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Newbie Pass 101

The web site at Vitolas is bitter,sweet for me... They have great info. on all AF sticks, and it's the number one place for getting prices on them.

However, every time I look at the pages of cigars, my mouth starts to salivate. Next thing I know, the house furniture is overturned, coin jars are smashed, and Im returning bottle to get the scratch to try and buy some of those beautiful gems. Great site. Damn you Vitolas ! :D
 
Just for clarification...I thought the Padron Anniversary lines had some rarity as well. Not as rare as Anejo? Would Padron Family Reserve be closer for rarity (but more expensive) to the Anejo?

Nope, none. I can go buy any stick from the padron anniv. line online at MSRP anytime of the year....except maybe the Pyramide or A (elusive suckers). Not even comparable to an anejo. Constant production vs. 1-2 limited releases per year....they aren't in the same "Tier."

PFR's are expensive...but not rare by any stretch.
 
It's not the double put on the first trade that has me concerned. It's the rarity associated with an anejo, and the constant availability of the padron.

I guess I should have read the P/T a little more closely. I didn't realize he was taking an Anejo for a Padron.
 
Just for clarification...I thought the Padron Anniversary lines had some rarity as well. Not as rare as Anejo? Would Padron Family Reserve be closer for rarity (but more expensive) to the Anejo?

Nope, none. I can go buy any stick from the padron anniv. line online at MSRP anytime of the year....except maybe the Pyramide or A (elusive suckers). Not even comparable to an anejo. Constant production vs. 1-2 limited releases per year....they aren't in the same "Tier."

PFR's are expensive...but not rare by any stretch.

Thanks for clearing that up. I don't know where I got the idea of them having rarity in my head.
 
I am willing to redo the puts and takes to this.

Take: Anejo # 46
Put: My Father Le Bjiou 1922 toro. I have this @ $10.15

Take: AF Hemmingway Classic
Put AF Work Of Art Maduro

Take: Outlaw Cigar Co. # 3 446
Put: Padron Delicias Maduro

Let me know it this is better/acceptable. I want to get this right so any advice is appreciated. I know that Jake said earlier that he was okay with the orginal, buts lets all agree as well.

Stan

Edited for the My father Le Bijou 1922
 
I am willing to redo the puts and takes to this.

Take: Anejo # 46
Put: My Father Le Bieu toro. I have this @ $10.15

Take: AF Hemmingway Classic
Put AF Work Of Art Maduro

Take: Outlaw Cigar Co. # 3 446
Put: Padron Delicias Maduro

Let me know it this is better/acceptable. I want to get this right so any advice is appreciated. I know that Jake said earlier that he was okay with the orginal, buts lets all agree as well.

Stan

Stan, that all looks good to me. Just a quick question, did you mean Le Bijou 1922 ?
 
I am willing to redo the puts and takes to this.

Take: Anejo # 46
Put: My Father Le Bieu toro. I have this @ $10.15

Take: AF Hemmingway Classic
Put AF Work Of Art Maduro

Take: Outlaw Cigar Co. # 3 446
Put: Padron Delicias Maduro

Let me know it this is better/acceptable. I want to get this right so any advice is appreciated. I know that Jake said earlier that he was okay with the orginal, buts lets all agree as well.

Stan

Stan, that all looks good to me. Just a quick question, did you mean Le Bijou 1922 ?

Yes I did mena a Le Bijou 1922. I have edited the orginal post.
Thanks for catching that. It has been a long day.
 
No problem, just happened to notice it. ;)
Long day indeed. That Out Law cigar sounds interesting... have fun with the smokes!
 
Take: Anejo # 46
Put: My Father Le Bjiou 1922 toro. I have this @ $10.15

I think you're in the same boat with the MF Le Bijou; unless I'm badly mistaken, its a under-put on rarity compared to the Anjeo.

I believe Dan is correct here.

For argument sake, if it were the puff-stuff edition would that qualify for rarity/rarity with the #46?

I agree that the My Father isn't a rare stick, but the almost $2.00 over-put might make up for the rarity factor.

IMHO, the Puff edition would be on the same rarity as the Anejo. There were only 300 boxes of the Puff edition made last year (or at least that is what Puff was told).


ETA - Do any of you guys have any information about #14 - Habanos Puros Seleccion Suprema Torpedo? I haven't been able to find a damn thing about it...
 
I agree that the My Father isn't a rare stick, but the almost $2.00 over-put might make up for the rarity factor.

DING DING DING!!!

ETA - Do any of you guys have any information about #14 - Habanos Puros Seleccion Suprema Torpedo? I haven't been able to find a damn thing about it...

It's a reasonably priced stick (like $6-$7ish I think). You'll pry have to dig to find the actual MSRP (I'm guesstimating)...but it is a decent stick worth a try.
 
I agree that the My Father isn't a rare stick, but the almost $2.00 over-put might make up for the rarity factor.

DING DING DING!!!
I think I'm finally starting to understand how this whole thing works now.

While the rules set forth at the beginning of the pass are rarity for rarity, price for price each put and take is handled on an individual basis at the discretion of the pass host. Meaning if the host, Jake in this case, really wants to a Le Bijou and doesn't mind trading a cigar with more rarity, an Anejo, then he can decide that the over-put on price makes up for the rarity. All that being said, as a general rule each put & take still needs to stand on it's own.

Personally, I kept getting hung up on the rarity for rarity, price for price rule and somewhat confusing that with the each P/T stands on it's own. I had it in my mind that if you're taking a rare smoke you have to put a rare smoke. Obviously if you want to virtually assure that your P/T will be approved this is what you should do, but in other passes these types of discussion (under putting on rarity and making up for it in price) would happen via PM with the pass host to avoid any sense of embarrassment (not that there should be any to begin with) that might be associated with having a P/T rejected.

I think I do have another question though as it relates to other passes. Do most passes have the rule regarding each P/T stands on it's own and if so is there a reason for it? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where if each P/T is treated as a trade between the host and the participant, then if both the host and participant are happy with a set of P/T's in which each wouldn't stand on their own as a fair trade but do as a collective trade, why that would be frowned upon.
 
I agree that the My Father isn't a rare stick, but the almost $2.00 over-put might make up for the rarity factor.

DING DING DING!!!
I think I'm finally starting to understand how this whole thing works now.

While the rules set forth at the beginning of the pass are rarity for rarity, price for price each put and take is handled on an individual basis at the discretion of the pass host. Meaning if the host, Jake in this case, really wants to a Le Bijou and doesn't mind trading a cigar with more rarity, an Anejo, then he can decide that the over-put on price makes up for the rarity. All that being said, as a general rule each put & take still needs to stand on it's own.

Personally, I kept getting hung up on the rarity for rarity, price for price rule and somewhat confusing that with the each P/T stands on it's own. I had it in my mind that if you're taking a rare smoke you have to put a rare smoke. Obviously if you want to virtually assure that your P/T will be approved this is what you should do, but in other passes these types of discussion (under putting on rarity and making up for it in price) would happen via PM with the pass host to avoid any sense of embarrassment (not that there should be any to begin with) that might be associated with having a P/T rejected.

I think I do have another question though as it relates to other passes. Do most passes have the rule regarding each P/T stands on it's own and if so is there a reason for it? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where if each P/T is treated as a trade between the host and the participant, then if both the host and participant are happy with a set of P/T's in which each wouldn't stand on their own as a fair trade but do as a collective trade, why that would be frowned upon.

I don't think it really has to do with if Jake (or any pass host) really wants a certain stick or not, it has more to do with if you want a HTF cigar and you are going to put in a regular production cigar, then you (as the pass participant) need to make sure that you make up for the rarity with some additional cost. Of course the pass host will always have final say as to if they think the price difference makes up for the rarity of the cigar.

From what I have read in past passes, the rules we are following are pretty standard. I think the reason that each P/T is considered on it's own is because of potential over-puts.

If a P/T is treated as a "bundle deal" then you can essentially put in one really expensive stick and a few "yard-gars" to make the P/T "bundle" equal out. Then you would probably get say 3 premium sticks for the price of one super premuim stick and 2 yard-gars.

For example:

Put - Opus Lost City Lancero (2010) - $31.00
Take - Anejo Shark - 10.25

Put - Puros Indios $1.75
Take - Opus Reserva D'Chateau 14.00

Put - AF Curly Head 2.50
Take - Diamond Crown Maximus Double Robusto - 10.85

Total "Put" value - 35.25
Total "Take" value - 35.10

If you were to take the whole "bundle" into consideration, then the prices actually come out to a $0.15 over-put on your part. But if you look at each individual P/T as it's own transaction, there is only one P/T that would work. Not that any BOTL here would ever consider doing these P/T in a real pass, but you get the idea. Obviously this is a worst case type of thing.. :)

This is just the way that I would look at it. It could be a totally different reason, and I am just smoking crack...


Edited for clarity.
 
I agree that the My Father isn't a rare stick, but the almost $2.00 over-put might make up for the rarity factor.

DING DING DING!!!
I think I'm finally starting to understand how this whole thing works now.

While the rules set forth at the beginning of the pass are rarity for rarity, price for price each put and take is handled on an individual basis at the discretion of the pass host. Meaning if the host, Jake in this case, really wants to a Le Bijou and doesn't mind trading a cigar with more rarity, an Anejo, then he can decide that the over-put on price makes up for the rarity. All that being said, as a general rule each put & take still needs to stand on it's own.

Personally, I kept getting hung up on the rarity for rarity, price for price rule and somewhat confusing that with the each P/T stands on it's own. I had it in my mind that if you're taking a rare smoke you have to put a rare smoke. Obviously if you want to virtually assure that your P/T will be approved this is what you should do, but in other passes these types of discussion (under putting on rarity and making up for it in price) would happen via PM with the pass host to avoid any sense of embarrassment (not that there should be any to begin with) that might be associated with having a P/T rejected.

I think I do have another question though as it relates to other passes. Do most passes have the rule regarding each P/T stands on it's own and if so is there a reason for it? I'm having a hard time coming up with a scenario where if each P/T is treated as a trade between the host and the participant, then if both the host and participant are happy with a set of P/T's in which each wouldn't stand on their own as a fair trade but do as a collective trade, why that would be frowned upon.

I don't think it really has to do with if Jake (or any pass host) really wants a certain stick or not, it has more to do with if you want a HTF cigar and you are going to put in a regular production cigar, then you (as the pass participant) need to make sure that you make up for the rarity with some additional cost. Of course the pass host will always have final say as to if they think the price difference makes up for the rarity of the cigar.

From what I have read in past passes, the rules we are following are pretty standard. I think the reason that each P/T is considered on it's own is because of potential over-puts.

If a P/T is treated as a "bundle deal" then you can essentially put in one really expensive stick and a few "yard-gars" to make the P/T "bundle" equal out. Then you would probably get say 3 premium sticks for the price of one super premuim stick and 2 yard-gars.

For example:

Put - Opus Lost City Lancero (2010) - $31.00
Take - Anejo Shark - 10.25

Put - Puros Indios $1.75
Take - Opus Reserva D'Chateau 14.00

Put - AF Curly Head 2.50
Take - Diamond Crown Maximus Double Robusto - 10.85

Total "Put" value - 35.25
Total "Take" value - 35.10

If you were to take the whole "bundle" into consideration, then the prices actually come out to a $0.15 over-put on your part. But if you look at each individual P/T as it's own transaction, there is only one P/T that would work. Not that any BOTL here would ever consider doing these P/T in a real pass, but you get the idea. Obviously this is a worst case type of thing.. :)

This is just the way that I would look at it. It could be a totally different reason, and I am just smoking crack...


Edited for clarity.
That is also the way that I have been looking at it. On another note... I don't want to jinx anything, but this pass has been going very smoothly. More smoothly than passes with experienced members that I have followed. I am happy to have taken part in this pass.
 
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