OR Anejo #49

[moki]

Andrew you are correct. I had never thought about it in this way. Ed emailed me and said he had access to some OR opus being the person I am I said lets do it. Sent him some money along with others, I did not get in on the Anejo buy, bingo the fake cigars where delivered. I am going to think this over a bit......

It's up to you guys to decide whatever way you want to handle it. But the real culprit is the scumbag they were purchased from, not the guy who handled the money and shipped the cigars out. I'd seek my recompense there... but that's just me.

I can see others feeling differently, and that the person running the show should be held responsible, so... obviously whatever way you guys collectively decide to settle it is up to you.

 

[Swissy]

I guess I see it a little differently. If someone approached me with a deal like this, and I asked: are they legit? Do you know the source? and the answer was a 'Yes, they are and I do'... and I knew and trusted the person who approached me- then I would hold the person accountable.

however, if the person approached me, told me of the deal, and after I asked the same questions I got anything LESS than a solid 'Yes'... then that would be time to ask more questions, get involved with looking up the seller, do my research and so on. And in that case I would bear equal responsibility for the deal.

My take on the deal. (And yes... I always ask! Been there, been burned. Learned a hard lesson early on)

either way it sucks...

 

[BlindedByScience]

I mentioned this to KingAntz via PM, and I may as well express my opinion here as well.

If this was a true group buy, I think you all are out the money, and got collectively screwed.

If it was the case where an individual bought these cigars, and then resold them to you, then yes, I think he should reimburse you all. But if you all went in on the buy together as a group buy and got hustled... I'm not sure that the person who organized the buy should be left holding the bag.

I think each of the participants in this group buy likely waved their due diligence for the lure of picking up these rare cigars... and thus all really were "guilty"* of the same thing.

You were all collectively taken, IMHO, and all should bear the burden of the loss. I'm sure opinions will differ on this, but that's mine.

* I'm not saying any of these guys deserved to get fleeced, just that they all bear some responsibility here IMHO

....if everyone went willingly, I agree completely.

If the individual that organized the group buy vouched for the authenticity in any way, shape or form, it's a very different story.

 

[tone-ny]

I mentioned this to KingAntz via PM, and I may as well express my opinion here as well.

If this was a true group buy, I think you all are out the money, and got collectively screwed.

If it was the case where an individual bought these cigars, and then resold them to you, then yes, I think he should reimburse you all. But if you all went in on the buy together as a group buy and got hustled... I'm not sure that the person who organized the buy should be left holding the bag.

I think each of the participants in this group buy likely waved their due diligence for the lure of picking up these rare cigars... and thus all really were "guilty"* of the same thing.

You were all collectively taken, IMHO, and all should bear the burden of the loss. I'm sure opinions will differ on this, but that's mine.

* I'm not saying any of these guys deserved to get fleeced, just that they all bear some responsibility here IMHO

....if everyone went willingly, I agree completely.

If the individual that organized the group buy vouched for the authenticity in any way, shape or form, it's a very different story.

I agree if it was that scenario, the individual would be responsible.

 

[moki]

I guess I see it a little differently. If someone approached me with a deal like this, and I asked: are they legit? Do you know the source? and the answer was a 'Yes, they are and I do'... and I knew and trusted the person who approached me- then I would hold the person accountable.

however, if the person approached me, told me of the deal, and after I asked the same questions I got anything LESS than a solid 'Yes'... then that would be time to ask more questions, get involved with looking up the seller, do my research and so on. And in that case I would bear equal responsibility for the deal.

My take on the deal. (And yes... I always ask! Been there, been burned. Learned a hard lesson early on)

either way it sucks...

Yeah, I'm with you... I just think that each of the participants in this group buy likely waved their due diligence for the lure of picking up these rare cigars... and thus all really were "guilty"* of the same thing, and got collectively screwed.

But like I said, I can see the other side of the coin, and can't really argue if you think holding the organizer responsible is the right thing to do. It certainly would hopefully make people organizing group buys be a little more careful.

I just try to put myself in that situation, and I'm not sure that I'd wipe away any responsibility I had. I'd feel that "we" were screwed by the guy, not that the guy organizing the buy got screwed by the guy.

 

[Swissy]

I guess I see it a little differently. If someone approached me with a deal like this, and I asked: are they legit? Do you know the source? and the answer was a 'Yes, they are and I do'... and I knew and trusted the person who approached me- then I would hold the person accountable.

however, if the person approached me, told me of the deal, and after I asked the same questions I got anything LESS than a solid 'Yes'... then that would be time to ask more questions, get involved with looking up the seller, do my research and so on. And in that case I would bear equal responsibility for the deal.

My take on the deal. (And yes... I always ask! Been there, been burned. Learned a hard lesson early on)

either way it sucks...

Yeah, I'm with you... I just think that each of the participants in this group buy likely waved their due diligence for the lure of picking up these rare cigars... and thus all really were "guilty"* of the same thing, and got collectively screwed.

But like I said, I can see the other side of the coin, and can't really argue if you think holding the organizer responsible is the right thing to do. It certainly would hopefully make people organizing group buys be a little more careful.

I just try to put myself in that situation, and I'm not sure that I'd wipe away any responsibility I had. I'd feel that "we" were screwed by the guy, not that the guy organizing the buy got screwed by the guy.

Yup... it's up to each individual to look back and ask themselves -"Did I ask enough questions?" or were they blinded by the pot of gold at the end of the rainbow. It's easy to sit back and armchair quarterback this whole thing, but it'll boil down to each person involved doing a little soul searching and some hard questions asked of themselves.

 

[stepthirteen]

I clearly did not aks enough questions . I did however operate on the assumption that Ed performed the due diligence on the buy. He had acquired other HTF cigars from a few very trusted members of CF and so I simply assumed these where legit. Completely my error. I am prepared to pay a nice chunk of cash for the lesson.

I am currently evaluating my thoughts on many things related to the hobby in the hopes that I return to the simple pleasure of smoking cigars, sharing the hobby with others, and enjoying the company of those who share my passion nothing more and nothing less. I have to say again thank you because this has indeed opened my eyes to the benefits of open minded thinking and humility.

Jim

 

[LilBastage]

I mentioned this to KingAntz via PM, and I may as well express my opinion here as well.

If this was a true group buy, I think you all are out the money, and got collectively screwed.

If it was the case where an individual bought these cigars, and then resold them to you, then yes, I think he should reimburse you all. But if you all went in on the buy together as a group buy and got hustled... I'm not sure that the person who organized the buy should be left holding the bag.

I think each of the participants in this group buy likely waved their due diligence for the lure of picking up these rare cigars... and thus all really were "guilty"* of the same thing.

You were all collectively taken, IMHO, and all should bear the burden of the loss. I'm sure opinions will differ on this, but that's mine.

* I'm not saying any of these guys deserved to get fleeced, just that they all bear some responsibility here IMHO

....if everyone went willingly, I agree completely.

If the individual that organized the group buy vouched for the authenticity in any way, shape or form, it's a very different story.

I think when you set up a group buy or any other deal you are pretty much vouching for the source. Why would you invite anyone else if you weren't sure of the source and the authenticity of the cigars?

If you're not 100% sure of the source and the cigars you shouldn't be running group buys.

I realize participants enter into these things willingly and there's a need to ask questions if you aren't sure, but I believe the organizer holds the ultimate responsibility. He's saying "trust me" to all the others. Without that, there's no GB.

Just my opinion (and why I don't get involved in very many GBs).

 

[BobbyRitz]

If a friend of mine brought an buying opportunity to me, I would naturally assume he is vouching for authenticity of the cigars. Given the facts here, it seems that Ed brought the buy to the group. He made the decision himself without discussing source, provenance, etc. with the group.

If he had said, "OK guys, the cigars are being sourced from XYZ and here is what I know about the cigars..." I would wholeheartedly agree with Andrew that the group collectively made the decision to participate in the purchase. But as I understand the facts, I believe this problem was brought on by Ed without any group consultation.

EDIT: This is just my opinion. Obviously, the group needs to speak about this and come up with their own resolution.

 

[grateful1]

If a friend of mine brought an buying opportunity to me, I would naturally assume he is vouching for authenticity of the cigars. Given the facts here, it seems that Ed brought the buy to the group. He made the decision himself without discussing source, provenance, etc. with the group. (or anyone else!)

If he had said, "OK guys, the cigars are being sourced from XYZ and here is what I know about the cigars..." I would wholeheartedly agree with Andrew that the group collectively made the decision to participate in the purchase. But as I understand the facts, I believe this problem was brought on by Ed without any group consultation.

EDIT: This is just my opinion. Obviously, the group needs to speak about this and come up their own resolution.

Ding ding ding!

 

[moki]

If a friend of mine brought an buying opportunity to me, I would naturally assume he is vouching for authenticity of the cigars. Given the facts here, it seems that Ed brought the buy to the group. He made the decision himself without discussing source, provenance, etc. with the group.

If he had said, "OK guys, the cigars are being sourced from XYZ and here is what I know about the cigars..." I would wholeheartedly agree with Andrew that the group collectively made the decision to participate in the purchase. But as I understand the facts, I believe this problem was brought on by Ed without any group consultation.

EDIT: This is just my opinion. Obviously, the group needs to speak about this and come up their own resolution.

If the above is the case, then I agree with you... Ed should be held responsible. I wasn't aware that this was how it transpired.

 

[Swissy]

I clearly did not aks enough questions . I did however operate on the assumption that Ed performed the due diligence on the buy. He had acquired other HTF cigars from a few very trusted members of CF and so I simply assumed these where legit. Completely my error. I am prepared to pay a nice chunk of cash for the lesson.

I am currently evaluating my thoughts on many things related to the hobby in the hopes that I return to the simple pleasure of smoking cigars, sharing the hobby with others, and enjoying the company of those who share my passion nothing more and nothing less. I have to say again thank you because this has indeed opened my eyes to the benefits of open minded thinking and humility.

Jim

Jim,
I liked this... a lot. I'd be happy to sit and smoke a cigar with ya! :thumbs:
Just no OR Opus, ok? :whistling:

 

[insight]

I clearly did not aks enough questions . I did however operate on the assumption that Ed performed the due diligence on the buy. He had acquired other HTF cigars from a few very trusted members of CF and so I simply assumed these where legit. Completely my error. I am prepared to pay a nice chunk of cash for the lesson.

I am currently evaluating my thoughts on many things related to the hobby in the hopes that I return to the simple pleasure of smoking cigars, sharing the hobby with others, and enjoying the company of those who share my passion nothing more and nothing less. I have to say again thank you because this has indeed opened my eyes to the benefits of open minded thinking and humility.

Jim

Jim,
I liked this... a lot. I'd be happy to sit and smoke a cigar with ya! :thumbs:
Just no OR Opus, ok? :whistling:

Snob!

 

[haguc]

I think that Macion Grey's sigtag sums up a lot of the issues that have happened around here:

"Do not spoil what you have by desiring what you have not;
remember that what you now have was once among the things
you only hoped for.
-Epicurus"

I think seeing what has transpired will help a lot of members who have been always chasing to take on the spirit that Jim describes in his post.

I am currently evaluating my thoughts on many things related to the hobby in the hopes that I return to the simple pleasure of smoking cigars, sharing the hobby with others, and enjoying the company of those who share my passion nothing more and nothing less. I have to say again thank you because this has indeed opened my eyes to the benefits of open minded thinking and humility.

 

[Mike33]

You know, isn't Ed the one who bought a large lot of cigars from somebody on another board that included a Cohiba perfecto among other questionable cigars? I know I personally found the thread talking about those cigars odd and very suspect.

I think that to put all the blame on Ed in this situation isn't really fair, as the other members should have known what they were getting into. Based on that thread with the Cohiba, I personally would not have dealt with Ed on any group buys or sales in general. If you participate in a group buy with someone who has previously purchased questionable cigars, how much responsibility do you put on the GB host and not on yourself?

 

[nhcigarfan]

In regard to the shellac health issue, it is a natural product (basically it's beetle crap). They use it in a lot of food products, for example the apples you buy in the supermarket are coated in shellac to make them shiny. Not sure how harmful it would be smoked, but I wouldn't worry too much about the cigars already smoked (although I would not smoke any more).

That is ASS-U-ME-ING it is in fact shellac. Hard to tell what the chowderhead was doing. Maybe he used pre-yellowed cello - maybe he shellacked 'em. Or - maybe he used some kind of other concoction to get the yellow...
In any regard - knowing they're not OR Anejo's, and not knowing from whence they came , I'd be hard pressed to smoke 'em...

Like Zappa said, don't eat the yellow snow.

Edit - also, as far as the blame game goes I agree. If you set it up and invite it doesn't matter if you buy the cigars for the deal or pull the out of your cooler, you own them.

If it's a group buy then buyer beware.

 

[tomthirtysix]

You know, isn't Ed the one who bought a large lot of cigars from somebody on another board that included a Cohiba perfecto among other questionable cigars? I know I personally found the thread talking about those cigars odd and very suspect.

I think that to put all the blame on Ed in this situation isn't really fair, as the other members should have known what they were getting into. Based on that thread with the Cohiba, I personally would not have dealt with Ed on any group buys or sales in general. If you participate in a group buy with someone who has previously purchased questionable cigars, how much responsibility do you put on the GB host and not on yourself?

Many of the cigars in that buy came under member scrutiny. But they all had an interesting story...

 

[rawrr]

You know, isn't Ed the one who bought a large lot of cigars from somebody on another board that included a Cohiba perfecto among other questionable cigars? I know I personally found the thread talking about those cigars odd and very suspect.

From that thread, I think those cigars were came from someone in this board.

 

[moki]

You know, isn't Ed the one who bought a large lot of cigars from somebody on another board that included a Cohiba perfecto among other questionable cigars? I know I personally found the thread talking about those cigars odd and very suspect.

I'm aware of where those cigars came from... the guy is absolutely dependable; any fake cigars that were in there were told to SPIVY that they were fake, and the history behind them.

 

[stepthirteen]

I clearly did not aks enough questions . I did however operate on the assumption that Ed performed the due diligence on the buy. He had acquired other HTF cigars from a few very trusted members of CF and so I simply assumed these where legit. Completely my error. I am prepared to pay a nice chunk of cash for the lesson.

I am currently evaluating my thoughts on many things related to the hobby in the hopes that I return to the simple pleasure of smoking cigars, sharing the hobby with others, and enjoying the company of those who share my passion nothing more and nothing less. I have to say again thank you because this has indeed opened my eyes to the benefits of open minded thinking and humility.

Jim

Jim,
I liked this... a lot. I'd be happy to sit and smoke a cigar with ya! :thumbs:
Just no OR Opus, ok? :whistling:

I would also enjoy having a smoke with you. I am very sure it will not include any OR opus from humidor anyway .

Jim