OR Anejo #49

[NullSmurf]

Character is built on what you did, not what you meant or said. Needs a little work.

 

[jfields]

Character is built on what you did, not what you meant or said. Needs a little work.

You said it! Those examples I gave were just a few there are others that I am encouraging to come forward on their own as not to betray any trust. Maybe you have some good intentions on a few things Ed, but the bad seems to be coming out of the wood work.

 

[moki]

I enjoy cigars, just like I enjoy cars. It is something to pass time and enjoy myself doing it. I did a group buys in the past because I was able to get some cigars that others were not able to. I thought I would help out by getting it for some people. Maybe I should not have, but I did it because people hooked me up with things in the past. I was trying to pay it forward.

Cigars are a great hobby, and an enjoyable pastime to enjoy. I think that sometimes people get too caught up in cigars as a status symbol that they sometimes do less than rational things when "chasing" them.

There's nothing wrong with seeking out a rare cigar to enjoy, if it gives you pleasure to do so. But there's no reason to attempt to bolster your status by what cigars you have or can obtain.

I've seen it time and time again... people chase the next holy grail cigar (I've done it myself, too). Or they decide to very publicly "sell off their NC cigars" or other nonsensical things for the attention and status they feel it infers.

This will be short lived. The reality is that cigars are just something to help you relax with friends, or introspectively reflect as you enjoy them.

Original Release

 

[moki]

I received this via PM on CF today; I figured I might as well post my response here.

What are you talking about? Bad plague?
Those are indeed OR Anejo and why are you comparing me w/ such on the scum list?

The address you used to conduct your sale is the exact same address used by the scumbag:

John M Kruthoffer
2117 Broadhead Pl
Lexington, KY 40515-1108

David Scott aka-Smokinj
2117 Broadhead Place
Lexington, KY. 40515

Nice try sir. You've been busted.

/andrew

 

[stepthirteen]

It's unfortunate some of you got taken advantage of, however it was bound to happen, and as unfortunate as it is, it had to happen. This is a great example of why sales/trades/gb's are constantly watched and questioned...

Some of you didn't understand why I came down on one of Ed's last sales on CP, where he sold his friends collection of cigars (a friend who is not a member of CP) . There is absolutely no history of those cigars, we're simply supposed to take Ed's word on where the cigars came from and that they were all stored properly? When did Ed suddenly become the know-all of cigars? There have been some questionable trades recently, as jfields has pointed out. This is a community, and as a community things that can negatively affect other members in this community will be dealt with publicly. My question is why does someone feel the need to buy/sell so many cigars? Is it a hobby or is it something else?

It's a sad day when you find out someone has decided to secretly recruit members from CP to purposely skirt around our rules. Doing something like that is BLATANTLY using this community to your advantage, saying "fuck you CP, I'm going to do what I please and I'm going to recruit as many members as I can". That just doesn't sit well with me. I could care less if someone wants to start a cigar forum or do trades privately. If you want to start a cigar forum, do it ethically. However when someone privately recruits our members to start a private trading forum because there is too much "BS" on CP, then you don't belong here!

Let's get to the bottom of this. There is a "hidden" forum on Ed's site. Is that a problem? Absolutely not. Is it a problem that he is recruiting CP members in order to skirt around our rules? ABSOLUTELY! For you naysayers who think the private forum is made up, have a look: http://www.cigarophile.com/forum/ Funny that all of the members who log into his forum are also CP members (or "founding members").

I will not tolerate this type of behavior, don't like CP? Get the fuck out!

This has gone really bad in a bad way! I am a "founding" member of Ed's Forum. Did I join there because I wanted to say Fuck CP? For the love of God no! I joined because a few of the founding members had just met and had a great time at a HERF in New York. Not because I had disdain for CP and the awesome community here.

I am saddened that it is implied that ALL the "founding members" of that new forum would be looked at as the Fuck CP crew. I am going to stay here because I have stepped on my dick more than any of these guys have in this thread and have managed to forge ahead and develop some awesome relationships with people. I have never once bad mouthed this board on that forum, ever, so to imply that I do is simply wrong.

These purchases where done via email/telephone not on any board. No rules where skirted I chose to take a risk I should not have and I will most likely eat a grand for my mistake, but I will own the fact I deserve to lose the money because I made a hasty and irrational purchase without asking for more information and help from others. I will also remain here and in the future I will make dam sure I know the provenance of any purchase I make in the future. It cost me a G, but it was a valuable lesson.

Jim

 

[moki]

I received this via PM on CF today; I figured I might as well post my response here.

What are you talking about? Bad plague?
Those are indeed OR Anejo and why are you comparing me w/ such on the scum list?

The address you used to conduct your sale is the exact same address used by the scumbag:

John M Kruthoffer
2117 Broadhead Pl
Lexington, KY 40515-1108

David Scott aka-Smokinj
2117 Broadhead Place
Lexington, KY. 40515

Nice try sir. You've been busted.

/andrew

Well, this was slightly unexpected:

http://www.indianasmostwanted.com/warrant/02.409167

Link for the Po-Po

 

[CigarStone]

Guy,
There is really nothing I can do to express how bad I feel for this to happen. By no means was any of this done on purpose. I made a mistake and I must live with it now. Jfields as for your post about the MAWPIF, it was an honest mistake that I did not look at the cigar closely enough. As for private boards, it was created for some of us to talk somewhere instead of pms and emails. I did not recruit members there to bash CP. Yes I do not agree with how some things are done here, but I do agree with the message behind it all.

Right now the only thing left is for this to be straightened out quickly and effectively. I love CP. I met some great people and have some true friends because of it. I enjoy cigars, just like I enjoy cars. It is something to pass time and enjoy myself doing it. I did a group buys in the past because I was able to get some cigars that others were not able to. I thought I would help out by getting it for some people. Maybe I should not have, but I did it because people hooked me up with things in the past. I was trying to pay it forward. I know that it might seem that I was doing something shady, but I do not. I do not make money on cigars, nor do I plan to. I enjoy the camaraderie that comes with communities like this. I am glad to travel to meet some of you, and I have, and hopefully will continue to.

I am truly sorry for anything and everything that was done to harm this community. I really do not know what else to say except I am sorry for what I thought would help, ended up hurting the community. I hope to share a smoke with many people here.

Sincerely,
Ed

Keep this in mind.....even if every word you said here is true, you have hit CP like a "rare and HTF buying and selling wizard" and you have dragged many with you on an out of control spree. This all lead to numerous senior members doling out good solid advice in the form of "slow down guys" and getting grief back for their guidance.

So regardless of your intent, you have lead people astray, you have indirectly or directly been influential in some of the worst Peyton Pace bull shit I have seen on CP in my two + years here, and there are a handful of guys you have befriended who are still pissing up a rope with the senior members here.

Edited to add....For those of you to young to know what the reference to Peyton Place is....."Peyton Place" has become an expression to describe a place whose inhabitants have sordid secrets.

 

[stepthirteen]

I received this via PM on CF today; I figured I might as well post my response here.

What are you talking about? Bad plague?
Those are indeed OR Anejo and why are you comparing me w/ such on the scum list?

The address you used to conduct your sale is the exact same address used by the scumbag:

John M Kruthoffer
2117 Broadhead Pl
Lexington, KY 40515-1108

David Scott aka-Smokinj
2117 Broadhead Place
Lexington, KY. 40515

Nice try sir. You've been busted.

/andrew

Well, this was slightly unexpected:

http://www.indianasmostwanted.com/warrant/02.409167

Ouch!

Jim

 

[grateful1]

Looks like the one your parents warned you about!

 

[BlindedByScience]

Jfields, I don't know you, but I do know that you are assuming way too much. The fact that some of us friends talk on Ed's blog is in no way indicative of what you are asserting. It is no different than the chat crew on mibbet. This GB was not organized on that board. It was organized by email. I have never made one derogatory comment about CP. I am also not running to anyone here.
Lee

My point is that just because a few of us (not everyone there is even from CP) talk on another board (which, as I understand it, is connected to his blog) does not mean anything. I could just as easily referenced CigarSnobs, since some members here go there and badmouth Rod and CP. I do believe Anthony at least had enough integrity to go over and make a statement.

David Hume said;

"When men are most sure and arrogant they are commonly most mistaken, giving views to passion without that proper deliberation which alone can secure them from the grossest absurdities."

I would consider putting down the shovel and taking a less defensive posture for a while. Of course, all the solid advice you've been given so far has been ignored so I won't hold my breath.

One guy's opinion - B.B.S.

 

[Toasted Coastie]

I received this via PM on CF today; I figured I might as well post my response here.

What are you talking about? Bad plague?
Those are indeed OR Anejo and why are you comparing me w/ such on the scum list?

The address you used to conduct your sale is the exact same address used by the scumbag:

John M Kruthoffer
2117 Broadhead Pl
Lexington, KY 40515-1108

David Scott aka-Smokinj
2117 Broadhead Place
Lexington, KY. 40515

Nice try sir. You've been busted.

/andrew

This person is on Puff, CigarOutcasts and CigarHops as well.

 

[moki]

This person is on Puff, CigarOutcasts and CigarHops as well.

http://whitepages.yellowpages.com/results....KY&qz=40515

 

[siriusstoogie]

Hey Ed,

I met you, I like you, and that you're a good BOTL! I think you like to enjoy cigars albeit you've gotten into it for what a year maybe be two? Here's some advice, enjoy the cigars that you have, enjoy CP but slow the FUCK DOWN and don't chase the holy grail! For all you know, your palate has not developed to fully appreciate if it's an OR this or a Limited that when compared to JFRs. HERF more, do BST/GB at lot LESS

You set a flight angle that was sure to stall, I tried to warn you when we herfed.



Joe

 

[tsmckenney]

For all you know, your palate has not developed to fully appreciate if it's an OR this or a Limited that when compared to JFRs.

You know your palate has fully developed when someone asks what you're smoking and you reply...

"I don't know."

There's a little something I picked up from a FOG.

 

[moki]

Okay, so we know that this smokinj/usmcsmokinj guy is a one in the same scumbag as abehoff aka jm9er aka markallenville aka thebillboardman who participated in various scams on various cigar sites, as well as Yahoo auctions (when cigars were still allowed for sale) using his 'Cigargirl' girlfriend to hawk the cigars.

He's an unknown who came out of the blue to sell OR Añejo cigars, and has engaged in a number of more "normal" trades with people to lend himself some credibility and establish confidence. This is a typical MO.

We know this because despite the fact that he used the name "David Scott" for the transactions (which were doing via PayPal), the address he used matches the address for John Kruthoffer (who incidentally also has an arrest warrant out for him in Indiana).

But this information aside, how can we come to suspect the cigars and the seller? I think it's instructive to try to learn from this experience. There are a few key points:

-- Someone coming out of nowhere isn't going to just start selling OR Añejos. They won't even know what they are unless they've participated in various online communities

-- Selling cigars on Wade's (OnlineHumidor.com). Very few people outside of CF members know about Wade's.

-- The cigars have an oily sheen to them that makes them appear relatively new production

-- The bands on the cigars appear pristine and new, while the cello is incredibly aged. Whatever process chemically altered the cello in that manner (sunlight, oils, time) would have affected the bands as well.

-- The cello has been crinkled in the extreme, indicating that the cigars have been removed and replaced several times

So what should you do if you're interested in buying such cigars?

1) If you don't know exactly what the cigars should be, ask someone who does before you buy

2) If you don't know the seller well, ask around. Chances are someone who has been around a while may know him; if they don't, that's a warning sign usually

3) Don't let your desire for a particular cigar overwhelm your common sense; if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is

4) Never pay high prices for cigars that are purported to be rare or limited release without knowing their provenance. Even if these cigars were what they are purported to be, they'd be worthless were they not stored well.

Below are some pictures that KingAntz took of the cigars; I hope he doesn't mind that I have posted them here for instructive purposes. The two Añejo bands are from a known OR Añejo (from a trusted CFer) which a yellowish band, and the other whiter banded cigar are the faux ORs from this group buy.

 

[moki]

You know your palate has fully developed when someone asks what you're smoking and you reply...

"I don't know."

There's a little something I picked up from a FOG.

In fairness, if you handed me an OR Añejo and a regular production one, I'd have a hard time out of the blue telling you that one was an OR. I'd probably just think it was an aged, good tasting Añejo. We're not talking about a radically different taste profile on these or anything.

 

[BigJake6904]

Jake, you know I think the world of you Bro, but your posts in this thread about not needing to "out the host", quite frankly, are very disappointing... regardless of intent. Something like this is more than just a couple of guys trying to recoup their money, it's also about looking out for the rest of the community so we know what or who to look out for. If the host did nothing wrong, then what does it matter? It's the origin that we're concerned about.

After taking a whole evening to back away and reflect, you're absolutely right Brian. I got caught up defending a position I perceived as only having the intent of protecting a friend since the originating source of the cigars in question was already made public. Since the cigars never made it to any other members outside of those of us involved, and that this was handled between the five of us via e-mail and phone, I didn't feel that anyone else had a dog in the race. Obviously, that was the wrong approach to take to the situation.

I wholeheartedly believe in one learning from their mistakes, and I believe everyone has learned a lesson here, whether they were directly involved or not.

Mr_Wolf, Tom, Brian, and everyone else...I apologize for being so defensive and not stepping away from the keyboard when I should have. I should have taken into account the best interest of the community as a whole, not just the immediate parties involved.

 

[ggiese]

I'm not dragging anyone in. If I did, the majority of the board would be brought in, as I see most all of you guys on every cigar board around. I don't mean anything derogative in referencing chat, just using it as an example. As a matter of fact, Jake has a voice chat channel to talk on and several do.

My point is that just because a few of us (not everyone there is even from CP) talk on another board (which, as I understand it, is connected to his blog) does not mean anything. I could just as easily referenced CigarSnobs, since some members here go there and badmouth Rod and CP. I do believe Anthony at least had enough integrity to go over and make a statement.

Really, Dullaney? You sure seem willing to step into dog poop without reservation... Do you know anything about anything, or how foolish you are with that statement? What do you know about CigarSnobs?

The absolute arrogance, sense of entitlement, disrespectful nonsensical rants and attacks, despite most of you being here for less than a year, have led to some serious cracks in CP's foundation. Many of those that would have been able to honestly assess your situation - BEFORE you invested a ton of money in a white elephant - have been pushed aside in favor of your selfish lusts. I don't have the discerning eye or palate to distinquish a OR from a '09 Anejo release, but I have enough knowledge to tell you that sending boatloads of cash in pursuit of OR's was an incredilby foolish move - likely to get you burned. I can count on one hand the number of individuals I'd trust that sale to - and this putz that sold them was not one of 'em.

This certainly will be a test of your collective character. I hope all of you have it in you to make it right - not with fistfuls of cigars, but with true understanding and deeper appreciation of the core CP FOG group - for the good of this community you purport to "love".

 

[bfisher88]

I'm not dragging anyone in. If I did, the majority of the board would be brought in, as I see most all of you guys on every cigar board around. I don't mean anything derogative in referencing chat, just using it as an example. As a matter of fact, Jake has a voice chat channel to talk on and several do.

My point is that just because a few of us (not everyone there is even from CP) talk on another board (which, as I understand it, is connected to his blog) does not mean anything. I could just as easily referenced CigarSnobs, since some members here go there and badmouth Rod and CP. I do believe Anthony at least had enough integrity to go over and make a statement.

Really, Dullaney? You sure seem willing to step into dog poop without reservation... Do you know anything about anything, or how foolish you are with that statement? What do you know about CigarSnobs?

The absolute arrogance, sense of entitlement, disrespectful nonsensical rants and attacks, despite most of you being here for less than a year, have led to some serious cracks in CP's foundation. Many of those that would have been able to honestly assess your situation - BEFORE you invested a ton of money in a white elephant - have been pushed aside in favor of your selfish lusts. I don't have the discerning eye or palate to distinquish a OR from a '09 Anejo release, but I have enough knowledge to tell you that sending boatloads of cash in pursuit of OR's was an incredilby foolish move - likely to get you burned. I can count on one hand the number of individuals I'd trust that sale to - and this putz that sold them was not one of 'em.

This certainly will be a test of your collective character. I hope all of you have it in you to make it right - not with fistfuls of cigars, but with true understanding and deeper appreciation of the core CP FOG group - for the good of this community you purport to "love".

Exactly. Well said! The bolded part is what I have been waiting for someone to bring up. Hopefully some of the older members will slowly start to come back despite all of this.

 

[Mr_Wolf]

Jake, you know I think the world of you Bro, but your posts in this thread about not needing to "out the host", quite frankly, are very disappointing... regardless of intent. Something like this is more than just a couple of guys trying to recoup their money, it's also about looking out for the rest of the community so we know what or who to look out for. If the host did nothing wrong, then what does it matter? It's the origin that we're concerned about.

After taking a whole evening to back away and reflect, you're absolutely right Brian. I got caught up defending a position I perceived as only having the intent of protecting a friend since the originating source of the cigars in question was already made public. Since the cigars never made it to any other members outside of those of us involved, and that this was handled between the five of us via e-mail and phone, I didn't feel that anyone else had a dog in the race. Obviously, that was the wrong approach to take to the situation.

I wholeheartedly believe in one learning from their mistakes, and I believe everyone has learned a lesson here, whether they were directly involved or not.

Mr_Wolf, Tom, Brian, and everyone else...I apologize for being so defensive and not stepping away from the keyboard when I should have. I should have taken into account the best interest of the community as a whole, not just the immediate parties involved.

Jake apology accepted. Just remember that backing your friends is nice & expensive mistakes are embarrassing, but try not to let it cloud your overall judgment when situations like these arise in the future. These tough economic times will bring out the sharks and we as a community need to circle the wagons, listen to the ones before us and protect our own.