be posting For Sale soon..

 

[jeht2000]

Actually moki, the playstation is a good example of what I'm talking about and that is over pricing. When the unit came out it was $600 and now the price has been cut by a hundred dollars. And they could cut it several more times and still make money. My point is that it doesn't cost these guys anywhere near what they are charging to make it so the profit margin is huge. The only reason it cost so much is because people will pay it. And if selling 5 million units of something when your making 2-300% profit on it isn't successful than I don't know what is.

Back to cigars. My point is that the profit margin is huge when it comes to these limited releases and it doesn't reflect the amount put in. Especially, when your talking about third world countries where the people are being paid next to nothing. So the price tag reflects what people will pay and not what goes in. First it was the 64, then the 26, the 40th, and now the 80th and everytime the price goes up. Why? Does anyone here not think there will be another limited release next year by padron and that it will cost more than the 80th? Oh, as to your second point about the manufactures really using limited tobacco what is enough of a premium in your eyes to justify this "limited" tobacco before it's considered gouging.

And after saying all that, I wouldn't mind having one in the humi

 

[moki]

Actually moki, the playstation is a good example of what I'm talking about and that is over pricing. When the unit came out it was $600 and now the price has been cut by a hundred dollars. And they could cut it several more times and still make money. My point is that it doesn't cost these guys anywhere near what they are charging to make it so the profit margin is huge. The only reason it cost so much is because people will pay it. And if selling 5 million units of something when your making 2-300% profit on it isn't successful than I don't know what is.

Actually, you're wrong. Do you honestly have any concept of what it costs Sony to make the PS3? Have you priced any BluRay DVD players lately? Sourced out the component costs of the processors, RAM, and other ingredients in the PS3 package?

Have you any idea of what Sony's sunk costs are for R&D in creating the PS3 in the first place? I'm in the industry, with friends who work at Sony on the PS3, and you have it backwards. Sony did not want the price of the PS3 to be as high as it was initially... and they were hurt badly by the initial pricing.

If you honestly think Sony's profit margin on the PS3 is anywhere near that, you just don't understand the industry. Console manufacturers generally make no money from consoles in the first year or two of their introduction. The goal is to make up the difference in licensing game titles. Make money from the razors, not the blades.

Nintendo is one of the few companies out there that actually turns a profit on their console sales.

So again... you picked a poor choice for an example. Don't believe me? Here you go:

PlayStation 3 losses now over $1 billion

Key quote:

In other words, while it had planned to sell the PS3 at a loss, Sony had to reduce prices and sell at even more of a loss in order to shift consoles it had already made.

...so not only is their profit margin not the 2-300% you stated, but they've been losing money on every single console they sell... and the recent price cuts have caused them to lose even more money on every console that they sell (economies of scale aside). So the reality is that their profit margin on the Playstation 3 is negative.

iSupply: PS3 Components Cost $850 -- (which doesn't include the billions developing the console or the cell processor used in it)

Back to cigars. My point is that the profit margin is huge when it comes to these limited releases and it doesn't reflect the amount put in. Especially, when your talking about third world countries where the people are being paid next to nothing. So the price tag reflects what people will pay and not what goes in. First it was the 64, then the 26, the 40th, and now the 80th and everytime the price goes up. Why? Does anyone here not think there will be another limited release next year by padron and that it will cost more than the 80th? Oh, as to your second point about the manufactures really using limited tobacco what is enough of a premium in your eyes to justify this "limited" tobacco before it's considered gouging.

MSRP is $30, so Padrón sells the cigars to retailers for about $15 per cigar, which includes the box manufacturing, the band design/printing, as well as storing large stocks of specific tobaccos and aging it for 5-6 years before even making cigars. Certainly they are making money, but I think you're misguided if you believe that it's arbitrary in terms of the pricing.

As with the Sony Playstation example above, I think you don't understand the nature of the business, or the reality of the marketplace.

 

[Fatken]

Jet, while I agree that $30 is a lot to pay for a smoke, I think $22 for a Davidoff is a lot. Do I smoke them, a few when the occasion is right. I smoke more $8-12 cigars than I should. But from a business perspective, it would be foolhearty to sell a cigar for $15 when you can get $30 for it. It is what the market will bear. Ask yourself why would a ticket scalper sell a ticket to the Superbowl for face value when he can get 5-10X that price (because someone will pay it).

JMHO

Ken

 

[jeht2000]

That's my point Fat. The price is there because people will pay it and because of that they will come out with another limited release next year that will cost more money.

And to Moki, you only focused on one example of mine which was the playstation. I agree/admit that I don't know much about the manufacturing of the PS3 but what about my other examples? Also, I hope you see this as a friendly exchange of thoughts and ideas.

edit to add: You didn't answer my last question. What is enough? At what point do you draw the line and think the manufacture is getting over? If they come out with a 100year anniversary cigar and charge 60 bucks would that be okay?

 

[Jonesy]

The way I look at it is....if you don't want to spend the money on it , or plan on griping about the price, the solution is simple....don't buy one or complain about the price of it. No need for theoretical this or hypothetical that....just leave them for someone else to buy an be done with it. I love Padrons so naturally I'll be biased in my opinions. I just bought 5 of the 80th's the other day....does that mean I could have taken my $150 and gotten a bunch more cigars for my money? Of course it does....but I would have only been able to get 9 cigars instead of 5 since the '26 #2 maduro is my favorite cigar. I would much rather pay $16 for 1 of them then buy 2 $8 cigars that might not give me the enjoyment that I get out of that 1 Padron '26 #2.This is a subjective matter and to each his own because in all probability, why would someone spend $30 on one cigar when they can get 4 or 5 that they love for the same price. But at the same time, why should I throw away $30 on 4 or 5 cigars that are "ok" when I can get one that will give me the most enjoyment out of a cigar in an hour and a half that I can possibly get? I've tried a lot of cigars and none can give me the enjoyment that a Padron does so if that means spending between $10 and $30 for a Padron, then I'll do it every time.


Like Ken said....cigar making is a business, do you actually believe that they wouldn't try to make a profit also....why sell a cigar for $15 when there are people like me that will buy them for $30? Padron is only using one roller for these cigars and is also using some of their most aged tobacco in these, so you can't realistically expect them to be in the same price range as other Padron's.

 

[mrjinglesusa]

This is a subjective matter and to each his own because in all probability, why would someone spend $30 on one cigar when they can get 4 or 5 that they love for the same price. But at the same time, why should I throw away $30 on 4 or 5 cigars that are "ok" when I can get one that will give me the most enjoyment out of a cigar in an hour and a half that I can possibly get? I've tried a lot of cigars and none can give me the enjoyment that a Padron does so if that means spending between $10 and $30 for a Padron, then I'll do it every time.

QFT.

Personally, since I don't smoke that many cigars (maybe 1 or 2 in a good week), I'd rather smoke cigars I KNOW are going to be good. If it's a $25-30 cigar, so be it. Padrons (1926, Millenniums, 1964s) never disappoint. Neither do Fuente Opus X or Anejos. When I light one of these up, I know I'm going to enjoy it. Can't say the same for most $5-6 cigars.

 

[jeht2000]

jonesy, you have a smart $%^ mouth!!This isn't the first time that you have typed something that was being smart and wasn't needed.

What I gave is my opinion on something and thats it. Nowhere in my post did I say, all you guys are crazy or anything like that. I just offered up for debate the question, what is too much. At what point is the manufactuare taking advantage of the consumer? And you took that and ran with it. Making the comment, why complain..if you don't like it then don't buy it and so on. Are you telling me that because you like Padron that there is no limit to what you will spend? That they can offer up a $40 turd and you will buy it just because it has his name on it. To me, you showed more ignorance in your post than anything. Oh, I'll buy or pay anything because its padron!

Mike

edit to add: Why sell a cigar for $30 when people like you will pay $50? Would you still be okay with it? If so, then that's fine, to each his own. which I said in an earlier post. This wasn't about a pissing contest just a couple of questions.

 

[mrjinglesusa]

jonesy, you have a smart $%^ mouth!!This isn't the first time that you have typed something that was being smart and wasn't needed.

What I gave is my opinion on something and thats it. Nowhere in my post did I say, all you guys are crazy or anything like that. I just offered up for debate the question, what is too much. At what point is the manufactuare taking advantage of the consumer? And you took that and ran with it. Making the comment, why complain..if you don't like it then don't buy it and so on. Are you telling me that because you like Padron that there is no limit to what you will spend? That they can offer up a $40 turd and you will buy it just because it has his name on it. To me, you showed more ignorance in your post than anything. Oh, I'll buy or pay anything because its padron!

Mike

Woooohhh, easy brother! Looks to me that Jonesy was just stating his opinion, just as you were. No need to get uppity about it, they're just cigars...

 

[jfields]

Let's just say this cigar cost Padron $13.00 each to produce. Which may not be too far off by the time you consider the extra care involved in growing/selecting/harvesting, and attending to the tobacco for five years while it ages. Then you only have one specially trained roller, special bands, boxes, and then importation of the product.

Last but not least, is the retailers price mark up matrix to condsider before it gets to the consumer.

When time and energy are involved to create an exceptional product, an exceptional price tag logically follows. Although, I don't really feel like the Padrons are gouging, as it was suggested. I think they have really created a superior product that will have great demand. Like Jonesy said, if you don't like what the final cost is, then don't buy it.

The Padrons have a responsibility as buisnessmen to make a good profit.

I smoked my first 40th last night, and I would not ever have a problem forking out another $25.00 for one of these babies again. I can't wait to drop the money to get my hands on the 80th.

 

[jfields]

Wow! A lot took place while I was adding my post.

Mike I am not sure what your problem is, but Brian did not put anything in there that I see as smart assed. "If you don't want to spend the money on it, or plan on griping about the price, the solution is simple.........Don't buy one, or complain about the price of it."

If the above is what you are speaking of, then you need to grow a little thicker skin. You're the one that was so hip on starting a debate in the first place.

I'd be in a world of shit if I got my back up everytime someone told me, "If you don't like the price, then don't buy it."

 

[cigar smoke]

The bottom line is "to each his own", everyone has a wallet and a limit to what they will spend on a cigar. Suppy/demand the history of similar product and actual production costs will dictate the asking price of a cigar. The success of the other limited Padrons would predict the MSRP $30 price tag for the new 80th editions. Personally I am going to purchase a box.

Bob

 

[Infinity]

jonesy, you have a smart $%^ mouth!!This isn't the first time that you have typed something that was being smart and wasn't needed.

What I gave is my opinion on something and thats it. Nowhere in my post did I say, all you guys are crazy or anything like that. I just offered up for debate the question, what is too much. At what point is the manufactuare taking advantage of the consumer? And you took that and ran with it. Making the comment, why complain..if you don't like it then don't buy it and so on. Are you telling me that because you like Padron that there is no limit to what you will spend? That they can offer up a $40 turd and you will buy it just because it has his name on it. To me, you showed more ignorance in your post than anything. Oh, I'll buy or pay anything because its padron!

Mike

edit to add: Why sell a cigar for $30 when people like you will pay $50? Would you still be okay with it? If so, then that's fine, to each his own. which I said in an earlier post. This wasn't about a pissing contest just a couple of questions.

Mike, sorry you got beaten up this morning, you should have called me for help. :sign: However, no need to take it out on jonesy's post where, as far as I can see, he said nothing that should offend you.
In fact, I totally agree with what he is saying and that is, Padron's have a reputation for consistency, it's not about price, it's about wanting that consistency. If you don't want to pay the price, move on.

and...oh John..."If you don't like the price, then don't buy it." :laugh:

Brian

 

[moki]

That's my point Fat. The price is there because people will pay it and because of that they will come out with another limited release next year that will cost more money.

So you are aware of what it costs Padron to make these cigars? It seems to me that you're saying that there is no difference between a this cigar, and their regular line of very reasonably priced cigars. Is that correct?

And yes, of course, there will at some point be another limited edition/limited release cigar. It may be for more money, it may not.

And to Moki, you only focused on one example of mine which was the playstation. I agree/admit that I don't know much about the manufacturing of the PS3 but what about my other examples? Also, I hope you see this as a friendly exchange of thoughts and ideas.

I could focus on the other examples, too, but I didn't want to be quite that pedantic. My point was that some of the notions you have in terms of profit margins, etc. are just not correct, and the Playstation 3 was merely a convenient example to pick. It's important that you see this because it seems to be the foundation around which you've constructed some of your opinions on such things.

In other words, you seem to think that manufacturers like Sony are getting rich on each unit they sell, due to a ridiculous profit margin, and people who buy the PS3 are suckers who have more money than sense. It's just important to note that the former half of this notion is incorrect, Sony loses money on each PS3 sold, so it might be time to re-evaluate the latter half of this equation as well.

I could mention the similar situation with the iPhone, in which Apple gets a cut of each contract signed up by AT&T, but let's bring this back to cigars. The concept above is important, because I have it on good authority that the information I posted here is correct regarding Opus X cigars, their profit margins, and their purpose.

edit to add: You didn't answer my last question. What is enough? At what point do you draw the line and think the manufacture is getting over? If they come out with a 100year anniversary cigar and charge 60 bucks would that be okay?

They can charge whatever they want; I found the $500 per cigar Habanos SA charged for the Cohiba Behikes to be ridiculous, so I didn't buy any. Collectors snapped 'em up, though... so why begrudge the manufacturer for putting out such a product?

 

[audilicious]

Anyone know a B&M in SoCal selling singles????? No luck anywhere I've tried.....me want one!

Yep, just picked one up Friday. There's only a few left.

David's Gift's & Tobacco
Rancho Cucamonga

 

[insight]

After the end of the year bonus comes through I will be all over these. I paid for the millenniums, why not these?

 

[tsmckenney]

But from a business perspective, it would be foolhearty to sell a cigar for $15 when you can get $30 for it. It is what the market will bear. Ask yourself why would a ticket scalper sell a ticket to the Superbowl for face value when he can get 5-10X that price (because someone will pay it).

JMHO

Ken

Some ignorant part of me would like to believe that the cigar industry is better than that. Because their customers are better than that. I don't think anyone on here would disagree that the cigar community/culture is something unique. Ken, I think you're example proved your point well. It's also a fitting example for mine. I don't believe the cigar industry is lead by scumbags like ticket scalpers. To be in business and to make money doesn't have to mean charging 5-10X just because you can get it.

Orlando and Jorge Padron, Litto Gomez, the Fuente family, John Oliva.... Many of us have met one or more of these producers. We've read about them as well. They make their money, but more importantly they love what they do. I personally feel most cigar producers get more enjoyment from presenting excellent blends than they do cashing a check.

My $0.02.

 

[Jonesy]

jonesy, you have a smart $%^ mouth!!This isn't the first time that you have typed something that was being smart and wasn't needed.

Kinda uncalled for don't you think seeing you tend to follow my posts and add your smart assed remarks towards me for some reason.

What I gave is my opinion on something and thats it.

That's all I was doing also

Nowhere in my post did I say, all you guys are crazy or anything like that. I just offered up for debate the question, what is too much. At what point is the manufactuare taking advantage of the consumer? And you took that and ran with it.

If you offered something up for debate, then why say that a person that responds to you has a "smart ass mouth"

Making the comment, why complain..if you don't like it then don't buy it and so on. Are you telling me that because you like Padron that there is no limit to what you will spend? That they can offer up a $40 turd and you will buy it just because it has his name on it. To me, you showed more ignorance in your post than anything. Oh, I'll buy or pay anything because its padron!

Mike

I enjoy Padron's more than any other brand of cigar that I've smoked so how exactly is it that I'm showing ignorance? I was giving my opinion....so you're saying that if someone gives their opinion on something, it means that they're showing ignorance?

edit to add: Why sell a cigar for $30 when people like you will pay $50? Would you still be okay with it? If so, then that's fine, to each his own. which I said in an earlier post. This wasn't about a pissing contest just a couple of questions.

If this was your company and you thought you could get $30 for something that cost you $15 to make would you not sell it for $30? If not, that's where the ignorance you talk about would kick in. No one has turned this into a pissing contest.....yet ....although I could have run with the comment you made about me and my smart assed mouth , but I won't.